NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[chemcopout]

Seriously- we ride our motorcycle down there every blessed day in the summer, have picnics, go to cedar beach, even at night onto Robert Moses to see the deer.... I have never ever ever seen a cop pull anyone over down there. Everyone knows, that's a cruising spot when all other roads are congested and frankly, unsafe for motorcycles. In fact, by car, it's a beautiful scenic drive, straight as an arrow and fast as all get-out!

As a matter-of-fact, I had to ask "who patrols that area? troopers or local precinct 1?" because I never see cops down there.

mrsg i think you are on target here. you live there so you know. the killer knows as well, he's familiar and comfy with the area. he knows that there aren't too many cops on that road, so that probably factored into his choosing it for a dump site.

also i doubt the killer would be the type to get speeding tickets. if he's smart he'll play it safe and try to avoid the law at all costs.

 

[scandi]

Ok I tried signing up for the LI site. I got my password and name and it wont let me sign in. My cookies are enabled and my IP address is not hidden. Nothing. I feel rejected.

BTW my husband thinks I am completely crazy and he wont help me see why I cant log on. Any body have any solutions?

I did the same as you and it won't let me sign in either.

 

[svpernin]

I did the same as you and it won't let me sign in either.

Ugh, I'm so sorry guys. I don't know what's wrong with the site. If you PM me, I can send you some of the stuff that was posted on there, just so you get an idea.

 

[scandi]

I think the sk has an obsessive compulsive disorder who lives in the area and is responsible for the bodies found in AC. He is a fisherman or possibly a truck driver who does things in fours. He probably scratches his butt 4 times, brushes his teeth 4 times, washes his hands 4 times and probably has his clothes hung in his closet in groups of...you guessed it! FOUR! He probably wrapped the bodies in burlap 4 times (wrapping and unwrapping) before discarding them. He is very meticulous in everything that he does. This monster should stand out if he is somebody's co-worker who has been tolerating his idiosyncracies. Perhaps he is or has been a patient of a therapist and/or a psychiatrist. Once he is apprehended, there will be many who will say, "I should have known!"

Hi Sistah, Do you think this guy is a flight risk? I don't as he seems so engrained in the community he'd be lost without being there.

Why then doesn't LE {FBI} hold a presser and tell the public about him?

 

[carbuff]

Shannon doesn't fit the previous profile, either -- she's 5'7" according to the poster.

It makes me wonder if word was out among the call girls that somebody was preying on them, and they weren't responding to his ads any more.

Do we know for a fact or from a reasonably reliable article that the Asian man in the Suburban is Shannon's driver?

 

[chemcopout]

Sorry for hogging the thread lol. Right now.....I THINK these murders could possibly be related to the Atlantic City murders. What's making me think that is the "precision" in disposing of the victims. To me.....it seems to be a key trait this killer has. I again.....go back to odds. What are the "odds" there are two separate serial killers at work here that are so "conscious" about the SPACING of their victims?

mahoo, i agree with you on the burlap and "spacing apart" of the victims being very important to this case, as well as the chosen location for the victims.

as someone had mentioned earlier, if these cases are related to ac's 4 girls, then the killer has evolved.

in ac the girls were spaced apart and also were escorts. the heights and weights varied though and they were a lot bigger than these girls. in ac all 4 were spaced apart, laying in inches of water, with all facing east and none of them had shoes on.

the killer evolved in the sense he's been able to perfect his methods. here we see he removes every personal item off the girls (from clothes to pierced earrings) none of their personal affects are found. this makes it harder to identify them.

if they are connected; did the killer start out in ac? did he have prior victims?
why did the victims profiles change drastically from ac to li? (we'll have more info when we find out about the newest 4 found).

the ac girls were taller and heavier than the li girls.
now either the killer isn't the same
the killer is somehow at a disadvantage in some way so that he has to pick smaller girls (disability, sickness, he has someone hired to bring the girls to him now and that person is smaller so he picks smaller girls since theys easier for the picker to control)
or maybe he just prefers smaller girls all along, and has got confidant enough to the point were he goes directly for smaller girls.

out of the li ones we know of, megan waterman is the only one who stands out in physical different (not being under 5' tall or under 105lbs).
he also killed twice, possibly 3 times in 2010 that we know of.

the order would be:
shannon gilbert may 1 2010
megan waterman june 6 2010
amber lynn costello sept 2 2010

i would speculate he has more victims or shannon stressed him out a lot and he felt the urge to kill again a month later

 

[mahmoo]

I think this person is a "major" flight risk. I don't think the person really wants/wanted to leave but admittedly.....the heat is on. I have a feeling with every "revelation" that's been made in the media since Dec 10 has already driven this person underground. Not sure if it's the "obvious suspect" or something even more sinister. Either way.....there's some freaky chit going on out there on Ocean Parkway.

