Identified! NY - Mount Vernon, WhtFem 51UFNY, 18-25, Left Near Junkyard, Feb'88 - Veronica Wiederhold

[cvaldez1975]

I would really like to finish reading that article, but as soon as I get the the "black cowboy federation" part, the article blows up to a ginormous size and wont scroll.

Great find, Al Ka. I don't remember Robin Vitulli's case, but yes, Amber St. in Brooklyn where she was dumped, is known as The Hole. It's a very spooky looking place. The Hole refers not just to Amber St. but is the name of the neighborhood.

http://ny.curbed.com/2014/6/24/10084028/tour-the-hole-nycs-rundown-brooklyn-queens-border-town

Mount Vernon has a mob history, I don't know the extent, but they do still operate some businesses here. I know one family who is involved and another guy who was rumored to be a big deal mob guy, but he died several years back (probably close to 10 years ago really). Huge turn out for his funeral. I would not be surprised that MVJD knew something she shouldn't know and that's how they got rid of her. IIRC the mob did have a lot of dealings in the part of town where she was found.

 

[cvaldez1975]

maybe LE never confirmed she was positioned on the springs like a cross, because the springs rolled and they weren't sure? I always wondered how they positioned her on something that may roll.

 

[jessr927]

I would really like to finish reading that article, but as soon as I get the the "black cowboy federation" part, the article blows up to a ginormous size and wont scroll.

Try this one http://www.newsweek.com/2015/07/24/hole-lot-nothing-352623.html

 

[Al Ka]

If so, could her killer be a religious fanatic who was making a religious statement?

Apologies for quoting again the same, but I have given more thought about this as being possible scenario and it does send chills through me even thinking about it.. If this was the case, it would mean that killer was not cold headed manipulative show off but rather cold hearted deluded fanatic full of anger and hatred and I absolutely agree with Catherine, in this scenario he would definitely kill again. You just do not turn off hate and anger next day off. This scenario would also rule out Alejandro Henriquez as possible perp, as he killed for sexual gratification rather then religious beliefs or hatred.

It does make me think more of Virgin Mary again too, and about MVJD being clean shaven, representing clean virgin?

(above and below are just my humble thoughts)

Another thing I was wondering about... we know MVJD was not wearing anything, but does anyone know if she had any make up on when found? I mean foundation, eye pencil, mascara? In post mortem photo it does not seem that way but she was washed already.

Now, very silly question... set of springs - does it mean 2 springs, 6 springs or? (please someone teach me English :facepalm: )

LE have confirmed what I previously thought and stated here about MVJD being killed nearby. My reasoning was location being quiet, secluded industrial area, but I think LE would not make that statement without having found some solid undisclosed prove. What could they find that would link her to that area? (Springs??? --->speculation) Did those now famous springs really came from that junkyard opposite her??? This are just rhetoric questions and I do not think we will probably know the answer until case is solved, however I wonder if we could try to ask LE about the position of those springs and if it was really cross, of course if they could disclose that to us.

I know all of us have a bit different thoughts and views about this case...

• The reason I do not think this was an accident - when accidents happen our natural response is to panic. There is absolutely nothing showing panic in that scene.
• The reason I do not think this was long term partner or hubby - they usually try to hide bodies (of wifes) with a lot of effort, furthest or deepest way possible. Possibility of anyone ever finding the body would link to them within minutes. Again, does not look like scenario here.
• Remorse or undoing - as discussed before - at least for me, I see none in here. No covering of her, no showing any emotion towards her or caring but rather opposite, showing her off...

I am currently looking into Sarah Fox case as her scene was piece of something too, however it happened in 2004 and there are lots of conflicting details from different journalists.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?7852-NY-Sarah-Fox-21-Inwood-Hill-NYC-19-May-2004
I will try to look in near future to more cases where scene or bodies were positioned, just to see if there any similarities anywhere...

Anyone know any good criminal profiler who could share their thoughts with us on this case (on MVJD, scene and perp)?

 

[CarlK90245]

Another thing I was wondering about... we know MVJD was not wearing anything, but does anyone know if she had any make up on when found? I mean foundation, eye pencil, mascara? In post mortem photo it does not seem that way but she was washed already.

In the PM photo from the crime scene, she does not appear to be wearing any makeup. Definitely no lipstick. No blush or foundation on her face, as her freckles are very visible. her eyelashes are covering her lower eyelids, so I can't see for sure, but she doesn't appear to be wearing eyeliner. And her eyelashes are slightly brownish, so there doesn't appear to be any mascara on her eyelashes.

