NY NY - Patrick Alford, 7, Brooklyn, 22 Jan 2010 - #1

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

When police dogs picked up a scent at OF's Staten Island home, police searched the house.

"The only thing I knew about the kid is what I seen in the newspaper and what they said last night," he told CBS 2.

http://wcbstv.com/local/brooklyn.boy.search.2.1450832.html?detectflash=false


This is from an old article, but I'd still like to know what was up with this search. What led them to search there? Why would Patrick's scent be there if he didn't know him? OF said that he didn't have a clue about Patrick, except for what the news had said. I know search dogs aren't always 100% correct, but something isn't adding up here. A missing child's scent doesn't just show up at your house randomly.

I know LE has done a very, very thorough investigation. But I'm still curious about this OF of Mariner's Harbor, Staten Island, New York. Can anyone dig anything up?

 

[CHICANA]

Bio-mom definitely has her share of issues. Unfortunately, that got Patrick taken away. I do wonder why, if the court was told of abuse issues in dad's home, they didn't opt for placement with another family member? Maybe mom had issues with those too. Who knows.

And regarding foster mom...I think that maybe her changing her story so much was because of her trying to cover up that she let Patrick take out the trash alone. She let a 7 year old, who said he was going to run away, out on his own. And she felt guilty.

IMO, bio-mom and foster mom both made some bad decisions that probably weren't the best for Patrick. But I don't think either of them had any direct involvement with his disappearance.

Maybe she was under the impression that she couldn't lose all rights to her children unless she had actually done something to them.
Yes, she had issues, but absent abuse shouldn't she have had a say in who was taking care of them ? She was charged with stealing not child abuse and she also had a drug problem. She wanted help because she knew her children deserved better.Why did she lose her right to parent her children when she hadn't hurt them ? Patrick had too many people who loved him and were ready to step up to the plate in spite of his mother's faults. There's no reason why the mom shouldn't have been able to arrange for a family member to take care of him while she was in jail and getting the help she needed. That would have been best for Patrick, and we likely would never have heard of him because he would be with someone who loved him.
This child was obviously loved, he was so desperate to go home. We don't even know what accusations were made against the girlfriend, it sure doesn't sound like they investigated it.
IDK, but I think mom thought she might be able to keep them and they listened to her when she said she didn't want Patrick to go with Dad and his girlfriend. I don't like the CW, she blamed their decision on the mom. Aren't they supposed to make the best choice for the child when they take over ?
Once they had custody, they were responsible. It sounds more like they were punishing the mom than looking out for the child and that's not their job.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

I don't disagree with you, Chicana. I think that Patrick, and his sister, should have been placed with family. But unfortunately, if mom has a complaint of possible abuse, they still have to place the children somewhere while they investigate it. It sounds like they did investigate, because it was determined that mom was lying, exaggerating, or something about it was not true. And no, I don't think she should have had them taken away. But they were.

While I don't agree with everything that DCFS has done in this case, discussing it now is, as the article put it, a moot point. Patrick's sister is now with her father. And Patrick is still missing. Even if we determine that DCFS is 100% negligent in this...how does that help?

Finding fault is not important. Finding Patrick is.

 

[CHICANA]

I don't disagree with you, Chicana. I think that Patrick, and his sister, should have been placed with family. But unfortunately, if mom has a complaint of possible abuse, they still have to place the children somewhere while they investigate it. It sounds like they did investigate, because it was determined that mom was lying, exaggerating, or something about it was not true. And no, I don't think she should have had them taken away. But they were.

While I don't agree with everything that DCFS has done in this case, discussing it now is, as the article put it, a moot point. Patrick's sister is now with her father. And Patrick is still missing. Even if we determine that DCFS is 100% negligent in this...how does that help?

Finding fault is not important. Finding Patrick is.

It upset me when I read that the CW was holding Patrick's mom responsible for their poor choices in addition to her own.
I'm not sure they had to place Patrick somewhere while they investigated accusations made by someone they deemed unfit to take care of her own children. Depending on the allegations they could have asked dad to have the gf move until they completed the investigation. For all we know, she could have accused the gf of yelling at them or something equally minor. They don't specify what the supposed abuse was.

Since there's really no new news, discussing something relating to Patrick seems better than nothing, and I commented based on my impression that the linked article was highly critical of DCFS.

 

[redsky]

It seems like a whole lot of nothing is being done at this point. This case has touched me from the start and while I would love to see a happy ending - I fear this will not be the case. :banghead:

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

I agree that discussing anything to do with Patrick is better than nothing.

