NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

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Mountain_Kat said:
Not to nitpick, Truth (because you know I value your posts), but doesn't this really belong in the rumor thread? There's nothing to substantiate that CPH ever said anything of the sort, save from a comment from a poster on another site.

My concern is that posters will read something like that, it gets stuck in their heads, and then turns into, "Well I read somewhere that CPH was making strange comments about LE finding SG".

It's interesting, but it's not an established fact, know what I mean?

JMO
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how many posts in the lisk forum which are not on the rumor thread are established fact? ..... so few.

I obviously am not claiming it is fact, I have sited that it is from lisk.com and we all know what that means. If a poster makes the mistake you describe, than they are screwed anyway. Many people on this forum have sited a supposed interview via txt messages and published on nj.com as fact. I could argue that flukeyou has more credibility than that, but I won't. Everyone should try to determine for themselves the trustworthiness of what they read here and elsewhere as there are parties here and elsewhere who have an extremely strong interest in how people believe these events played out. I am not one of these people as I have no skin in the game, my identity is known and I am a mere onlooker like most of us are. I am interested in what fluke says because he is an insider and has proven on more than one occasion that he has insider information that has later become public and verified. I can't say the same thing for any other person involved in any way in this case. Informants can have infinite value in a difficult investigation such as this, but as always informants info should be taken with a grain of salt. Afterall, just because he has proven insider information doesn't mean he isn't a double or triple agent, etc.
 
I've been looking over old news articles on the searches. After watching the video at the link, I find it really perplexing as to why Shannan remains were not found in April 2011. Just look at all the manpower, dogs, horses, fire trucks, etc. and she was right off the pkwy. I'm not sure that I buy into the drowning theory til the ME's report is released.

scroll down for vid

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04...new-jersey-craigslist-escort-shannan-gilbert/

moo

wm
 
waltzingmatilda said:
I've been looking over old news articles on the searches. After watching the video at the link, I find it really perplexing as to why Shannan remains were not found in April 2011. Just look at all the manpower, dogs, horses, fire trucks, etc. and she was right off the pkwy. I'm not sure that I buy into the drowning theory til the ME's report is released.

scroll down for vid

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04...new-jersey-craigslist-escort-shannan-gilbert/

moo

wm
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I may be mistaken but I think that video was showing clips of all different searches at different times in different areas. I think the search that day was concentrated in and around the water.
 
To Kill a Mockingbird said:
I was just wondering and who better to share it with than all of you.

If I am wrong to post this - please - let me know - but I'm thinking out loud.
If Shannan was screaming at the top of her lungs in Oak Beach AFTER going to GC's (- as LE and the commissioner who is now retired said she was, as well as every article ever written on the young lady)

and if she was screaming things like "help help - they're trying to kill me"
and apparently PA(???) and BB heard the screams...and called LE.

Something doesnt make sense - the hour was an extremely QUIET hour of the day. With that kind of silence outside in nature --- and being as they were on the water You can hear things from far far away.

LE has said she was "screaming and acting inappropriate" - so also since water CARRIES sound.....how come MP didnt mention her screams - while he was "searching" for her before high tailing it out of oak beach before the police arrived? MP has said he was searching for her - so how come he never heard her screams? He was much closer than GC???????? He never said he heard her screams when he was interviewed on A&E show.

That just has bothered me....the whole time.


ok - has anyone else wondered that too?


Ok - any thoughts all you sleuths?
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Maybe MP picked her up......and silenced her.
Maybe MP then took her away......
Maybe MP then returned the clothing and SG's body to Oak Beach at a later date to divert interest away from himself.


Maybe MP is not the LISK, and MP was so angry with SG that night his attempt to silence her was fatal. In a panic he left Oak Beach quickly and took time to think things out.

Maybe

MOO
 
MrsPC said:
No one is giving anyone a "hard time"....we're simply questioning the premise that Gilbert drowned when it's evident the area her remains were found wasn't a big pond or under water. Yes there is water near there....yes it is a "marshy" area. Could she have gotten stuck in mud? Possibly. But drowning? I think it's highly improbable.
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I agree that it is unlikely that she drowned, only because it seems that she was found pretty much on the northeastern side of the marsh, which means she made it through the wet part.

That's why I suggest that she succumbed to hypothermia.

The wide part of the marsh is approximately 2,000 feet, which translates to 0.38 miles. The average human walking speed is 3 miles per hour. The bio-silt at that accumulates at the bottom of these water formations can be quite deep, adding feet onto the water level. She would have had an extremely difficult time making forward progress from Anchor Way to her final resting spot. She would have been cold, wet and exhausted, probably stopping at points to rest. Her progress was at best 10-15 percent of normal walking speed, allowing plenty of time for the required 1 hour for hypothermia to set in to cover the approximately 0.38 miles that she traveled.
 
dcgrumpy said:
I may be mistaken but I think that video was showing clips of all different searches at different times in different areas. I think the search that day was concentrated in and around the water.
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Now that you say that DCGrumpy, I remember much of the search for SG last april was in the waters around oak beach, divers, clam rakes, etc...

