NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

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Map of bodes from Newsday that someone was asking to see. The only map of the bodies I can find is the same one as before - shows the first 5 only. I am not seeing the other 3.
However, the site is now super active - new video, new article posted around 6pm with update around 10.30pm and already over 350 comments on it. folks are getting nervous. They're going to expand the search next week into nassau County, interview with th elderly neighbor on whose door Shannon banged on, saying he feels bad that he didn't stop her, and would have done if he's realized the danger she was in (or words to that effect).
 
Chanler said:
And, as has been noted already, the family said that the john was not the person named in the 911 call.
Click to expand...

We don't really know what name Shannon had for the John. He could have called himself anything, right??
 
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/murder-victim-search-moves-to-jones-beach-1.2805510

Murder victim search moves to Jones Beach
Originally published: April 7, 2011 6:07 PM
Updated: April 7, 2011 10:27 PM
By ANDREW STRICKLER AND MATTHEW CHAYES. andrew.strickler@newsday.com,, matthew.chayes@newsday.com

Photo credit: James Carbone | Two ladder trucks used in a search for additional remains or cluse on the westbound Ocean Parkway at Oak Beach. (April 7, 2011)
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For more on this story visit News 12 Long Island
Video gallery: Bodies at Gilgo Beach
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Location of bodies in Gilgo Beach
Suffolk officials yesterday concluded a painstaking, four-day canvass in the Gilgo Beach area that had recovered three more human remains, and the search now moves to Nassau and Jones Beach beginning Monday.
 
More from the above cited article for those who can't access directly:

Starting early Monday, State Police troopers, Nassau officers on horseback and others will begin to crisscross a 4-mile stretch between Tobay Beach Park and the Jones Beach tower.
"After Suffolk County found these four more bodies, it had to be done," said Nassau police spokesman Det. Lt. Kevin Smith.
The primary area of interest is a bramble-thick wildlife sanctuary and the adjacent, undeveloped state land between the parkway and South Oyster Bay, officials said.
Mounted police will traverse trails through the sanctuary for an elevated view, police said. Using the search method developed by Suffolk police this week, officers will mount raised firetruck buckets to move out over thickets. Others will be on foot.
A Nassau County medical examiner official will be on hand to distinguish animal bones from any others that are found. A police helicopter also will be used, Smith said. The search is expected to go at least into a second day.
All eight remains were discovered during searches for Gilbert, who has not been found and was last seen alive in Oak Beach on May 1. Like the remains of the four women initially found in December, Gilbert worked as a prostitute and advertised on the Craigslist website. Like the others, she went missing while visiting clients.
Fifty state troopers will participate next week, as will members of State Park Police, said Trooper Frank Bandiero of the State Police. The agency will also provide several cadaver dogs that participated in a December search over frozen ground that failed to reveal the four remains found recently in Suffolk.
 
snapdragon2 said:
Who says he "allowed" her to make a call? She was on her own phone. That's why I'm wondering if she might have locked herself in the bathroom or something, a fact he wouldn't likely reveal.

Question - why would the john's name be revealed but not the driver? Is it just that it was easier to find the john's name in these circumstances, or would that be intentional on the part of law enforcement, and if so why? Is that sort of thing typical, and if so what does it signify, if anything? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Snapdragon, the john and the driver were both in the house. If Shannan was afraid of the john, why was she refusing to leave his house, according to both the driver and the john?

JERSEY CITY, N.J. (AP) — The man who drove a missing New Jersey prostitute on the day she disappeared says she was "delirious" and "irrational" when she called 911 from a client's house.
....
He said Gilbert's client phoned him three hours later and said Gilbert was refusing to leave.

The man said he found Gilbert on the phone telling a 911 operator that a man was after her.

The driver told the newspaper he tried to get Gilbert leave but she said, "You guys are trying to kill me."

He said Gilbert eventually ran from the house.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/loc...er-Missing-Prostitute-Was-Afraid-20101216-APX#

As for your well-stated question, it's usually up to the person. In this case, the driver asked the media not to be identified. In the case of the john, I think that his house was a visible police destination.
 
Glad the search is expanding.... dreading the coming days and what they find.
 
Chanler said:
Hi, SnapDragon; I like your posts.

We only have second-hand memories of what was said on the tape, but the mother did say that the person named on the 911 call was not the john.

A 21-minute 911 call is most unusual and we know that Shannan was on the phone in the presence of both the john and the driver. You are right to say that people do terrible things in the heat of the moment, but I think that they are much, much less likely to do them when another person (the driver) and a live police audio witness are present.