Redsky, a lot of the work for Patrick was apparently done out of the eyes of the media. A recent article said, "Police said it is among the most intense searches in recent history with 9,100 apartments at 214 buildings canvassed and 14,000 people interviewed." So it's not that they're not doing anything. We just didn't hear about it. Unfortunately, the number of officers on Patrick's case has recently been cut from 30 to 4. But, with LE doing a lot of the work out of the spotlight, it really doesn't leave us with much to do here.

They said all RSOs have been interviewed, but maybe we should go back through and see if any stand out? Any near a bus stop? Can anyone find out the exact locations of the bus stops? Closest to Patrick's foster mom's apartment? That's something we don't know yet.

 

[webrocket]

Maybe she felt the girlfriend was abusive at times, it doesn't mean she lied, and why would the court punish Patrick because his mom lied ? Shouldn't there have been some evidence that Patrick would be at risk with his dad before giving the children to strangers ? Didn't they investigate the abuse allegations against Dad's girlfriend ? Foster care was not the only option in this case. Not even close.
I wouldn't want my ex's girlfriend to raise my kids, I might not agree with her parenting and I might think she's mean but if I had no other choice and I felt it was best for my children to be with their father than strangers, I would do the same thing.
Asking that Patrick go with his dad was the most unselfish thing she could have done. The way things are supposed to work (they don't), it should be harder to get a child back from their parent than the state. IMO, she knew that she might not ever get custody back from the dad but she was willing to risk it so that Patrick wouldn't suffer. It has to be terrifying to be taken from everything and everyone you know and love.

One of the lowest things a person can do (short of actually harming a child) is to falsely accuse another adult of child abuse. Once that accusation is made, some people never shake it off, even if the allegation was false all along.

You see the removal of Patrick as punishing him for his mother's poor choices. In hindsight it might be. However, if bio-mom had no qualms about falsely accusing others of child abuse, what makes you think that Patrick was harm-free by living with his bio-mom?

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Okay, I found the bus map for Brooklyn. http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/busbkln.pdf Like I said earlier, I'm a small town girl. I probably couldn't interpret a bus map to save my life. But...it looks like there is a bus stop very close to the Parkway. So, with them saying that they traced his scent to the Parkway, and then changing it to say they traced it to a bus stop...it could be the same thing.

The attachment below shows Patrick's area of the bus system. The yellow circle was added by me to highlight his specific location. From my limited skills of interpreting bus maps, this is what I see. Towards the Parkway, there is the 82 bus...which goes between that stop and Coney Island. It also looks like there's the Express Bus 2 and 5 that stop there, and go to downtown and midtown. The 83 also stops in that area and goes to Broadway junction.

Now, Patrick may or may not have gotten on a bus. So this may all be useless. But I think it's worth at least knowing and taking a look at.

 

[Kat]

When police dogs picked up a scent at OF's Staten Island home, police searched the house.

"The only thing I knew about the kid is what I seen in the newspaper and what they said last night," he told CBS 2.

http://wcbstv.com/local/brooklyn.boy.search.2.1450832.html?detectflash=false


This is from an old article, but I'd still like to know what was up with this search. What led them to search there? Why would Patrick's scent be there if he didn't know him? OF said that he didn't have a clue about Patrick, except for what the news had said. I know search dogs aren't always 100% correct, but something isn't adding up here. A missing child's scent doesn't just show up at your house randomly.

I know LE has done a very, very thorough investigation. But I'm still curious about this Omar Ford of Mariner's Harbor, Staten Island, New York. Can anyone dig anything up?

I'll work it I4G give me some time. In the process of a move here

 

[Kat]

Very easy to locate I4G. I didn't see anything that struck me as curious abouNt him from what I saw. I did a search of the NY inmate and NY sex offender search. No hits.

Off topic but this man may have a prior tour in Military, more than likely Navy. Went to college. etc.

I found what I believe might be his address but don't want to post it without mod approval because he isn't a POI but his address was one of the places the child's scent was found. Maybe we could take out his full name in our posts and then post the address and a map of the area? I dunno. Let me know what you want to do.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Thanks, Kat. Without anything standing out to us, I don't think we need to post his address. Especially since he isn't on the sex offender registry. Patrick's scent may have been found there, but without anything else...I'm not sure what we can do.

Didn't really expect anything to stand out, as we probably would have heard about it if there was. But I think it was worth checking out, just in case.

Thanks again for looking! Good luck with your move!

 

[Kat]

There is overlapping public transit in NYC and staten Island area. The quickest way travel or remove someone from an area would be the Subway (train). (This information is my Husband's opinion he was born and lived in NYC area until he was a young adult. Also, he said that children there are taught very early to use the subway)
I4G

I looked up the address (what I think is the address) and there is a station located on Grant Avenue. A 16 minute walk. Although, there might be one quicker (I have to look at the map with my Husband).