Fast forward to Dec 2011 and LE says they believe she drowned, then they find her body right next to the parkway and still they are saying she drowned....

What do we make of this? Is this a coincidence? Or did LE have information in April from all that questioning that led them to believe she "drowned" or was killed in such a way to make it look like a drowning?

I also remember from April, that GC's statements in the media went from "I believe she was murdered" to "I believe she probably hit her head and drowned". It seems like some information/person in April 2011 propagated the drowning theory, whether true or not, and now LE either want's everyone to believe that lie is the truth, or they want to convince the person who propagated the information that LE believes she drowned. I think it is the latter.

So what or who could have told both LE and GC that she may have accidentally drowned? Who last April was speaking with both LE and GC? I wonder... It must be someone who thinks they are so smart they can convince people of anything. Someone who no matter how unlikely the scenario is, thinks with a little (irrational) rationalizing they can convince other people to believe patently absurd things. That is like trying to convince your colleagues that you were flown out to sea on a coast guard helicopter, deposited on the bow of a yacht, dove into the oil slicked fiery ocean and swam hundreds of yards to examine a dead body. The hubris!
 
truthspider said:
Now that you say that DCGrumpy, I remember much of the search for SG last april was in the waters around oak beach, divers, clam rakes, etc...

Fast forward to Dec 2011 and LE says they believe she drowned, then they find her body right next to the parkway and still they are saying she drowned....

What do we make of this? Is this a coincidence? Or did LE have information in April from all that questioning that led them to believe she "drowned" or was killed in such a way to make it look like a drowning?

I also remember from April, that GC's statements in the media went from "I believe she was murdered" to "I believe she probably hit her head and drowned". It seems like some information/person in April 2011 propagated the drowning theory, whether true or not, and now LE either want's everyone to believe that lie is the truth, or they want to convince the person who propagated the information that LE believes she drowned. I think it is the latter.

So what or who could have convinced both LE and GC that she may have accidentally drowned? Who last April was speaking with both LE and GC? I wonder... It must be someone who thinks they are so smart they can convince people of anything.
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Don't ask me how, but somehow I sense that you're referring to the Doc.
 
Clem Snide said:
Don't ask me how, but somehow I sense that you're referring to the Doc.
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well let's see if he fits...

questioned a number of times by LE prior to their extensive search of the waters around oak beach (check)

friends with GC (check)

it could be him....regardless of anyone's opinion on that, I think the fact that LE intensely searched in the water around oak beach last April for SG's remains, and the fact that they declared she drowned before and after they found her is worthy of all of our discussion...tawk awmongst yawselves...
 

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The more I think about it, the more I am curious about MP. However I keep coming back to PCH and his phone call, but maybe there is a linkage.

MP leaves Oak Beach with SG in his car early that morning. He has enough street smarts and experience with LE to return to 'look' for SG. Knows his car will not incriminate him from a forensic point of view, as he can easily explain SG's presence in his car.

MP goes through the motion of looking for SG in the morning, meets PCH the ever helpful local. PCH says to MP 'how can I help'.

MP replies to the effect that SG is in rehab, and if PCH would call Mari Gilbert and let her know, MP would appreciate it.

PCH does, and instantly brings focus on himself to MP's benefit.

Remember SG refused to get into to MP's car, and she was running away from him. She felt he was a threat.

Okay I got more questions.
1) That morning, why did MP leave, only to return later, where did he go, what did he do?

2) If your are on foot, and I am in a car with headlights, and I am following you, chances are if you leave the roadway I will know where you did. Pretty hard to runaway from a car, and MP could always follow on foot. But he did not have to if he got her in the car.

3) MP if he really cared about SG, could have told LE, "this is where I saw her last", "this where I think she ran into the bush" etc. I do not think he helped with the search.

4) Until otherwise disclosed, he was the last to see SG alive.

5) PCH and MP can incriminate or exonerate each other by discussing what they said to each other, but neither seems to be talking about the conversation in the morning. PCH may be afraid of MP.

6) MP may not have anything to do with the other cases, but it was very serendipitous that the other bodies were dumped nearby.

7) Has anybody checked if MP has any connection with either the LISK or AC victims?


MOO
 
WINDSOR said:
The more I think about it, the more I am curious about MP. However I keep coming back to PCH and his phone call, but maybe there is a linkage.

