NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[Jmoose]

bbm: MMQC -Don't know why but I think I understand this – It is not a rational thing but perhaps more about safe harbor - that EL couldn't let herself, bring herself to think the alternative. So, better to think her daughter was mad at her, the family, whatever and staying with you or nearby - as you and Sylvia would always do when escaping each other’s families. In some strange way it was comforting. –If that makes sense?

As the years go by, without knowing what happened, where does the broken heart go? Where does it live? To mourn the loss of someone is a definite thing. But, to live with this kind of uncertainty all these years draws upon strength in any human being that is equally uncertain.

In our focus, through your memories, there is the raising of the energy level (the life-force) on Sylvia. In this contemplation, there is the hope for that one piece, clue, thought, remembrance, or witness that may help to find her.

Your willingness and responses to the avalanche of inquiry most definitely calls her spirit to life. (imo) And, there is much to honor, here. --What a great friend you are. --And hopefully in some way, collectively, we can help to honor her, too.

This makes sense to me, too-far easier for a mother to think that Sylvia's safe, just gone, than to think she is gone by virtue of foul play. It saddens me to realize that Sylvia's mother thought her daughter could stay so angry at them for years, and that she wouldn't return for her father's funeral, or weddings of friends, or anything important like that.

 

[Jmoose]

bbm: We may not be able to, but perhaps through this process of gathering up the memories, timeline, and reactivation of information, Sylvia's family and friends will feel more empowered, less shut out, and can follow up for themselves.

There is a list of names that the parents gave to LE when they filed the missing person report. I wonder what legal recourse would be available to Sylvia's family in terms of discovery, as well.

Yes-I thought of this, too. I am certain that we aren't the only people reading all of this, and maybe it will propel someone who has some kind of standing or stake in the case to light a fire under whoever is doing the investigation. In addition, we have all "googled" the names of friends from long ago-maybe they will find this thread and remember something from 1975 that is relevent.

 

[ASWDeerHunter]

BTW, this listing shows her enrollment dates as 1971-75, which suggests she didn't graduate.

I've included the photo as an attachment? Please give feedback as to whether you can open it.

* The second entry has no photos and list the dates as 1970-74, which suggests she did graduate.

We could use some help differntiating info like this. Can we assume the one with the photos is the "official" one? And since Classmates.com (and ahem, the Internet) didn't exist in 1974, who posted these?[/QUOTE]


Sylvia did graduate from Wagner and I believe I posted the picture of Sylvia on ClassMates.com in an attempt to get more information a few years ago.

 

[MMQC]

Uh oh! What is EOA?

Ok, so not ringing a bell as an event that happened right before she disappeared? Maybe earlier in summer?

Retail terms...sorry. End Of August.
EOM ..End of Month
BOM.. beginning of month etc.

 

[MMQC]

BBM

Her grief aside, what else do you think may have led to EL's feelings that you knew SL's whereabouts?

Since SL's Mother evidently had not told you about BF/F's visit to her home that night, she initially had a few ideas of her own about what happened to Sylvia. Why was that?

At the time I was dating my soon to be husband. We were going places and looking for an apartment and found one and had been shopping for furniture etc. MOO-when was I followed by PI? Could have mistaken my actions as SL's apartment? I had to do everything on the sly as my parents did not want me to get married so young. Then as time went on, I did tell SL's mother I was getting married and my parents did not know. She showed up at Borough Hall that morning. I expect she expected to see SL. Natural assumption if she thought we were still best friends and in contact with each other. She would have been my Maid OF Honor. That morning before I left to get married I told my parents when and where. My mother then said "i never had a daughter if you go out that door" I went. SL's mother asked why my parents did not show. I told her why and she said she would speak to my mother. At least she knows weather you are alive and where your are living. Always in the back of her mind SL was still in contact with me. So, so sad.

 

[MMQC]

Bumping up.

Graduation-Pool Party: End of April or Early May.

End of August. April too early to have a pool party....

 

[MMQC]

Was the pool party at her house?

Yes, at house. Big pool in back yard.

 

[MMQC]

Rose, loved your timeline ... I worked on another one yesterday as well. I included a few more things in it than you did -- you may have omitted these things for a reason, but I am going to post mine here anyway. It's probably not as easy to read as yours, but for me, it helps to see all we've heard as a whole. Question marks next to times reflect my translation from words (e.g., "a few days later") to possible times. VIs, please weigh in if something's not right. Here it is:

Sat. afternoon-4-ish: MMQC & SL spend afternoon together. MMQC: “Mall shopping running errands etc. Dropped her off at home so she could get ready for date with BF/F. That was the last time I saw her.”

Sat. 5 or 6 PM: BF/F picks SL up at home for their date. ASWDeerHunter: “Charles came over to the residents around 5pm to see a movie Sylvia at a cinema about 20 min away.” Alternate time of “6 PM” added as per PR.

5/6-10 PM: Window of uncertainty. Date details unverified. Mall? Movie? Fight? Bus stop?