 

[jessr927]

You know, Carl, now that I think about it, that's odd. You figure a young attractive woman going out on a Saturday night, Valentine's weekend nonetheless, with manicured nails and possibly dyed or frosted hair, would have put on makeup before going out whether it was alone to a club or with a boyfriend on a date. Hmm.

Al ka, what is your first language? Your English seems very good to me, I understand everything you write!

Also, I just got word from LoHud that although they will not run a follow up story on MVJD, they will add her to the list of unsolved murders in the Lower Hudson Valley area of Westchester County that they have been publishing. Here is an example: http://www.lohud.com/story/news/2016/02/03/lauren-spierer-unsolved-murders/79523444/

 

[cvaldez1975]

OFF TOPIC what is a thread prefix? I am on mobile and trying to post a threa and keep getting an error saying "must select thread prefix" however NOWHERE does it even give an option for a thread prefix?

 

[CarlK90245]

OFF TOPIC what is a thread prefix? I am on mobile and trying to post a threa and keep getting an error saying "must select thread prefix" however NOWHERE does it even give an option for a thread prefix?

NY (for New York)

 

[rats]

Hm... How about Barbara Cotton?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2921/23/
http://doenetwork.org/cases/1dfnd.html

 

[cvaldez1975]

Thanks! I was trying to make a new thread for a torso found in CA and I put CA in the title. Other than that I couldn't find where to add such a prefix?

NY (for New York)

 

[cvaldez1975]

Like it just has a space for title, then message, then tags. I can't find where a prefix would be.

 

[jessr927]

Have not forgotten about you, sweet girl <3

 

[Roselvr]

You know, Carl, now that I think about it, that's odd. You figure a young attractive woman going out on a Saturday night, Valentine's weekend nonetheless, with manicured nails and possibly dyed or frosted hair, would have put on makeup before going out whether it was alone to a club or with a boyfriend on a date. Hmm.

Al ka, what is your first language? Your English seems very good to me, I understand everything you write!

Also, I just got word from LoHud that although they will not run a follow up story on MVJD, they will add her to the list of unsolved murders in the Lower Hudson Valley area of Westchester County that they have been publishing. Here is an example: http://www.lohud.com/story/news/2016/02/03/lauren-spierer-unsolved-murders/79523444/

I have never been one to wear make up. Occasionally I did but not that often. I was more into wearing jewelry and the large colorful earrings we had back then.

 

[catherine.]

I agree with Roselvr. I'm in MVJD's age range, and I don't wear a lot of makeup unless it's a really special occasion like a wedding.

Some women in other countries don't wear as much makeup as in the United States. I saw an article about the perception of beauty around the world and a lot of them have a more natural appearance. Although I guess she could have been abducted/murdered before she had time to get ready for the evening which could explain the lack of makeup.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks! I was trying to make a new thread for a torso found in CA and I put CA in the title. Other than that I couldn't find where to add such a prefix?

You can alert on it, and in the message, ask a mod to fix it. Or just send a message to the mods.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tatsachen]

This case remains on my mind, not only because it was local to me, but also b/c it was so vicious and brazen. I am well aware that MVPD is not the most well-funded department in the country, so if there is ever a time when isotope testing or re-testing her DNA is seen as feasible, I would happy to chip in.

Reading through the case file and the articles written, it strikes me that we don't know how the cocaine that was found in her system got there. Was it ingested nasally? Or was she smoking crack? The distinction is important insofar as it would give us some indication of what sort of social circles she was in and what her lifestyle may have been like. The other matter I wonder about are her dentals. Everything I've seen indicates that she had all her natural teeth with no fillings or other remarkable features. While the idea that she came from abroad is quite reasonable if for no other reason than that she was found (maybe) a mile from NYC, I am skeptical that someone from a place without flouridated water living what may have been a transient or high-risk lifestyle would have such healthy teeth. While it is plausible that she may have only been in such a state for a short period prior to her death, my experience is that teeth can go south on you in a hurry without regular maintenance or access to basic care. I would surmise from this that she's at the very least North American, and quite possibly a local who fell through the cracks. Regardless, it's a shameful story, and I hope at the very least we can one day put a name to a face.

I've lived away from there for a while now, but whenever I go back home, I drive by Carleton. It remains as forlorn and out of the way as it ever has. I am convinced that the location wasn't chosen at random. I just can't decipher the reasoning behind it.

