NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #5

[Secret77]

With all due respect, there isn't any real evidence to support a theory that SG is alive and well. As for drowning? She must have been taking a dip in the ocean after tossing her cell phone, which was found by the miscreate who called her family ... told them he was a doctor, caring for her, yada yada.

You are assuming that we know for a fact who her driver was that night. We don't.

There isn't any evidence to support the theory that she is was killed either.
She is still missing.
Please read the threads and check your facts.
Nobody ever used SG's phone to call her family.
You are confusing MB with SG.

LE knows who her driver was that night.. the same person she was arrested with back in 2009. His name is already known from that arrest.

 

[Filly]

Good point. And I agree, he likely presents as an upstanding citizen.

Shadowraiths, that's another reason I didn't think the LI murders were connected to the AC murders. I never thought whoever killed the women from AC presented as an upstanding citizen.

Mind you I think he presented as a religious person. A judgemental person. I've always thought it was the "ex con aspiring minister" who murdered the women in AC. In fact that guy got his head beat in around 2008. I believe he died in 2010. He had no problem saying he liked women's toenails all painted up so he'd want to give them foot massages, but he placed judgement on these poor prostitutes. I recall thinking "Alright con man who has lived across the whole US harboring illegal weapons you be judgemental".

 

[Filly]

Another map..

Just wanted to give special thanks for all your internet saavy, IG. Your maps are great.

 

[Secret77]

Wet would absolutely, positively cause a person to act like that.

Who knows what kind of drugs they were partying with.. and who knows what type of drugs she may have been addicted to.
A lot of working girls have drug addictions (see all 4 AC victims) so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary if some of the 4 LI victims were addicts as well (and i say this with all the respect they deserve as human beings)

 

[shadowraiths]

Shadowraiths, that's another reason I didn't think the LI murders were connected to the AC murders. I never thought whoever killed the women from AC presented as an upstanding citizen.

Mind you I think he presented as a religious person. A judgemental person. I've always thought it was the "ex con aspiring minister" who murdered the women in AC. In fact that guy got his head beat in around 2008. I believe he died in 2010. He had no problem saying he liked women's toenails all painted up so he'd want to give them foot massages, but he placed judgement on these poor prostitutes. I recall thinking "Alright con man who has lived across the whole US harboring illegal weapons you be judgemental".

Had not heard about the "ex con aspiring minister" but yes, I completely agree with you. I have long felt the LI murders were unrelated to the AC murders. The victimology was noticeably different (outcalls vs street walking, respectively) as were the murder scenes (wrapped in burlap vs posing -- not to be confused with staging -- respectively).

 

[shadowraiths]

LE knows who her driver was that night.. the same person she was arrested with back in 2009. His name is already known from that arrest.

Now, you're making assumptions.

 

[Filly]

Who knows what kind of drugs they were partying with.. and who knows what type of drugs she may have been addicted to.
A lot of working girls have drug addictions (see all 4 AC victims) so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary if some of the 4 LI victims were addicts as well (and i say this with all the respect they deserve as human beings)

Unfortunately I know a little too much about that, but thanks.

In fact I've looked into each victims DOC. That's why I mentioned it.

Also I know all prostitutes are not addicts and all addicts are not prostitutes. You can do drugs until the cows come home, but with wet you might as well count on freaking out at some point.

 

[MsFacetious]

The caller did not ever say that Ms. Barthelemy was dead or suggest that she was alive, Lynn Barthelemy said.

“He kept us hopeful,” she said.

http://newscorn.com/prostitutes-killer-sophisticated-understanding-police-techniques/

The call, police believe, was made by a sadistic serial killer who abducted and strangled Melissa Barthelemy, an aspiring hair stylist, sometime after she left her Bronx apartment on July 10, 2009.

And they're re-examining every bit of evidence in the cases, including that first call to *advertiser censored*****, which was followed by a half-dozen more during the next six weeks.

The calls abruptly stopped in August 2009 after a Buffalo TV station revealed their existence.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/1...lead-search-long-island-killer/#ixzz1JZQaRluJ


I do not think it makes a lot of sense that he was sending LE a message.

He never said he killed her. He didn't even say she was dead.

The calls ended in August of 2009, they did not find her body until December of 2010. So he wasn't "getting away" with anything because they didn't know he had he done anything.