Sat. 10 PM: BF/F shows up at MMQC’s house, tells her about fight, asks her to pick SL up from the bus stop. MMQC: “I did not know exact time of DATE. What I do know is that BF/F did say after movie they had fight she got out of the car and would take the bus home.” and “He did say they had a fight and she stormed out of the car by the mall. He seemed angry.”

10-11 PM: MMQC & her father drive around the mall area, trying to find SL, but they do not find her. MMQC: “We guessed that the bus came in the time between.”

10:30 PM: BF/F drives to SL’s residence and explains what happened. ASWDeerHunter: “Charles returned to the house approx. 10:30 stating that during an argument Sylvia had thrown her glasses against the dash board of the car and ran off.” (MMQC: “I truly don't remember BF/F EVER going to parents home that night.” and re EL: “She never mentioned to me that BF/F ever came by.”)

10:45 PM-Midnight (?): EL searches for SL by car. ASWDeerHunter: “Eva then got in the car and drove around the Staten Island Mall, but didn’t see her.”

11 PM (?): MMQC talks with her parents and decides not to alarm SL’s family with her concerns about SL -- “...did not want to worry SL's parents or raise a red flag if not warrented.” She calls under the guise of needing to talk to SL for personal reasons. “I called SL home stating I needed to talk to my friend. Saying that I had an issue that I had to talk to my best friend about. No matter what time.”

Around Midnight (?): EL calls LE. ASWDeerHunter: “Eva Lwowski called the 122pct and tried to report a missing person but could not because see wasn't missing for 24 hrs. yet.” and “... it was after Eva returned from the Mall that she called the 122pct.”

2 AM-7 AM (?): EL calls MMQC. MMQC: “Then after several hours passed SL's mother called my home asking WHAT HAPPENED? SL did not return home. It was then I told her about BF/F coming to my home telling me about the fight etc.” and “She called me asking what was up as SL never came home and it was very early the next morning.”

Sun. AM: MMQC & EL search Wagner, local area. “I took her to the Wagner campus then in the morning and cruised around at our local haunts to see if she was there or if anyone had seen her.”

Sun. 6 PM: EL reports her missing to LE (time as per PR). ASWDeerhunter: “The following day, Eva went to 122 pct to make a formal missing persons report and the police basically said she was over 21 and didn’t really spend to much time or resources in locating her.” MMQC: “LE informed her that SL was an adult and was not considered missing until missing for more than 48 hours as I recall. Then they were to bring current photo and a list of what she was wearing etc. Then LE would contact them at their home to follow up and investigate.”

Mon-Tues. (?): MMQC and EL stay in touch. “For a day or two. I was in contact with SL's mother about this.”

Wed. (?): MMQC & father request help from ADA. “My parents lived next door to an ADA. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE.”

UNSPECIFIED: MMQC calls BF/F about SL. “I called BF/F to see if SL contacted him. He was VERY RUDE to me on phone stating he had been made a sucker of he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off, and don't call again. His mother was having a breakdown about it and not to call again.”

“Days and weeks” after SL disappears: ASWDeerHunter: “Charles wouldn't answer and more questions concerning Sylvia.”

1-2 Weeks after disappearance: ASWDeerHunter: “A week or two later the family hired a privet investigator and am not sure of the outcome of that investigation except a different version of her running off came out.”

Just before Xmas '75: MMQC calls BF/F. MMQC: “I last spoke to BF/F just before Xmas '75. Told him Fifi died (SL's pet poodle) and he said (insert my real name) who. I reminded BF/F who I was and he cursed me and said don't ever call here again ...”

Sometime in 1979-84: MMQC hears about ring when she meets a fellow SI’er: Convo turns to SL, fellow SI’er tells MMQC that knows BF/F through his brother/band and claims BF/F is in possession of the engagement ring he gave Sl.

2010: Cold Case contacts MMQC. “Other than the cold case Det. Savage calling me in 2010 that I never spoke to LE.”

Slightly longer summary but right on the money. Thanks

 

[MMQC]

I think the police never saw them-either the Lwowski family got them back from the BF/F, or BF/F didn't give them back and threw them out. Maybe nowadays the police might have kept them, but as city police end up storing all manner of "evidence", and sometimes lose it deep in the vaults of wherever evidence is kept, I think they had no interest in these glasses-especially since it appears that they thought this was a case of missing voluntarily. I wish we could speak to the person who contacted MMQC in 2010, but I am quite sure he wouldn't discuss this case because it is being "investigated".

Detective Patrick Savage.

 

[epiphany]

At the time I was dating my soon to be husband. We were going places and looking for an apartment and found one and had been shopping for furniture etc. MOO-when was I followed by PI? Could have mistaken my actions as SL's apartment? I had to do everything on the sly as my parents did not want me to get married so young. Then as time went on, I did tell SL's mother I was getting married and my parents did not know. She showed up at Borough Hall that morning. I expect she expected to see SL. Natural assumption if she thought we were still best friends and in contact with each other. She would have been my Maid OF Honor. That morning before I left to get married I told my parents when and where. My mother then said "i never had a daughter if you go out that door" I went. SL's mother asked why my parents did not show. I told her why and she said she would speak to my mother. At least she knows weather you are alive and where your are living. Always in the back of her mind SL was still in contact with me. So, so sad.

