NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[CHERIE.T]

Here is where I think the humanity is lost. Yes, he was breaking the law. Selling loose cigarettes, as far as I can tell, is not a Class 1 Felony warranting the death penalty.

I posted that yesterday and was met with the replies that --
whatever crime he committed >>>>
did not matter.

 

[Cubby]

Here's a story that doesn't appear to be getting too much attention:
White Ex-Cop Charged in Killing of Black Man in SC

The Cop was still on duty at the time of the killing.




http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sc-cop-charged-murder-unarmed-man-shooting-27362718

 

[Nana]

Do these states not have a three strick law???
They sure do in Florida. If they don't maybe they should.

 

[CoolJ]

The point is if he had a real job and wasn't breaking the law selling "loosies" this would not have happened.

So what you saying is that police brutality can only happen to non-criminals. If you are a criminal anything goes?

 

[CoolJ]

I just watched the arrest video again. I am wondering if SG was agitated and resisting because at that moment, he was not selling loose cigs. He had just broken up a fight IIRC and he seemed frustrated that he was being accused of something he wasn't doing at that moment. IMO

Did they even seize cigs for him?

 

[Zuri]

I haven't read this entire thread, but has it been mentioned a person can not speak if they can not breath? Breath is necessary to be able to speak. IOW, if someone can speak - they can breathe. If the GJ works on reasonable doubt - his ability to speak leaves one to wonder - did he die as a result of an asthma attack, or the choke hold?

When I was a kid I choked on a jawbreaker. I could not speak. I had to use my arms to alert my mom I could not breath. Having experienced choking first hand, I don't know how anyone choking can speak.

Glad you were ok! What may be misleading here is the word "chokehold". In choking, let's say on food, the food goes into the trachea instead of the esophagus. If you can't talk, your airway is occluded. In this case, the chokehold didn't cause him to choke. IMO, the force used while he was face down on the ground, disallowing his lungs to inflate as necessary, combined with his asthma/acute bronchospasm, morbid obesity, poor physicality (did you notice how he had sweat marks on his chest and back of his tee shirt while he was arguing with LE?), underlying medical problems, was a perfect storm that led to his death. JMO, IMO.

 

[Elley Mae]

Most people wouldn't try and argue or resist arrest either.

Evidently this needs to be a class that is taught in lets say,,, elementary school. Do not involve yourself in illegal activity and do not resist arrest. Do we (usa) have a new wave of people that do not understand the laws? It amazes me that people think they can just tell the police to leave them alone. Once you give them reason to even think you are doing something wrong or hiding something, chances are they are not going to turn and walk away.

 

[Nana]

Here's a story that doesn't appear to be getting too much attention:
White Ex-Cop Charged in Killing of Black Man in SC

The Cop was still on duty at the time of the killing.




http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sc-cop-charged-murder-unarmed-man-shooting-27362718

Never mind!
Deleted my own post!!!

 

[Zuri]

I could ask the same question about any number of other cases, with varied victims, varied perps, of every color of the rainbow. There was a particularly heinous one in the Boston area when I was a teen, involving two white boys who killed third brutally, for the admitted thrill of it. So I'm wondering why you picked that one case in particular to highlight, as if it represents some larger issue.

Because I think it's disingenuous to ask why this case is getting a lot of attention. We all know why, and it's kind of defeating the purpose of a discussion thread, IMO, to forbid that reason to be discussed, but oh well. To follow rules I will say what I am sure you already know - this case is garnering loads of national attention not simply because it was videoed, not simply because to so many of us the response of force was patently excessive, but also because it is indicative of a larger, systemic problem that for some reason we are not allowed to discuss here, even though it is one of, if not THE biggest issue at hand in this case.

But again, Id like to know why you chose that particular thrill killing to mention, instead of say, I dunno, Leopold and Loeb?


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You make an interesting point. Truthfully, the ethnicity of LE nor Mr. Garner never entered my mind. And I never even would use "thrill kill" associated with this case. I don't even know why that was brought up earlier. What I am not getting?

ETA: NM. I just saw where the wife said this was a "thrill killing". IMO, NOT.

 

[Zuri]

When you break the law and resist arrest anything can happen, if he would have just turned around and let the cops cuff him this might not have happened. This was his 30th+ arrest he should have know the drill by now.

I agree. However, this certainly could have been handled much better. Again, my point: The humanity was lost.

 

[Charlie09]

Did they even seize cigs for him?

Don't know for sure, but it looks like it was a concerted effort to crack down on the illegal cigarettes...
I don't know how to avoid the politics of a police state, and this is the end result -

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/wife-man-filmed-chokehold-arrested-article-1.1893790

I really do think the officer that performed the choke hold is responsible for Garner's death--but that is based on media biased editing of the tape, and what the media has released - I haven't seen or read what the Grand Jury saw or had access to -

 

[Elley Mae]

You make an interesting point. Truthfully, the ethnicity of LE nor Mr. Garner never entered my mind. And I never even would use "thrill kill" associated with this case. I don't even know why that was brought up earlier. What I am not getting?