 

[Danica7]

sorry if this has already been posted, but please tell me if I am wrong, but the driver was one of the last people to see her alive and he also has links to prostitutes, long island and new jersey? It just seems like he should be looked into further.

 

[mahmoo]

Shannan apparently arrived at JB's place around 2am?????? 2AM???? Wth? I thought the "partiers", whoever they might be, went out at maybe around midnight but......2AM??? Isn't that a rather odd hour to start a party? Even for the craziest of us? 5am the first "distress" call came in from Shannan. Who the hell is up at 5am on a weekend morning....especially at the beach?

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

Sistah....I'm on board with your way of thinking. To me.....this person is what is commonly referred to as "anal" now days. The epitome of "anal" to me. I think the burlap is "key" in the investigation and, the "perfect spacing". The victim profiles are major important as well. My fingers are crossed that DNA can be obtained from the burlap.

I'm kind of honed in on JB's business (the liquor store) being right across the street from a U-Haul place.....that's sticking out like a sore thumb to me.

Burlap holds everything. I'm sure LE has fibers from the carpet in the vehicle. If the burlap was on the carpet in the house it has those fibers too. I thought back in January that they would have somebody in custody by now. Between the burlap, the computers and cell phones of the victims and the calls to one of the victim's sister it seemed like they would have hauled in a suspect. I find it interesting that the four in AC were all facing East and LI is East of AC.

My other theory is that the sk is a woman. A pissed off divorcee whose marriage disintergrated due to her husband seeing prostitutes. She contacts them on Craigslist and sends them bogus pictures pretending to be a man arranging a date. She kills most when she is off of her meds but she is ridding the world of as many filthy *advertiser censored* as she can because they destroyed her marriage and family.

Okay, I let my imagination run away with that one but it really isn't that far fetched. The "wrapping" in burlap signifies some sort of care that a woman would provide. Not caring in the way that she actually cared for the victims because obviously she didn't but caring in a way to camaflouge the remains. She may have an occupation in the fishing industry that gives her access to burlap.

Everybody is looking for a man when there is a bat shyt crazy woman running loose.

 

[Chanler]

A couple of points:

1. I don't think that what Shannan Gilbert said tells us anything about her killer. To me, her hysterical behavior and paranoia sounds like the rantings of someone on cocaine, rather than somewhat facing immediate danger. That said, her condition might explain why she would be especially vulnerable for some stranger trolling for victims.

2. I think that the burial techniques of the killer don't necessarily reveal psychological patterning; they indicate that this monster is meticulous about keeping his secret. The burlap makes sense: A decaying body exposed in a moist, changing environment is more likely to reveal itself as it disintegrates than one packaged. If he did take their clothing and other personal effects, it might indicate that he's keeping trophies of his grisly "triumphs," but it also indicates that he's trying to make identification more difficult. When I saw an aerial view of the area tonight, I realized that this serial murderer had found just the kind of desolate place that an ordered killer would crave.

3. I just keep thinking about all those mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers who will be getting calls once the identifications come in.

 

[chemcopout]

if the killer is familiar with the area and lives there, he may come from money. i'd say that would make him a huge flight risk. we know le is keeping their cards very tight to their chest with this case, and if they do have suspects i'm sure they told them dont even think about leaving town and they have detail on the suspects.

i wish we had more info on the driver as well. it's odd as he had asked not to be named, and he's never been named in articles. so i figured maybe he's a witness? they refuse to release the 911 call and shannon supposedly named who she thought her attacker was on it.

as for shannon she was too scared to stay at jbs, she was too scared to leave with the driver, too scared to go inside gc the neighbor's house. fight or flight.

if you listen to the video with gc he mentions shannon said that "they're after me" then when the reporter asked him again he said he didn't say that and she just said "help me".
so i think gc may have accidently slipped up when he said shannon said "they"

[ame="http://s988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/WebsleuthsCommunityAlbums/Shannan%20Gilbert%2024/?action=view&current=Homicideprobe.mp4"]Shannan Gilbert 24 :: Gustav Coletti video by WebsleuthsCommunityAlbums - Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://vid988.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/WebsleuthsCommunityAlbums/Shannan%20Gilbert%2024/Homicideprobe.mp4@@AMEPARAM@@vid988@@AMEPARAM@@988@@AMEPARAM@@af1/WebsleuthsCommunityAlbums/Shannan%20Gilbert%2024/Homicideprobe@@AMEPARAM@@mp4[/ame]


gc also mentions that after he stopped the asian driver who claimed shannon left a party upset, he pointed the direction shannon went and the driver took off after her. what if this driver gets the girls and brings them to jb?

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

Hi Sistah, Do you think this guy is a flight risk? I don't as he seems so engrained in the community he'd be lost without being there.

Why then doesn't LE {FBI} hold a presser and tell the public about him?

