NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #11

[Ashley123]

I think he was in jail when MW and ALC went missing. Not sure about 5/1/10 when SG went missing. It's kind of a stretch to think that he would bring the clothes to Gilgo and light them on fire. I don't know if I believe that.

Thanks for posting, Verity!

Chad Johnson was arrested in late may, 2010 and held without bail. His signature of how he handled the body is completely different also. He definitely appears to be a first timer...

 

[Ashley123]

more info on the johnson/papain case...

http://www.longislandpress.com/2011...sed-to-papain-murder-burned-clothes-at-gilgo/

 

[truthspider]

A friend of mine spoke to Jake Gyllenhaal on the subway the other day...just sayin...

subway sure, LIRR (railroad) is a different story.

there are no steadfast rules like this in life, I was simply pointing out that logistically it would be difficult to get to a house at oak beach via LIRR, and more difficult to put bodies on the side of a highway without one :waitasec:


BTW, have a hard time picturing chad johnson making racially derogatory remarks to the victims families. I read that article in newsday this morning and wondered if this wasn't simply a kid going away for murder anyway trying to catch some hype by alluding to being the LISK.

 

[inspctrgadget]

subway sure, LIRR (railroad) is a different story.

...I was simply pointing out that logistically it would be difficult to get to a house at oak beach via LIRR, and more difficult to put bodies on the side of a highway without one...

This is completely wrong, Truthspider. I know for a fact that many, in fact most people that live on the south shore of Long Island and work in NYC everyday use the LIRR to commute to work almost exclusively. And yes, this includes people in his income bracket that pay property taxes in excess of $20,000 a year. I personally know people exactly like this. Haven't you ever heard of a "station car", the beater that you use to get back and forth to the train station?

This person would ABSOLUTELY take his station car to the LIRR station at Babylon (15 minutes from OB?), park, and hop the train to the city, passing through Penn Station and arriving at the Port Authority. No question in my mind.

There is no way that someone who travels day in and day out to the city would do anything other than that. Taking a car would make it a 2.5 hour trip each way since traffic is horrendous during rush hours. Combine that with the snow, rain, tolls, accidents/rubbernecking, and a-hole drivers on the road, and you're looking at a stress filled life that's easily avoided using the rails. It's not logistically impossible. Logistically, its the only thing that makes sense!

So the connection to Penn Station and Port Authority is there. Now the question is whether the police can make a connection suitable for a search warrant.

I don't know where you're getting that I'm suggesting he didn't have/own a car. He probably has multiple cars.

On July 9, 2007 (MBB), he probably used his corporate car (which he probably had available to him and garaged in the city near his admin building). In the unlikely event that MBB traveled all the way back with him via the LIRR, he might have used his personal car that he took home from the station. If he hopped a taxi/limo home with MBB (unlikely) he probably used his second car for disposal.

Look, this can be verified by police. They can check to see if his regular pattern was to use the LIRR and subway (checking credit card purchases of train tickets, MTA card subway purchases/swipes) and then cross-check that to see if there was a one-way (to the Port Authority) on July 9, 2007. If there was, that means he probably came home in a corporate car, taxi or corporate taxi/limo service. They can check the EZ-Pass records of his corporate car to see if he indeed took his corporate car back to LI. If any part of his regular commuting pattern is out of the ordinary on that date, they can probably get a search warrant.

Here's the totality of evidence that might be used for a search warrant on the vehicles/property:

1) SK calls traced to Penn Station, Port Authority (fact reported by MSM)
2) POI's place of residence/work/travel tied to Oak Beach, Penn Station and Port Authority
3) Internet documentation of history with hiring prostitutes
4) History of violence towards women (Order of Protection)
5) Admitted history of drug problem
6) Hearsay evidence (interview the LA guy from LISK, others in OB)
7) Deviation of routine on the night of July 9, 2007 (if this can be demonstrated with electronic records)

 

[truthspider]

This is completely wrong, Truthspider. I know for a fact that many, in fact most people that live on the south shore of Long Island and work in NYC everyday use the LIRR to commute to work almost exclusively. And yes, this includes people in his income bracket that pay property taxes in excess of $20,000 a year. I personally know people exactly like this. Haven't you ever heard of a "station car", the beater that you use to get back and forth to the train station?

This person would ABSOLUTELY take his station car to the LIRR station at Babylon (15 minutes from OB?), park, and hop the train to the city, passing through Penn Station and arriving at the Port Authority. No question in my mind.