 

[jessr927]

This case remains on my mind, not only because it was local to me, but also b/c it was so vicious and brazen. I am well aware that MVPD is not the most well-funded department in the country, so if there is ever a time when isotope testing or re-testing her DNA is seen as feasible, I would happy to chip in.

Are you from MV? I am. Born & raised - moved away for 6 years but just moved back. Another person from this thread, and I, have been trying to coordinate with Det. DiMase to look into isotope testing for Jane Doe.

Reading through the case file and the articles written, it strikes me that we don't know how the cocaine that was found in her system got there. Was it ingested nasally? Or was she smoking crack? The distinction is important insofar as it would give us some indication of what sort of social circles she was in and what her lifestyle may have been like.

I believe Catherine had some insight on this a few pages back. We don't know for certain how it was taken, but I believe that it was snorted for two reasons. 1, early 1988 would have been around the beginning of crack coming to suburbs of the city and 2. if she had smoked it that night, she must have been pretty new to crack because of her teeth being in good condition. Most people I know from MV, Yonkers, etc. who experimented with drugs at that time said that coke was not very expensive then.

The other matter I wonder about are her dentals. Everything I've seen indicates that she had all her natural teeth with no fillings or other remarkable features. While the idea that she came from abroad is quite reasonable if for no other reason than that she was found (maybe) a mile from NYC, I am skeptical that someone from a place without flouridated water living what may have been a transient or high-risk lifestyle would have such healthy teeth. While it is plausible that she may have only been in such a state for a short period prior to her death, my experience is that teeth can go south on you in a hurry without regular maintenance or access to basic care. I would surmise from this that she's at the very least North American, and quite possibly a local who fell through the cracks. Regardless, it's a shameful story, and I hope at the very least we can one day put a name to a face.

Good insight. I would not have thought of that, but I don't have a scientific mind.

I've lived away from there for a while now, but whenever I go back home, I drive by Carleton. It remains as forlorn and out of the way as it ever has. I am convinced that the location wasn't chosen at random. I just can't decipher the reasoning behind it.

My friend Joe, whose family has been in MV for generations, seemed to think it might have been mob connected. I believe they still do have some businesses down by Carleton and I am sure they had more in the 1980s when there were more Italians still living here.

Please like our FB page for MVJD, Tatsachen. Your summary was really helpful.

 

[catherine.]

You bring up a great point, Tatsachen. I never even thought of fluoridated water. I grew up in a rural area in the mid 90's-early 00's, and we chewed fluoride tablets. The US began fluoridated water in the 40's; I wonder when other nations began to practice this.

One of the other threads had some information on the cost of isotope testing, but I can't remember who found it or which thread I read it in.

 

[Roselvr]

Are you from MV? I am. Born & raised - moved away for 6 years but just moved back. Another person from this thread, and I, have been trying to coordinate with Det. DiMase to look into isotope testing for Jane Doe.



I believe Catherine had some insight on this a few pages back. We don't know for certain how it was taken, but I believe that it was snorted for two reasons. 1, early 1988 would have been around the beginning of crack coming to suburbs of the city and 2. if she had smoked it that night, she must have been pretty new to crack because of her teeth being in good condition. Most people I know from MV, Yonkers, etc. who experimented with drugs at that time said that coke was not very expensive then.



Good insight. I would not have thought of that, but I don't have a scientific mind.



My friend Joe, whose family has been in MV for generations, seemed to think it might have been mob connected. I believe they still do have some businesses down by Carleton and I am sure they had more in the 1980s when there were more Italians still living here.

Please like our FB page for MVJD, Tatsachen. Your summary was really helpful.

MVJD FB Page

You bring up a great point, Tatsachen. I never even thought of fluoridated water. I grew up in a rural area in the mid 90's-early 00's, and we chewed fluoride tablets. The US began fluoridated water in the 40's; I wonder when other nations began to practice this.

One of the other threads had some information on the cost of isotope testing, but I can't remember who found it or which thread I read it in.

The Smithsonian donates the isotope testing. DiMase was given the info for someone else that had it done for 2 Does, so they can put him in contact with them.

 

[Tatsachen]

I'm glad I could help. I'm glad that there's an opportunity for forensic science to grant further insights on this case. I've been in Chicago for the last three years, but I grew up in Co-Op City, about 2 miles away from Carleton. My best friends in high school all lived on or around Sandford Blvd. I probably spent more time in Southside MV and Wakefield once I became a teenager than I did in my own neighborhood. It remains an important place for me even now, which is one of the reasons I find this case so unnerving.