Some of my "take" on this incident derives from seeing strung out streetwalkers in my neighborhood. The combination of drugs, alcohol, physical abuse, fear, and sleeplessness took its toll on these poor women.
Click to expand...

Hi,
Someone else pointed out that the john was likely to be using an alias. If that is true, perhaps it was only that the name Shannon gave wasn't the one that is really his. If she was drunk, drugged, or just in a complete state of panic she might not even get the alias correct.

I'm not saying people do terrible things in the heat of the moment, I'm saying that if you are a SK and you are about to be outed by someone who is escaping down a dark street you might take the chance of trying to catch her and grab her, even if they are on the phone, or there's another person driving around somewhere. People grab people in broad daylight. If she ran off into the brush or to the beach, whose to say he didn't catch up to her undetected, since the police hadn't arrived and there was only the driver looking for her.

But if what the mother said is true, it sounds like she was on the phone and that it sounded to the listener like she was grabbed by somebody and the call ended.

Shannon was not like the strung out street walkers in your neighbourhood. She was an escort, working for herself. She was in another tier of prostitution altogether. I'm not saying she was the top rung - I don't think she was - but she was in that middle area. I have to look around and find the article that said she hired the driver herself....
 
Reannan said:
We don't really know what name Shannon had for the John. He could have called himself anything, right??
Click to expand...

Hi, Reannan. Two things: 1. The family said that Shannan knew the name of the person she feared. I assume that if it was the john (which the family said it wasn't) and she were as cogent as some here say, she would have said that she was in his house. 2. By the accounts of both the john and the driver, she didn't want to leave the house and remained there for some time. We have no reason to believe that they are confederates.
 
snapdragon2 said:
Hi,
Someone else pointed out that the john was likely to be using an alias. If that is true, perhaps it was only that the name Shannon gave wasn't the one that is really his. If she was drunk, drugged, or just in a complete state of panic she might not even get the alias correct.

I'm not saying people do terrible things in the heat of the moment, I'm saying that if you are a SK and you are about to be outed by someone who is escaping down a dark street you might take the chance of trying to catch her and grab her, even if they are on the phone, or there's another person driving around somewhere. People grab people in broad daylight. If she ran off into the brush or to the beach, whose to say he didn't catch up to her undetected, since the police hadn't arrived and there was only the driver looking for her.

But if what the mother said is true, it sounds like she was on the phone and that it sounded to the listener like she was grabbed by somebody and the call ended.

Shannon was not like the strung out street walkers in your neighbourhood. She was an escort, working for herself. She was in another tier of prostitution altogether. I'm not saying she was the top rung - I don't think she was - but she was in that middle area. I have to look around and find the article that said she hired the driver herself....
Click to expand...

Hi, SnapDragon, I'll address only one point: Using Craigslist does not put prostitutes on "another tier...altogether." (Ask the clients of the Craigslist killer.) Shannan was strung out; a talented young woman with a criminal record and drug problems. Decades ago, a talented dancer/choreographer I knew had a job at an upscale club for almost nude dancers near the United Nations. I'm told this was top tier, but my friend told me that she was nearly the only woman on her shift without a cocaine problem.

And one more: The john had her in the house. She was on the phone in the house. He was trying to make her leave the house. He didn't stop the call or, apparently, break down the door. He called the driver, who she had hired, to come into the house and then they both attempted to convince her leave. And then he went to murder her?
 
Verity said:
More from the above cited article for those who can't access directly:

Starting early Monday, State Police troopers, Nassau officers on horseback and others will begin to crisscross a 4-mile stretch between Tobay Beach Park and the Jones Beach tower.
"After Suffolk County found these four more bodies, it had to be done," said Nassau police spokesman Det. Lt. Kevin Smith.
The primary area of interest is a bramble-thick wildlife sanctuary and the adjacent, undeveloped state land between the parkway and South Oyster Bay, officials said.
Mounted police will traverse trails through the sanctuary for an elevated view, police said. Using the search method developed by Suffolk police this week, officers will mount raised firetruck buckets to move out over thickets. Others will be on foot.
A Nassau County medical examiner official will be on hand to distinguish animal bones from any others that are found. A police helicopter also will be used, Smith said. The search is expected to go at least into a second day.
All eight remains were discovered during searches for Gilbert, who has not been found and was last seen alive in Oak Beach on May 1. Like the remains of the four women initially found in December, Gilbert worked as a prostitute and advertised on the Craigslist website. Like the others, she went missing while visiting clients.
Fifty state troopers will participate next week, as will members of State Park Police, said Trooper Frank Bandiero of the State Police. The agency will also provide several cadaver dogs that participated in a December search over frozen ground that failed to reveal the four remains found recently in Suffolk.
Click to expand...