I believe his lives within close distance to the dumping area. Perhaps LE has a strong suspect under surveillance but not enough evidence for a search warrant and they don't want to alarm him. I do think the LE under the direction of the FBI plant certain statements and information in the media. For instance, when they found the first four in December, LE stated in a news article that they didn't think a sk was responsible but probably some "lazy Funeral Director."

I giggled my hiney off at that!

But they stated that possibly in hopes that the sk would communicate via a letter to LE or the media screaming, "You friggin' idiots,:banghead: it was me! I did it! I killed those *advertiser censored*!" :banghead:

Then again, they are probably looking for a man when it's really a woman. Perhaps a manish looking woman.

 

[chemcopout]

A couple of points:

1. I don't think that what Shannan Gilbert said tells us anything about her killer. To me, it sounds like the rantings of someone on cocaine, rather than somewhat facing immediate danger. That said, her condition might explain why she would be especially vulnerable for some stranger trolling for victims.

2. I think that the burial techniques of the killer don't necessarily reveal psychological patterning; they indicate that this monster is meticulous about keeping his secret. The burlap makes sense: A decaying body exposed in a moist, changing environment is more likely to reveal itself as it disintegrates than one packaged. If he did take their clothing and other personal effects, it might indicate that he's keeping trophies of his grisly "triumphs," but it also indicates that he's trying to make identification more difficult.

shannon gilbert's actions speak louder than words. not to mention LE won't release the 911 call as it has unspeakable value. if that 911 call were merely the ramblings of a person on drugs, i'd think le would have released it by now.
i've never heard or seen anyone on cocaine bug out like that. lsd maybe, not cocaine and yes i've my college days and seen a lot.

what it does seem like though is that certain people are trying to make shannon sound like she was irrational bipolar on drugs delusional to the point that they want her to sound not credible.

ita that the killer is keeping trophies of some sort.

burlap decomposes, although i'm not sure what role it plays or why the killer chose that to use to dispose of the victims. he could have buried them naked with nothing. used the burlap for transport, then burned it afterwards yet he didn't.

i have to disagree about the killer's burial techniques. if he wanted his secret to be kept and these bodies never to be found he would have buried them in all different areas 100's of miles away, different states. they never found 3 of rifkin's 17 victims. this killer is dumb in the sense he puts them all in the same place. it seems like a ritualistic ocd thing to do. you find one, your find them all. if he were to have really disposed of them, then you would find just one or none. if he had a boat he could dump them out in the atlantic.

if you package a body (as you call it) i'm guessing your referring to preserving it by burial? it seems this killer wants the bodies to decomp fast. burlap decomposed, as plastic may not so quickly. plastic would preserve. i think the killer goes to extremes to remove the clothes since he doesn't want any fibers or dna on the victims. i wouldn't be surprised if he cleans them before going to the burlap then disposal. the only reason he would clean them would be to rid of evidence, as he in no way cares for these girls. to him they are disposable.

it's as if he wants his credit for the killings while not getting caught and remaining anonymous. they feed off the anon media attention to their "work".
yet the killer takes precautions to remove everything off the girls to make it harder to identify them.

here's an article mentioning some hope for le with technology in this case.

http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/wnyc-news...island-murderer-large-how-find-serial-killer/

 

[mahmoo]

At this point.....with all the bodies that have been found INSANELY close to JB's "residence" and the FACT that a "call girl" was running in a VERY frightened manner from JB's house JUST BEFORE she seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth makes me VERY SUSPICIOUS of JB. I don't care if LE cleared him back last year sometime....I don't think they really knew what was about to confront them down the road. He may NOT have been suspect back then but imo......he'd be AT THE TOP OF THE LIST right now.

 

[scandi]

Shannan apparently arrived at JB's place around 2am?????? 2AM???? Wth? I thought the "partiers", whoever they might be, went out at maybe around midnight but......2AM??? Isn't that a rather odd hour to start a party? Even for the craziest of us? 5am the first "distress" call came in from Shannan. Who the hell is up at 5am on a weekend morning....especially at the beach?

This was an interesting video of JB from last Dec. And in the comments below, on Feb 1st it was written LE were digging around his other house. Hmmmm, I wonder if that is where his mother lives?

http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-client-interview,0,541593.story

 

[Chanler]

if the killer is familiar with the area and lives there, he may come from money. i'd say that would make him a huge flight risk. we know le is keeping their cards very tight to their chest with this case, and if they do have suspects i'm sure they told them dont even think about leaving town and they have detail on the suspects.

i wish we had more info on the driver as well. it's odd as he had asked not to be named, and he's never been named in articles. so i figured maybe he's a witness? they refuse to release the 911 call and shannon supposedly named who she thought her attacker was on it.

as for shannon she was too scared to stay at jbs, she was too scared to leave with the driver, too scared to go inside gc the neighbor's house. fight or flight.

if you listen to the video with gc he mentions shannon said that "they're after me" then when the reporter asked him again he said he didn't say that and she just said "help me".
so i think gc may have accidently slipped up when he said shannon said "they"

Shannan Gilbert 24 :: Gustav Coletti video by WebsleuthsCommunityAlbums - Photobucket


gc also mentions that after he stopped the asian driver who claimed shannon left a party upset, he pointed the direction shannon went and the driver took off after her. what if this driver gets the girls and brings them to jb?