From everything I have read, he has never lived full time in oak beach, but rather lives in an apt in Manhattan. So I wouldn't start with the commuter premise unless I had some reason to believe he ever lived full time in oak beach.

Also, wouldn't riding Mass Transit for an hour with your intended victim be a really really big mistake? I don't think that behavior fits well with the extra care the SK took to never be seen with the 3 other G4 victims. When you are a daily commuter on the LIRR, the other daily commuters get to know you, or at the very least know your face. That would be a really backwards decision for this SK IMO. I spent 4 (unhappy) years riding the LIRR daily to manhattan, thank god those days are over.

Other than that, LE should question the $h1t out of him

 

[truthspider]

If we are dealing with one SK, what can we make of the pattern that prior to the G4, the SK seemed to be able to select his victims from a pool of people that no one was going to file a missing person's report for, but then (around 2007) he made the transition to targeting victims online, and those victims were people that were going to end up reported missing?

Prior to 2007 the SK may have had access to this pool of runaways or prostitutes but then lost that access. Can we come up with a list of possible places of employment where an SK may have had access to such a database of people?

I find it hard to imagine that the SK sifted through enough street walkers to find one that was very unlikely to ever be missed or reported missing. So did he have access to an inpatient list for some rehab or halfway house for runaways? If he did, why did he stop using that successful resource? reminds me of the statement "we don't treat rehab patients here"... the statement seems open to the idea that one of them did at one time treat rehab patients somewhere...

Yes, I have been googling my eyes out and No I have not been able to find a missing person report for a female with scars that match description of jane fasciotomy doe. except one, who may not fit the profile: sara anne wood March 4th 1981, missing Aug 18, 1993

 

[Clem Snide]

Wow, awfully quiet around here. While we're waiting for new leads lets try to come up with a catchy nickname for the Long Island Serial Killer. How does <modsnip> sound?

 

[Salem]

Hey Guys - please don't call names - not even of the perp. Using SK and LISK are fine because we don't know who this is, but other derogatory names will not be allowed.

Also, please DO NOT sleuth innocent people. Speculating is allowed where you are not naming names, but digging up the dirt and posting it on someone just because they live in the area or some rumor says they are involved somehow is absolutely against the rules.

Also - do not discuss private pm's or pm'ing each other in the threads. That is called "inviting" and is a direct violation of the TOS.

Please let me know if you have any questions and please alert any posts where there is sleuthing of an innocent person.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Negoish? Seriously, guys?

What's next...the Knights Templar?

 

[Clem Snide]

To be fair, Mountain Kat, I haven't read anything about the Knights of the Templar having been eliminated as a suspect.

I'm currently reading a book on the Green River Killer and in many instances pimps and prostitutes saw Ridgeway or his car and were able to give loose descriptions of him. In fact, there was at least one woman who ran away from him. Perhaps there should be a database where women in the sex industry could anonymously report John's that they have had a violent encounter with. There needs to be some way that people in the sex trade can trade information with LE with immunity. Especially in cases like this.

My hunch is that somebody somewhere knows something or has a suspicion (that often seems to be the case). That said, I bet it just seems too far fetched that anybody you know would be a serial killer without having lock solid proof.

 

[Seaslug44]

. There needs to be some way that people in the sex trade can trade information with LE with immunity. Especially in cases like this.

There are many websites in existence already for prostitutes to share info about bad/dangerous Johns. Nationalblacklist.com is the most popular

 

[goathairjones]

Here's an article from April that I don't recall seeing:

Long Island Murders: Sex Trafficking Ring Involved?

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/04/25/long-island-murders-sex-trafficking-ring-involved/

 

[goathairjones]

A couple of weeks ago there was some discussion on one of the Shannan Gilbert facebook pages about Shannan saying that "Mike" was trying to kill her and her 23 minute 911 call. That conversation was deleted shortly after it was posted. Also, there have been subsequent postings by Mari Gilber indicating that LE has told her not to reveal certain aspects of the case.

I think LE knows who is responsible. They just don't have enough evidence to go on. They also don't know who else is involved and don't want to pull the trigger too soon and let the rest of the sick bastards get away.