Gee, makes one wonder if these four new remains were there in Dec?
 
concentric said:
Could the "they're trying to kill me" mean she felt her employers were trying to make her vulnerable to a killer by insisting that she leave the home of JB without security knowing that other callgirls had disappeared from that area?
Click to expand...

The first four bodies were not found until after she disappeared that night therefore, Shannon would have no idea about missing girls.
Also, are we sure the girls that have been found so far were called to LI and killed there instead of driven there from some other place once they were killed?
 
Chanler said:
Hi, SnapDragon, I'll address only one point: Using Craigslist does not put prostitutes on "another tier...altogether." (Ask the clients of the Craigslist killer.) Shannan was strung out; a talented young woman with a criminal record and drug problems. Decades ago, a talented dancer/choreographer I knew had a job at an upscale club for almost nude dancers near the United Nations. I'm told this was top tier, but my friend told me that she was nearly the only woman on her shift without a cocaine problem.

And one more: The john had her in the house. She was on the phone in the house. He was trying to make her leave the house. He didn't stop the call or, apparently, break down the door. He called the driver, who she had hired, to come into the house and then they both attempted to convince her leave. And then he went to murder her?
Click to expand...

Chanier, I didn't say that "using Craigslist" put her on another tier altogether! I just said that Shannon WAS "on another tier altogether" from the women you describe in your neighbourhood. I made the comment because you said a lot of your "take" on this came from seeing strung out streetwalkers in your neighbourhood. If your comparison wasn't entirely accurate your take might not be either. (I don't mean that in an insulting way but rather to help; we're all trying to clarify everything as best we can so we can hopefully figure this out!)Street prostitutes, sadly, are at the very bottom of the heap - for whatever reason (and drugs would be a good one) they don't have the wherewithal to do better. Shannon did have the wherewithal to do better,and there is no evidence that she was "strung out", which I think is quite harsh. just because someone has used or does use drugs or alcohol doesn't make them "strung out." She might have been, but we don't really know that. We just know that she had a history of some drug use.

As for the john - we don't really know for certain what happened there either. Thats why I'm positing those theories, because it's such a mystery. The driver SAID JB called him and said she wouldn't leave. That doesn't mean it's true (either that JB did that, or that Shannon did in fact refuse to leave.) We don't know what happened exactly, and the little bit we have been told is weird and doesn't make any sense. I've also read conflicting things. I read that the driver corroborated JB's story (or vice versa) but I don't recall the description of what JB said to be the same as what I've read the driver said, and I also seem to recall there was a discrepancy in the time frame of each of their stories. Let's face it - it's all too sketchy to really tell for certain, but that's why I'm speculating - to see if there is any possibility of making sense of it. Perhaps not, but isn't the purpose of this site is to toss around ideas and brainstorm? I'm trying to figure out what might have happened if either of them were the perpetrator, and how that would fit in with what they said and what we know did in fact happen, and that would include taking into consideration their accounts might not be true.

With regard to your last comment - I'm just saying, what if it was in fact the john she was afraid of, but that had taken him by surprise (not his intention to do anything to her) and he was alarmed - if he was the SK. He would be in a panic too, not necessarily thinking all that clearly. Who's to say he knew exactly who she was talking to or what she had said - maybe he just wanted her out at that point (what other choice would he have?) But once she was out, and running around the neighbourhood, he could have decided to try to take action, although that hadn't been his original intention (he saw the opportunity and took it?) She was running around in the dark, if he could get her and shut her up without anyone seeing, why wouldn't he? Why wouldn't he try, if he had a lot at stake?
I have to go to bed, my is starting to hurt!
 
snapdragon2 said:
Chanier, I didn't say that "using Craigslist" put her on another tier altogether! I just said that Shannon WAS "on another tier altogether" from the women you describe in your neighbourhood. I made the comment because you said a lot of your "take" on this came from seeing strung out streetwalkers in your neighbourhood. If your comparison wasn't entirely accurate your take might not be either. (I don't mean that in an insulting way but rather to help; we're all trying to clarify everything as best we can so we can hopefully figure this out!)Street prostitutes, sadly, are at the very bottom of the heap - for whatever reason (and drugs would be a good one) they don't have the wherewithal to do better. Shannon did have the wherewithal to do better,and there is no evidence that she was "strung out", which I think is quite harsh. just because someone has used or does use drugs or alcohol doesn't make them "strung out." She might have been, but we don't really know that. We just know that she had a history of some drug use.