Hi, ChemCopOut. I think that the Asian driver didn't want to be identified because he made his money that night (and perhaps others) driving a young sex trade worker to her client.

Men who frequent prostitutes are slime, but in this instance, I don't think that either the john or the driver are homicidal culprits. It's clear from what we have heard so far that Shannan Gilbert was unhinged, possibly from a combination of cocaine, alcohol, and being bilpolar. I think that police haven't released the 911 tapes because they provide any clues about how the situation ultimately unfolded.

 

[mahmoo]

This was an interesting video of JB from last Dec. And in the comments below, on Feb 1st it was written LE were digging around his other house. Hmmmm, I wonder if that is where his mother lives?

http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-client-interview,0,541593.story

It is interesting scandi. The reporter asks JB some question....I couldn't understand him, and JB answers " I feel sorry for the true victims". Huh???.....who ARE the "true victims" JB? Enlighten us. Ask him who the "true victims" are media.

 

[scandi]

It is interesting scandi. The reporter asks JB some question....I couldn't understand him, and JB answers " I feel sorry for the true victims". Huh???.....who ARE the "true victims" JB? Enlighten us. Ask him who the "true victims" are media.

I keep thinking about the U-Haul Connection here. That has to be COINKYDINK :crazy:

 

[Chanler]

shannon gilbert's actions speak louder than words. not to mention LE won't release the 911 call as it has unspeakable value. if that 911 call were merely the ramblings of a person on drugs, i'd think le would have released it by now.
i've never heard or seen anyone on cocaine bug out like that. lsd maybe, not cocaine and yes i've my college days and seen a lot.

what it does seem like though is that certain people are trying to make shannon sound like she was irrational bipolar on drugs delusional to the point that they want her to sound not credible.

ita that the killer is keeping trophies of some sort.

burlap decomposes, although i'm not sure what role it plays or why the killer chose that to use to dispose of the victims. he could have buried them naked with nothing. used the burlap for transport, then burned it afterwards yet he didn't.

i have to disagree about the killer's burial techniques. if he wanted his secret to be kept and these bodies never to be found he would have buried them in all different areas 100's of miles away, different states. they never found 3 of rifkin's 17 victims. this killer is dumb in the sense he puts them all in the same place. it seems like a ritualistic ocd thing to do. you find one, your find them all. if he were to have really disposed of them, then you would find just one or none. if he had a boat he could dump them out in the atlantic.

if you package a body (as you call it) i'm guessing your referring to preserving it by burial? it seems this killer wants the bodies to decomp fast. burlap decomposed, as plastic may not so quickly. plastic would preserve. i think the killer goes to extremes to remove the clothes since he doesn't want any fibers or dna on the victims. i wouldn't be surprised if he cleans them before going to the burlap then disposal. the only reason he would clean them would be to rid of evidence, as he in no way cares for these girls. to him they are disposable.

it's as if he wants his credit for the killings while not getting caught and remaining anonymous. they feed off the anon media attention to their "work".
yet the killer takes precautions to remove everything off the girls to make it harder to identify them.

here's an article mentioning some hope for le with technology in this case.

http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/wnyc-news...island-murderer-large-how-find-serial-killer/

Hi, ChemCopOut, thanks for your detailed note.

Law Enforcement release 911 tapes if they think that it will help solve the case. Releasing a lengthy rambling 911 call from a presumed victim would only embarrass her family.

The story of the driver and the john and the old man seem to have cumulative consistency. I think that we are focusing on Ms. Gilbert because it is the only seeming near-narrative we have.

As for cocaine, I've lived in Manhattan's East Village for forty years and I have seen several prostitutes and other people behaving extremely on coke. A woman (now deceased) who lived in my building had to be dragged from her apartment by police after such a paranoid attack.

I think that several of the most morbidly successful serial killers buried their bodies in clusters; the strategy, I assume, being that if it worked the first time, it would again. And in this instance, returning to familiar fields did work for at least eight murders.

As you note, burlap can be used for transporting bodies. (I apologize; this sounds gruesome.) I assume that by burying a body inside burlap that you would at least slow the disintegration of the body and its release to the surface and thus lessen the possibility that bones would separate and become visible or that body parts would be detected by scavenger animals. If he is also the killer of the Atlantic City women, he might have thought that adding the burlap would keep his secret safe longer.