After Melissa he never called other families again that we are aware of. If this was someone cocky trying to say "You can't catch me" then I think he probably would have called after another girl or mentioned there was one before Melissa. He never even mentioned doing anything that we are aware of.

I think it's possible he was just being sadistic. He never laughed or yelled. He was derogatory and angry towards escorts. That was his purpose in calling.

Sorry for not understanding your post, I've seen some people here put forward theories about the SK killing SG and calling her mom passing himself as the doctor.

I think it is obvious the SK knew MB (and the other 3 victims) and took her phone to call her family to inflict even more pain and to show LE, he is in control and not afraid of getting caught.

All four victims were carefully chosen, so they wouldn't leave a trace.. they weren't afraid at all, this is why they never gave any details of whom they were meeting, because they were probably meeting someone they already knew. The SK had their trust.

It is no coincidence LE has profiled the SK as someone social, with above high intelligence, unlike the AC SK who has an opposite profile, which makes me believe the killings are probably not related...
then again, depending on the SK's intelligence, he could do things to confuse the profilers.

 

[Filly]

Had not heard about the "ex con aspiring minister" but yes, I completely agree with you. I have long felt the LI murders were unrelated to the AC murders. The victimology was noticeably different (outcalls vs street walking, respectively) as were the murder scenes (wrapped in burlap vs posing -- not to be confused with staging -- respectively).

Oh Shadowraiths you know how those aspiring ministers armed with stun guns who want to worship your new pair of sandals are.

Absolutely outcalls vs street. Oh and the water vs beach burial.

 

[Sillybilly]

[

There isn't any evidence to support the theory that she is was killed either.
She is still missing.
Please read the threads and check your facts.
Nobody ever used SG's phone to call her family.
You are confusing MB with SG.

LE knows who her driver was that night.. the same person she was arrested with back in 2009. His name is already known from that arrest.

Thank you for re-stating your original statement. Of course she is still missing and none of us knows whether she is or is not alive, so your theory doesn't hold up any more than those who contend that she may not be. She is "missing" under the most unusual circumstances from an area where the bodies of other stws have been located.

No, I am not confusing MB with SG, and I did not say the caller used SG's phone. I said the caller would have had to have found her phone because the caller knew who her family was in order to call them, so either they knew her or her family personally by other than her street name, or they had access to her phone to get the family phone number. I have read the threads completely thank you, and believe my facts are right. I may stand to be humbled and corrected. It has happened before

Yes, LE knows who her driver was that night, but IIRC, they have not released that person's name to the public. It may or may not be the same driver she had in 2009. IIRC, another WSer came up with the old article that gave the name of her old driver.

 

[scandi]

BBM

For what it's worth, in the case of MB, the killer called the sister using MB's cellphone. It's fair to assume that MB might have used a throwaway phone due to her profession, but we don't know for a fact that it was.

Hi M_K, Reading your post, do you think if it was the SK who made these calls to the MB and SG homes would keep those phones or toss them after the call? I think Sherre said the Dr called back {or that was bad writing} so he might have called there 2x, don't know.

A cell phone could be a very sentimental keepsake for a SK who is targeting ladies of the night, as that is how they make their appts IMO

 

[scandi]

I agree 100%. There are even hundreds of commuters who travel fifteen minutes South to take Ocean Parkway West into Nassau County every day just to avoid the gridlock on the Southern State Parkway or Sunrise Highway. Then there are thousands of people who attend the concerts at Jones Beach as well as the fireworks shows (before the state cut them) as well as the air shows.

Literally MILLIONS of Long Islanders right?

But I still think the comfort level... the knowledge of where/when/how to pull over with a valid reason should law enforcement stop while the person is pulled over... well that's something that I still think narrows the suspect list down to those who frequent the area for a business or recreational reason. I do agree though that the SK most likely IS NOT an Oak beach resident.

Hi there Seaslug, on some news show they mentioned there were only 400 homes in Oak Beach. Does that seem right to you?

 

[shadowraiths]

When I found your website and this discussion I read how some of you are obsessed with this SK story. I remember wondering how that is possible. Well folks, you (and this case) managed to get me hooked too! So being incredibly internet savvy, I started doing a little snooping around and look what I found-

4 bodies found on LI, 2 could be CL girls - UtopiaGuide

Apparently the local Long Island Johns (who call themselves "hobbyists"???) have been discussing this case on on of their gathering websites too.