As for the john - we don't really know for certain what happened there either. Thats why I'm positing those theories, because it's such a mystery. The driver SAID JB called him and said she wouldn't leave. That doesn't mean it's true (either that JB did that, or that Shannon did in fact refuse to leave.) We don't know what happened exactly, and the little bit we have been told is weird and doesn't make any sense. I've also read conflicting things. I read that the driver corroborated JB's story (or vice versa) but I don't recall the description of what JB said to be the same as what I've read the driver said, and I also seem to recall there was a discrepancy in the time frame of each of their stories. Let's face it - it's all too sketchy to really tell for certain, but that's why I'm speculating - to see if there is any possibility of making sense of it. Perhaps not, but isn't the purpose of this site is to toss around ideas and brainstorm? I'm trying to figure out what might have happened if either of them were the perpetrator, and how that would fit in with what they said and what we know did in fact happen, and that would include taking into consideration their accounts might not be true.

With regard to your last comment - I'm just saying, what if it was in fact the john she was afraid of, but that had taken him by surprise (not his intention to do anything to her) and he was alarmed - if he was the SK. He would be in a panic too, not necessarily thinking all that clearly. Who's to say he knew exactly who she was talking to or what she had said - maybe he just wanted her out at that point (what other choice would he have?) But once she was out, and running around the neighbourhood, he could have decided to try to take action, although that hadn't been his original intention (he saw the opportunity and took it?) She was running around in the dark, if he could get her and shut her up without anyone seeing, why wouldn't he? Why wouldn't he try, if he had a lot at stake?
I have to go to bed, my is starting to hurt!
Click to expand...

A special thank you Snapdragon. To hear what you've learned only augments our discussion. In a fast moving case where LE isn't giving out much, locals are invaluable. ;}
 
What if shannon has NO link to the other victims?

In looking for her they stumbled across a *dumping ground* (I HATE that phrase) of a serial killer?

If this guy is as *practiced* as he seems to be then 1. he would not harm her knowing she has a driver waiting and 2. He would not let her near her phone. Despite being an escort whom advertised on craigslist she does not have a lot else in common with the other vics. I know SK's get cocky the more they kill (ted bundy being an example....) but I don't see him taking a girl into his home/a house and not asking her how she got there, and her not being forthcoming about having a driver.

Just an idea....

Perhaps this driver has something to do with her vanishing but not the others. Heck of a coinkydink I know, but and Idea none the less.
 
The facebook is helpful IMO.

Something on there reminded me of the Phone calls one of the other victims in the case got after there family member went missing. I also noticed (now) that Shannons mother hinted at something in media statement.
 
Soulmagent said:
The facebook is helpful IMO.

Something on there reminded me of the Phone calls one of the other victims in the case got after there family member went missing. I also noticed (now) that Shannons mother hinted at something in media statement.
Click to expand...

Maybe that is another common factor here, that the perp keeps their cell phones.
 
Cops: LI killer is in our sights
Link to Atlantic City hooker murders
By LARRY CELONA, SELIM ALGAR, KIERAN CROWLEY and BOB FREDERICKS
Last Updated: 2:08 AM, April 8, 2011
Posted: 1:18 AM, April 8, 2011

Cops on Long Island are "looking at somebody," said a law-enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation.

He refused to elaborate.

The stunning revelation comes as police are exploring a possible link between the serial killer -- suspected of dumping the bodies of eight victims along a remote Suffolk beachfront -- and the grisly murders of four hookers in Atlantic City in 2006.

"Our homicide detectives are in touch with the [Atlantic City] police," a Suffolk police spokesman told reporters.​
Full article: click here
 
shadowraiths said:
Cops: LI killer is in our sights
Link to Atlantic City hooker murders
By LARRY CELONA, SELIM ALGAR, KIERAN CROWLEY and BOB FREDERICKS
Last Updated: 2:08 AM, April 8, 2011
Posted: 1:18 AM, April 8, 2011

Cops on Long Island are "looking at somebody," said a law-enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation.

He refused to elaborate.

The stunning revelation comes as police are exploring a possible link between the serial killer -- suspected of dumping the bodies of eight victims along a remote Suffolk beachfront -- and the grisly murders of four hookers in Atlantic City in 2006.

"Our homicide detectives are in touch with the [Atlantic City] police," a Suffolk police spokesman told reporters.​
Full article: click here[/QUOTE


Thanks Shadowraiths! I sure sounds like LE is eyeing a potential suspect! That is welcome news.

I really wish these news outlets would STOP using the word HOOKER to describe these women. I find it offensive and disrespectful to the victims. MOO

wm
Click to expand...
 
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