Eric Garner's mother said it was a thrill kill.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/be...swire.com/news/garners-mom-it-was-a-thrill-ki

 

[Gardenlady]

You make an interesting point. Truthfully, the ethnicity of LE nor Mr. Garner never entered my mind. And I never even would use "thrill kill" associated with this case. I don't even know why that was brought up earlier. What I am not getting?

ETA: NM. I just saw where the wife said this was a "thrill killing". IMO, NOT.

I think she has a point in that, more than one officer was piling on her son, and the atmosphere feels like everyone got way out of control on this guy. We all are familiar with the psychology of crowds and groups - people can suddenly feel willing able to engage in behaviors that, alone, they might not engage in. Coming to mind is the beating of Rodney King, picturing those multiple LE surrounding him and engaging in the behavior.

Edit- forgot to add that I think that's what she was getting at by thrill. Like thy were all caught up in the thrill or excitement or sense of out-of-control of the moment.

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[Gardenlady]

You make an interesting point. Truthfully, the ethnicity of LE nor Mr. Garner never entered my mind. And I never even would use "thrill kill" associated with this case. I don't even know why that was brought up earlier. What I am not getting?

.

Also wanted to address the other part of your post about the varied ethnicities of both Mr Garner and those responsible for his death: I mentioned what I did because a poster asked why Mr Garner's case is getting so much attention, and not the other, irrelevant one that was mentioned. And my response was that I think we all already know why, because Mr Garner's case is indicative of larger, more systemic, nationwide problem that unfortunately cannot be discussed in this thread. Be that as it may, it's still one of the the biggest reasons it is getting so much attention (in addition to the fact that we have video of the incident, which always makes a story get more attention).


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[CHERIE.T]

Evidently this needs to be a class that is taught in lets say,,, elementary school. Do not involve yourself in illegal activity and do not resist arrest. Do we (usa) have a new wave of people that do not understand the laws? It amazes me that people think they can just tell the police to leave them alone. Once you give them reason to even think you are doing something wrong or hiding something, chances are they are not going to turn and walk away.

A simple thanks wasn't enough. :tyou:

 

[bexlex]

The medics were reassigned after a second video surfaced showing at least a half-dozen police officers and emergency workers circling a man who appears to be Garner lying on the sidewalk, handcuffed and unresponsive.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/07...staten-island-man-who-died-in-police-custody/


“It’s crazy, and I was like, ‘Perform CPR on him,’ and they was like, ‘He don’t need CPR,'” said Taisha Allen, who pulled out her phone to record the incident. “He was not breathing at the time.”
But officers said Garner was breathing.
“I think they did not do their job,” said Angela Ramos of the Tompkinsville neighborhood where the incident happened, “and that they need to be retrained.”
EMTs can then be seen in the video briefly checking Garner’s condition and putting him on a gurney to take him to the hospital.

The heart attack was secondary to asphyxia and why do you think he was still breathing? Clearly to me it looked like he was unresponsive and not breathing or at least in serious respiratory distress. What happened to him was wrong (professional error) and what didn't happen as he lay on the pavement dying before our eyes was negligent (professional omission)
IMO

Have any of guys seen the second video? The reason they don't perform CPR is because he is already dead. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/eric-garner-chokehold-death_n_5602443.html

 

[CHERIE.T]

Have any of guys seen the second video? The reason they don't perform CPR is because he is already dead. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/eric-garner-chokehold-death_n_5602443.html

Won't let me watch the video without signing up for their email... ugh.

 

[bexlex]

Have any of guys seen the second video? The reason they don't perform CPR is because he is already dead. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/eric-garner-chokehold-death_n_5602443.html

I'm sorry to quote myself as it is bad form.... but..... look at the 2nd video.... the police man checks his pulse a lot and the EMT lady checks it and decides to just put him on the gurney. There are so many people filming, including this lady who is in the doorway of the shop. I think they (the police, EMT) are in CYA mode in the video

 

[Cubby]

So what you saying is that police brutality can only happen to non-criminals. If you are a criminal anything goes?

I know this question wasn't directed towards me. however, I don't think anyone can dispute the fact that if EG had not resisted arrest, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

No, I do not think he deserved "the death penalty" so to speak, but I also can't say he carries no responsibility for resisting.

...and I can't say the prior breaking up a fight, his obvious health issues and resisting did not contribute to his inability to breathe.

IF this had gone to trial, I don't think a guilty verdict could be obtained without reasonable doubt. Unless a ME or expert could confirm his obesity, asthma and breaking up a prior fight did not contribute to his death. Were those other things ruled out? Maybe, I missed it, if they were.

 

[bexlex]

Won't let me watch the video without signing up for their email... ugh.

Cherie, the video is on youtube a bunch, if that helps. I didn't link it cuz.... youtube.....