MP leaves Oak Beach with SG in his car early that morning. He has enough street smarts and experience with LE to return to 'look' for SG. Knows his car will not incriminate him from a forensic point of view, as he can easily explain SG's presence in his car.

MP goes through the motion of looking for SG in the morning, meets PCH the ever helpful local. PCH says to MP 'how can I help'.

MP replies to the effect that SG is in rehab, and if PCH would call Mari Gilbert and let her know, MP would appreciate it.

PCH does, and instantly brings focus on himself to MP's benefit.

Remember SG refused to get into to MP's car, and she was running away from him. She felt he was a threat.

Okay I got more questions.
1) That morning, why did MP leave, only to return later, where did he go, what did he do?

2) If your are on foot, and I am in a car with headlights, and I am following you, chances are if you leave the roadway I will know where you did. Pretty hard to runaway from a car, and MP could always follow on foot. But he did not have to if he got her in the car.

3) MP if he really cared about SG, could have told LE, "this is where I saw her last", "this where I think she ran into the bush" etc. I do not think he helped with the search.

4) Until otherwise disclosed, he was the last to see SG alive.

5) PCH and MP can incriminate or exonerate each other by discussing what they said to each other, but neither seems to be talking about the conversation in the morning. PCH may be afraid of MP.

6) MP may not have anything to do with the other cases, but it was very serendipitous that the other bodies were dumped nearby.

7) Has anybody checked if MP has any connection with either the LISK or AC victims?


MOO
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Thank you Windsor - those were really good points. Absolutely!!!!!:waitasec:
 
I've always found Pak to be probably the most mysterious man in this whole thing. I don't know what to think of him. I wish I knew more about the details of his involvement in bringing that lady in from China illegally. He's obviously a shady guy, but exactly how shady is he?...
 
inspctrgadget said:
Alex Diaz didn't pass out cards. CPH gave Alex his card. She wasn't a victim at the time. She was missing. He was offering to be a resource. There is nothing fishy about it. And yes, police have seen the phone records. They've "debunked" Mari's version of events.
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No, they haven't "debunked" Mari's version of events. There's one clip of a very early press conference with Dormer saying something to the effect that "that has pretty much been debunked." It's very ambiguous and when the reporter goes on, as I recall, to ask him more pointed questions about it he says they are still looking into it. It's clear he doesn't want to discuss it. And that was also waaaaaaaay at the beginning. Things have changed a lot, what the police have said since then has changed a lot. You are taking one instance which isn't in fact even very clear and are using that to make it a fact, and it isn't. So please, you can believe what you want, and it may upset you that people don't agree, but please don't manipulate the facts. That doesn't help anything.
 
Yes, Dormer "debunked" the story and then said he was "looking into it". :eyeroll:

I'm pretty one has to look into something BEFORE it can be debunked, but hey...what do I know?
 
snapdragon2 said:
No, they haven't "debunked" Mari's version of events. There's one clip of a very early press conference with Dormer saying something to the effect that "that has pretty much been debunked." It's very ambiguous and when the reporter goes on, as I recall, to ask him more pointed questions about it he says they are still looking into it. It's clear he doesn't want to discuss it. And that was also waaaaaaaay at the beginning. Things have changed a lot, what the police have said since then has changed a lot. You are taking one instance which isn't in fact even very clear and are using that to make it a fact, and it isn't. So please, you can believe what you want, and it may upset you that people don't agree, but please don't manipulate the facts. That doesn't help anything.
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I'm not manipulating facts, I'm simply interpreting them for myself and for the benefit of the group discussion. I'm also not upset that people don't agree - everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

In my defense, I am not analyzing the "rehab call" in a vacuum based on Dormer's statement alone (which by the way - he couldn't have used a stronger word). I've made my analysis on the "rehab" call by carefully and exhaustively considering the totality of evidence, information and statements that are available to me.

In the end, I believe Mari was lying or conveniently misremembering the timing and nature of the call in order to further the investigation of the person SHE thought was responsible for her daughter's death. How she came to believe that CPH was the perp is anyone's guess, but knowing that she is friends with Flukeyou gives me some idea of where she may have picked up that idea after the media storm hit. She never reported that call to police prior to the media storm.

Regardless of how or when the police "debunked" this call, the entire scenario has been thoroughly "debunked" here on this board. It has been explained eloquently and succinctly by Seaslug in a way that is completely understandable by any (dispassionate) observer.

See here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7516404&postcount=403"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #13[/ame]
 
LE had Eighteen Months to find SG's body & then remains.

There were three time frames where she was "missed."
May 1, 2010
December 2010
April 2011
All of these major weather events occurred AFTER SG disappeared

Hurricane Irene August 2011
Blizzard Dec 2010
Hurricane Earl Skims the LI coast Sept 2, 2010
 
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