BBM

What indoor places did Sylvia & BF/F go when they wanted to be alone or perhaps, intimate (prior to her disappearance), MMQC?

Certainly, not implying your new place...only that families appear strict, etc. and there would be a natural desire for privacy, independence and freedom on the part of you and Sylvia (and a need for secrecy): young adult females with BFs.

 

[rosemadderlake]

MMQC - I'll add to Epiphany's question -

What are some of the favorite outdoor "natural wonder" places that you may have liked to hang out or go when you needed to talk privately? --Certain beaches, parks, beautiful streams, monuments, etc?

I wonder what the weather was like that night, too? Ok I just found it, see attached link. --The weather was overcast and 74 degrees on Sept. 6, 1975 - a nice balmy evening.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...en+Island&req_state=NY&req_statename=New+York

 

[Dushi]

Button up sweater, no jacket or coat mentioned
May have been a nice Sept evening

 

[rosemadderlake]

Dushi, it was a nice evening - I found the weather history and added it to my post above, just now...

 

[Odyssey]

I agree-you wouldn't leave someone you love some place like that-if anything, if she wouldn't get back in the car, he should/would have parked the car and watched until she got safely on the bus, if that is what she insisted on doing. The eyeglass thing is bugging me, though. Why, if he hurt her, would he have said anything at all about the glasses? Why wouldn't he just get rid of them? MMQC-by any chance, do you know what BF/F does for a living?

bbm

I'm pretty sure glasses were actually made of glass back then, although I'm not sure if they were shatterproof. Is it possible that the lens shattered and left shards of glass all over the car?

 

[Odyssey]

Long shot here, but do either of the VI's know which private investigator EL hired?

 

[Jmoose]

bbm

I'm pretty sure glasses were actually made of glass back then, although I'm not sure if they were shatterproof. Is it possible that the lens shattered and left shards of glass all over the car?

Yes-no crazy polymer lenses then. They didn't scratch so easily, but you could break them, and you just wouldn't throw them!

 

[rosemadderlake]

bbm

I'm pretty sure glasses were actually made of glass back then, although I'm not sure if they were shatterproof. Is it possible that the lens shattered and left shards of glass all over the car?

I believe eye lenses are made of a tempered glass--they don't shatter like ordinary glass. I wear glasses and even back in the day, for all the dropping on the floor, they were very durable. I stepped on one pair and that was that. The glass looked like a spider web but held together.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BTW, this listing shows her enrollment dates as 1971-75, which suggests she didn't graduate.

I've included the photo as an attachment? Please give feedback as to whether you can open it.

* The second entry has no photos and list the dates as 1970-74, which suggests she did graduate.

We could use some help differntiating info like this. Can we assume the one with the photos is the "official" one? And since Classmates.com (and ahem, the Internet) didn't exist in 1974, who posted these?


Sylvia did graduate from Wagner and I believe I posted the picture of Sylvia on ClassMates.com in an attempt to get more information a few years ago.

Good questions - Classmates was started in the 1990's, I believe...

It looks like the 1974 profile w/no picture comes up when I follow your link. But then, the 1975 with her picture is at the bottom right of page. And that profile comes up when you click on it.

I would think you could contact the classmates site through email and have them delete the profile that is incorrect? Maybe there is also a space to add missing person info? --See who responds in the memories and comments section...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

BTW, this listing shows her enrollment dates as 1971-75, which suggests she didn't graduate.

I've included the photo as an attachment? Please give feedback as to whether you can open it.

* The second entry has no photos and list the dates as 1970-74, which suggests she did graduate.

We could use some help differntiating info like this. Can we assume the one with the photos is the "official" one? And since Classmates.com (and ahem, the Internet) didn't exist in 1974, who posted these?

Sylvia did graduate from Wagner and I believe I posted the picture of Sylvia on ClassMates.com in an attempt to get more information a few years ago.

Good questions - Classmates was started in the 1990's, I believe...

It looks like the 1974 profile w/no picture comes up when I follow your link. But then, the 1975 with her picture is at the bottom right of page. And that profile comes up when you click on it.

I would think you could contact the classmates site through email and have them delete the profile that is incorrect? Maybe there is also a space to add missing person info? --See who responds in the memories and comments section...

Rose, I'm not 100% sure if you are answering my Qs or ASWDH's in your post, so forgive me if you realize this already: In ASWDH's post, above, I'm pretty sure that's a faulty/broken quote of mine from an early post (#257) -- before we were sure anyone was actively looking for SL (thus the Q about who posted the pix on Classmates). In ASWDH's post, the first 4 paragraphs are mine. Then, the part BBM is his reply. I read him as answering the questions I asked in #257. Does that make sense?

 

[Jmoose]

Long shot here, but do either of the VI's know which private investigator EL hired?

Oh thanks for asking that-I wonder if the PI might still be alive and willing to tell what he knows, or thinks happened to Sylvia?