 

[shadowraiths]

Office of Justice Programs: Bureau of Justice Statistics
Duren Banks, Tracey Kyckelhahn
April 28, 2011 NCJ 233732

Describes the characteristics of human trafficking investigations, suspects, and victims in cases opened by federally funded task forces between January 2008 and June 2010. This report provides information about investigations, persons involved in suspected and confirmed incidents of human trafficking, and case outcomes. Data are from the Human Trafficking Reporting System (HTRS), which was created in response to a congressional mandate in the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2005 for biennial reporting on the scope and characteristics of human trafficking. HTRS is currently the only system that captures information on human trafficking investigations conducted by state and local law enforcement agencies in the United States. The report also describes HTRS data collection procedures and data quality issues.​

Full article: click here

* Federally funded task forces opened 2,515 suspected incidents of human trafficking for investigation between January 2008 and June 2010.

* About 8 in 10 of the suspected incidents of human trafficking were classified as sex trafficking, and about 1 in 10 incidents were classified as labor trafficking.

* Federal agencies were more likely to lead labor trafficking investigations (29%) than sex trafficking investigations (7%).

* Among the 389 incidents confirmed to be human trafficking by high data quality task forces—

– There were 488 suspects and 527 victims.

– More than half (62%) of the confirmed labor trafficking victims were age 25 or older, compared to 13% of confirmed sex trafficking victims.

– Confirmed sex trafficking victims were more likely to be white (26%) or black (40%), compared to labor trafficking victims, who were more likely to be Hispanic (63%) or Asian (17%).

– Four-fifths of victims in confirmed sex trafficking incidents were identified as U.S. citizens (83%), while most confirmed labor trafficking victims were identified as undocumented aliens (67%) or qualified aliens (28%).

– Most confirmed human trafficking suspects were male (81%). More than half (62%) of confirmed sex trafficking suspects were identified as black, while confirmed labor trafficking suspects were more likely to be identified as Hispanic (48%).​

* Among trafficking incidents opened for at least one year, 30% were confirmed to be human trafficking, 38% were confirmed not to be human trafficking, and the remaining incidents were still open at the end of the study period.

* The confirmed human trafficking incidents open for at least a year led to 144 known arrests.​

PDF Report: click here

 

[truthspider]

Office of Justice Programs: Bureau of Justice Statistics
Duren Banks, Tracey Kyckelhahn
April 28, 2011 NCJ 233732

Describes the characteristics of human trafficking investigations, suspects, and victims in cases opened by federally funded task forces between January 2008 and June 2010. This report provides information about investigations, persons involved in suspected and confirmed incidents of human trafficking, and case outcomes. Data are from the Human Trafficking Reporting System (HTRS), which was created in response to a congressional mandate in the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2005 for biennial reporting on the scope and characteristics of human trafficking. HTRS is currently the only system that captures information on human trafficking investigations conducted by state and local law enforcement agencies in the United States. The report also describes HTRS data collection procedures and data quality issues.​

Full article: click here

* Federally funded task forces opened 2,515 suspected incidents of human trafficking for investigation between January 2008 and June 2010.

* About 8 in 10 of the suspected incidents of human trafficking were classified as sex trafficking, and about 1 in 10 incidents were classified as labor trafficking.

* Federal agencies were more likely to lead labor trafficking investigations (29%) than sex trafficking investigations (7%).

* Among the 389 incidents confirmed to be human trafficking by high data quality task forces—

– There were 488 suspects and 527 victims.

– More than half (62%) of the confirmed labor trafficking victims were age 25 or older, compared to 13% of confirmed sex trafficking victims.

– Confirmed sex trafficking victims were more likely to be white (26%) or black (40%), compared to labor trafficking victims, who were more likely to be Hispanic (63%) or Asian (17%).

– Four-fifths of victims in confirmed sex trafficking incidents were identified as U.S. citizens (83%), while most confirmed labor trafficking victims were identified as undocumented aliens (67%) or qualified aliens (28%).

– Most confirmed human trafficking suspects were male (81%). More than half (62%) of confirmed sex trafficking suspects were identified as black, while confirmed labor trafficking suspects were more likely to be identified as Hispanic (48%).​

* Among trafficking incidents opened for at least one year, 30% were confirmed to be human trafficking, 38% were confirmed not to be human trafficking, and the remaining incidents were still open at the end of the study period.

* The confirmed human trafficking incidents open for at least a year led to 144 known arrests.​

PDF Report: click here

seriously awesome data shadowraiths....

one statistic I would love to have is how many female victims of sex trafficking are dismembered every year? or ever?