Most excellent find! Hopefully LE is following that (and other threads like it), in that the speculations are coming from ppl involved in the scene.

ETA ~ another curiosity. One poster mentioned that LC was notorious for robbing her john's. ( [ame=http://utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=972607#post972607]link[/ame] ) As with anything, it could just be gossip. However, if it is not, then you may have just found the victim's "scene" (i.e., primary community).

 

[scandi]

Gonna have to respectfully disagree with you here, Carbuff. I can't see our SK having the mettle to dismember. Too gory, requires too much contact with the bodies, too much dirty deed staring him right in the face. I'm absolutely convinced he's heavy into BDSM, strangles for sexual gratification, but once the actual death occurs, he needs to distance himself QUICK. Not because he feels remorse over a dead hooker (he doesn't), but because it threatens the life he inhabits outside of this fantasy world. I see him as constantly struggling to keep these 2 world separate. Dismemberment? Just can not see that.

JMO

Unless maybe if he was a medical doctor?

 

[internetgirl101]

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...elissaBarthelemy-SisMom003.mp4&sort=ascending

MsFacetious, Im not disagreeing with you in anyway, but I thought you would find this interview with MB's sister interesting. Around the 1:20 mark, the sister says the caller said he killed MB. But then she says it was so important to find out more info and her sister's life depended on it.

 

[scandi]

When I found your website and this discussion I read how some of you are obsessed with this SK story. I remember wondering how that is possible. Well folks, you (and this case) managed to get me hooked too! So being incredibly internet savvy, I started doing a little snooping around and look what I found-

4 bodies found on LI, 2 could be CL girls - UtopiaGuide

Apparently the local Long Island Johns (who call themselves "hobbyists"???) have been discussing this case on on of their gathering websites too.

Thanks Seaslug and I'm glad you are a WS'er. We have had so many locals joining which is awesome. Here's a hearty WELCOME to all of our new posters.

We always love our locals as they help create the setting for the rest of us who have never seen the area, met the people, driven the roads, etc.

 

[shadowraiths]

I'm absolutely convinced he's heavy into BDSM, strangles for sexual gratification, but once the actual death occurs, he needs to distance himself QUICK. Not because he feels remorse over a dead hooker (he doesn't), but because it threatens the life he inhabits outside of this fantasy world. I see him as constantly struggling to keep these 2 world separate. Dismemberment? Just can not see that.

Accidental death via breath play (aka erotic asphyxiation)? If that is the case, then I agree. Dismemberment would be too gruesome for him. However, since we're talking about several vics, I *highly* doubt this involves accidental death such as, for example, the leblanc/exely case ( link ). Thereby rendering dismemberment, from a purely utility pov, quite plausible.

 

[scandi]

I'd like to know how well JB and PH knew each other.

ITA Ama,

Taking 3 things we have heard I think SG's going missing revolves totally around JB's home and what was going on there that night.

* The last person Sherre placed seeing Shannan alive was the lady whose door she knocked on after she left Gus's house. That was after she left Gus's house. And a poster here has said that lady lives across the street from JB

* We have another 'partier' at JB's house in the drifter. That seems ti change the nature of the party from a one on one appt for frolic to a 3-some at the least, and who knows what that might have involved. :innocent:

* Add into the mix the Dr, even though we don't know his status now in the case. A link states he was the last person to see Shannan. Give me a break, it could have been a partee if he was by or at JB's house to see Shannan after she ran from the lady's house !

PS: As in every major case where there are multitudes of articles, they often have different info. I usually go with the first rendition.

 

[scandi]

OMG. I was thinking this too. Just re-reading the recent posts and saw that you thought this too. Let's assume that the theory that this maniac might be one of those crazy BDSM freaks who takes role playing to the next level and actually takes woman hostage keeping his victims alive for some period of time to torture and play with in his own sadistic way. If she stumbled upon him while he was in the process of burying a body it's very likely he would have knocked her out but not killed her (so he could take her home or to his hide out to be his next sex slave).

Poor girl. She probably was in the exact wrong place at the exact wrong time. Sick thing is, she might still be alive. How many times do these sickos surface in the news where there is a happy ending for the family of the missing victim because the victim is still alive!

Pat Brown also said he probably tortured his victims which gave him much pleasure.

 

[katydid23]

SeaSlugg,

THANK YOU for that LI Link to the 'hobbyists' forum. That was fascinating. I got a different POV on this case to say the least. Thanks