If you look at the address on Staten Island where the scent of Patrick was picked up (still can't post that address).

There is a Subway train station that is a 2 minute walk from the address above that I can't reference at this time.

ETA: My Husband hasn 't lived in NYC for 25 yrs. I should have known better to listen---:blush: ignore my above post everyone please?

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

I was just going to ask about that, Kat. Tell your husband thanks for taking a look, too!

I think it's possible that Patrick would try to take the Subway. But since his scent was tracked to a bus stop, maybe that would be more likely? I'm going to take a break and do some cleaning, but then I'm going to take a crack at the bus and subway systems between Brooklyn and Staten Island.

 

[Kat]

I'm taking a break I4G and waiting for a mod to respond about the addresses.

Once we get clearance we can create a map of the bus stop, subway, any other scent hits there were for Patrick.

He may not have even entered the yard of the home in Staten Island. It's quite possible he walked past and a slight wind took his shed body cells there. He could have been walking on his own.

Same goes for the bus stop. We would have to look at it in relation of more info.

We just have to wait for a go or no-go from a Mod

 

[Salem]

Maps for the bus and subway are permissible. The only thing I am not sure about is the person's address. I will check with Hoppy or JBean and get back to you.

Salem

 

[Kat]

I was looking for news updates on Patrick today - and read the comments to this NY Post article....nothing new really in the article, IMO, just rehash of the 'like Etan Patz disappearance'.

NEhoo - look at the 3rd comment....Is this someone trying to drop a hint -- or just speculating? The way this person says "it was someone he knew" 2x sounds as tho they are trying to be sure someone "gets it".

Of course, it could just be someone hoping for the best - but I find the comment 'different', for lack of a better word.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/new_etan_fear_xYYOQsYDPSYhEPmGnrsAjJ

What do y'all think?

Possibly a reference to BT? maybe not?

 

[CHICANA]

One of the lowest things a person can do (short of actually harming a child) is to falsely accuse another adult of child abuse. Once that accusation is made, some people never shake it off, even if the allegation was false all along.

You see the removal of Patrick as punishing him for his mother's poor choices. In hindsight it might be. However, if bio-mom had no qualms about falsely accusing others of child abuse, what makes you think that Patrick was harm-free by living with his bio-mom?

I don't know that she falsely accused anybody. That's what the social worker said, and I have no faith in her whatsoever.
Even if she did, that doesn't mean she'd harm her child.
Not all people who do bad things hurt children. Why would I think that just because someone lies, they also abuse their kids ? What I do know is that he's not harm free now, and it didn't happen on mom's watch.

 

[JLMcKenna83]

If he had no money, it would be much easier for him to sneak onto the subway than a bus. Bus drivers are ruthless is NYC, Subway cops.. not so much.

I was wondering if they spoke to the bus driver who stops at that stop that he was traced to. Maybe they remembered something? I thought most NYC buses had cameras too... I may be mistaken, it's been a few years since I lived there, and I only took the bus once or twice... (I liked the subway.. it was sort of like a mini adventure! lol)

 

[webrocket]

I don't know that she falsely accused anybody. That's what the social worker said, and I have no faith in her whatsoever.
Even if she did, that doesn't mean she'd harm her child.
Not all people who do bad things hurt children. Why would I think that just because someone lies, they also abuse their kids ? What I do know is that he's not harm free now, and it didn't happen on mom's watch.

According to the news item, and I am only copying like one sentence here, it was not the social worker who accused her of lying:

According to the ACS caseworker’s report, Jennifer’s pleas and Patrick’s expressed wishes to be with his dad fell on deaf ears because she lied in court that Alford Sr.’s girlfriend abused her children.

I don't have a transcript of that court hearing, but if in fact she lied in open court, then it was in front of a judge. Much different scenario than a social worker saying "she lied to me".

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Starrett City (now called Spring Creek Towers) see link below to get a feel of how enormous it is...The Belt Parkway is right down the road...there is a landfill there and wastelands (although it has been cleared, a park to be erected there)...

I was born and raised in Brooklyn, knew people who lived here...it is enormous...a bus stop on every corner, to get to the subway you must ride the bus first. Not sure a bus driver wouldn't question a child wanting to board without money..most buses now have video cameras.


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...mage_result&resnum=5&ct=image&ved=0CDAQ9QEwBA


http://www.starrettcitypics.com/Outside/


I don't know how familiar Patrick is with Brooklyn if he lived in Staten Island with mom would he know how to travel around on buses and subways??? The area around Starrett City is saturated with drugs and gangs. I do hope Patrick will be found alive and well but as the days pass into months, I am very fearful for this child...JMHO

Where is Patrick???