I suspect not too many. With so many dismembered females between gilgo state park, manorville, fire island, hempstead state park, on southern state parkway, etc. I still think the end of the road for these victims was meeting a serial killer, and not a hitman or run of the mill trafficker. If any of these victims were dismembered for any reason other than a serial killer's own personal gratification, then wouldn't the cross dressing asian male and other male victims be dismembered too? I think we are dealing with an aging serial killer and if any trafficking is involved its because he is playing the role of a customer.

 

[minazoe]

Here's an article from April that I don't recall seeing:

Long Island Murders: Sex Trafficking Ring Involved?

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/04/25/long-island-murders-sex-trafficking-ring-involved/

Here is the response I posted to the MSMagazine article

MS Magazine is an iconic publication. Please spell check this article or find an editor that is not asleep when it&#8217;s time to throw up a blogger's piece.

This case is about trafficking&#8230;but even if these girls are connected , it doesn&#8217;t mean there isn&#8217;t also a serial killer.

Kind of a catch 22.

A trafficker who murders more than 3 girls is a serial killer. It is unlikely that several traffickers have decided to dump their quarry on the same stretch of beach.

 

[*Indigo*]

Who we are looking for: (In my humble opinion)

* White older male, Long Island resident, who makes enough money to be able to regularly see prostitutes.
* Has an organised, planned methodical pattern - similar physical characteristics of victims, same method of killing, same method of disposal and distance between bodies, (500 metres apart), harrassment of victims' families.
* Intelligent enough to avoid detection through witnesses/sight, phone records, phone towers, has understanding of police proceedures.
* (IMHO) All evidence points to the killer having some kind of prior relationship with the victims.
* That the victims abandoned their usual safety precautions is a vital clue. These women were smart and usually cautious... What was it about him that made them drop their guard?????

 

[Seaslug44]

With so many dismembered females between gilgo state park, manorville, fire island, hempstead state park, on southern state parkway, etc. I still think the end of the road for these victims was meeting a serial killer, and not a hitman or run of the mill trafficker. If any of these victims were dismembered for any reason other than a serial killer's own personal gratification, then wouldn't the cross dressing asian male and other male victims be dismembered too?

I was thinking the same thing too TS back when I was considering the strong possibility that the victims were killed by soldiers in an organized crime family instead of by one person. It just did not make sense because gangsters don't usually go to the trouble to butcher prostitutes. Now I just discovered that there is one type of crime organization where beheading and dismembering is the NORM, not the exception; MUSLIM EXTREMISTS.

Before you think I'm nuts, read this post that I just uploaded; [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7328688&postcount=14"]Beheading is a Muslim way to keep women & girls in line[/ame]

 

[Peter Brendt]

I lately preferred just to read the posts here instead of getting involved, but slowly, I get the impression, that this whole thing moves in circles, which is maybe cause by blanket dismissing every possible different theory than older white LI resident.
So again, Maureen called from the bus terminal. The bus terminal is in NYC. Which means, she had finished with that infamous client who got her maybe or maybe not out to LI in the first place. Which means, that anyway only theoretically constructed client can't be the killer.
Second thought about the subject: Dismemberment and just body drops are two different signatures. And it is not rare that two or even more SKs work in the same area. In fact, the only unusual thing in the LI cases is, that they are so far apart. Which indicates pretty clearly, we talk her in one case (GB4) about a mere dumping ground. In the case of the dismemberer, there is probably a connection, but whether the killer lives in Manorville, Long Island or somewhere in between, we don't know.
The real question in this chat however, seems not to be, who is the killer or who killed whom but who has the wildest theory. Codes in human trafficking chats? Yeah, 10 points! Muslim Extremists? If you want to see an SK case with resemblances to Islamic burial rites in a twisted form, look to Atlantic City. But otherwise ... beheading and complete dismemberment are different things.
So, take it or leave it, I have a lot of other work to do right now.

 

[*Indigo*]

Ok Peter if we are wrong in our profile please explain to me an alternative?
Points to consider-
LE including FBI have stated they believe it is an older white male, probable Long Island resident.
All women went missing during or shortly after their last job.
Points to the killer being a client or prior client.
Otherwise how would the killer have known the intimate details of Melissa's life (sister's background, Melissa and her boyfriend's sexual relationship and boyfriend's tattoos, and also details of other victims), which he then used to taunt their families??