NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[rosemadderlake]

I don't know that he would necessarily keep us up to speed, if he did have them. I think he doesn't read this site much (imo), and i wouldn't blame him for avoiding all of the speculation here-it must be very difficult. He really needs somebody in LE to help him out because I think over the last 38 years, her case has been backburnered in favor of cases that could really be solved. I think that is common, especially in high crime areas like the 5 boroughs of NY. However this disappearance happened, someone was either really smart or really lucky (this includes Sylvia, if she ran away, and her killer if she didn't).

Bbms: I have been contemplating what you said here Jmoose, and I think it is very wise and insightful. At first, I was resistant to your post and upon reflection it is because I am the “take charge” person in my family. Then, I was dismayed that we would be avoided because our group (all the posters on this thread) has worked hard this year, and I’d like to think our speculation has been thoughtful. It is not difficult to care about Sylvia as if she was a long lost friend, but I know that is only who I imagine her to be. And I can say what I think Eva did in gathering Sylvia’s records, but she may not have, and they may not exist… –My impatience is on the outside of her story…

We have an idea about just how quiet her disappearance was before now. The publicity and all the discussion may be much more difficult to handle than we know. -And the energy it takes to be vigilant seems daunting, like a super-human effort in the face of so many years of not knowing. So, I am inclined to agree that Sylvia’s nearest and dearest need some help from somebody in LE or cold case squad in bringing these (known and unknown to us) pieces together.

After reading the Kamloops, B.C. story Skeet posted, I felt a sense of urgency because it is just extraordinary that this woman may never have known what happened to her brother 38 years ago, and the answer was right there all along. Somehow, she managed to find an ally, and then the loopholes within the very system that was supposed to help. There is much resonance in her words of the reality of living so long without knowing and her advice for others is really poignant. Her story is tragic but hopeful.

 

[Jmoose]

Rose-I see what you mean; it would be hard to imagine that someone we've worked hard to assist might avoid us. I have been trying to figure this out, and settled on the idea that reading our thoughts must be extraordinarily difficult (I am sure I would find it so). I'm not sure I expressed my thoughts correctly, but wanted to acknowlege how hard this must be for our VIs.

As for some assistance from LE...somebody ought to have some mercy and figure out if there is any way to help make some progress here. It could very well be that all rocks have been turned over, but what if they've just assessed this as a case that can't be solved, and moved on to ones that can be? I'd like to think that Sylvia's brother gave the investigators any information that he knows, that they didn't have before ( like stuff we can't discuss here). I caught a few minutes of Disappeared recently, and a private investigator who used to be a police officer contacted a family with a missing son, with an offer to help pro bono (they didn't find the guy who was missing but they are filling in the blanks of the puzzle). I wish this would happen here, even though 38 years have gone by and likely there isn't anything to find-it's even harder when you're not looking, though! Sorry-it's late and I'm babbling

 

[rosemadderlake]

Rose-I see what you mean; it would be hard to imagine that someone we've worked hard to assist might avoid us. I have been trying to figure this out, and settled on the idea that reading our thoughts must be extraordinarily difficult (I am sure I would find it so). I'm not sure I expressed my thoughts correctly, but wanted to acknowlege how hard this must be for our VIs.

As for some assistance from LE...somebody ought to have some mercy and figure out if there is any way to help make some progress here. It could very well be that all rocks have been turned over, but what if they've just assessed this as a case that can't be solved, and moved on to ones that can be? I'd like to think that Sylvia's brother gave the investigators any information that he knows, that they didn't have before ( like stuff we can't discuss here). I caught a few minutes of Disappeared recently, and a private investigator who used to be a police officer contacted a family with a missing son, with an offer to help pro bono (they didn't find the guy who was missing but they are filling in the blanks of the puzzle). I wish this would happen here, even though 38 years have gone by and likely there isn't anything to find-it's even harder when you're not looking, though! Sorry-it's late and I'm babbling

Bbm: Could well be the case. One of the other things that was striking to me in the Kamloops, B.C. story was her contact with the coroner's office. It seems the search for Sylvia is most concentrated on Staten Island, but with the bordering states, each with their own jurisdiction, is LE/CCS even able to thoroughly cross check the unidentified to Sylvia? Is every unidentified person listed on NamUs? I have been going along thinking she is not found, and now, the thought of her being an unidentified person for decades (maybe like this woman's brother in CA) makes me realize how complicated any search, but particularly a wider search for her might be.

I hope there is some solace in knowing there are people trying to help piece her disappearance together, search through the unidentified databases, be the impartial set of eyes. -And posting the revelatory stories that make real the similar possibilities, like this woman finally finding out after 38 years, what happened to her sibling, in B.C.

 

[Jmoose]

Bbm: Could well be the case. One of the other things that was striking to me in the Kamloops, B.C. story was her contact with the coroner's office. It seems the search for Sylvia is most concentrated on Staten Island, but with the bordering states, each with their own jurisdiction, is LE/CCS even able to thoroughly cross check the unidentified to Sylvia? Is every unidentified person listed on NamUs? I have been going along thinking she is not found, and now, the thought of her being an unidentified person for decades (maybe like this woman's brother in CA) makes me realize how complicated any search, but particularly a wider search for her might be.

I hope there is some solace in knowing there are people trying to help piece her disappearance together, search through the unidentified databases, be the impartial set of eyes. -And posting the revelatory stories that make real the similar possibilities, like this woman finally finding out after 38 years, what happened to her sibling, in B.C.

This thought has occurred to me many times, and the case that Skeet referenced actually helps me feel positive about the possibility that Sylvia could eventually be identified, as long as somebody's looking. This is sort of what I meant about LE's assistance to her brother, but it's complicated by the fact that Sylvia's disappearance is not included on either the NYPD site or that of the NYSP, and is why I wanted her to be listed there. I don't realistically expect that anybody is ever going to be charged with murder or manslaughter in Sylvia's disappearance, but I think the best possible outcome would be that she is found and laid to rest

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Hey, everybody -- a quick OT wish for a happy holiday to all of you. It's going to be a busy week here ... :sweep: ... as I'm sure it is for all of you. But I just wanted to take a minute to thank you for your company this year. It has really meant a lot to me -- no matter what else was going on in my life -- to have these unfettered friendships to rely on, and this common problem to work on together. Sure, this thread has filled some idle hours, but in doing so it's also somehow helped ground me, help me stay focused on what matters. The circumstances of Sylvia's disappearance played a large role in that, too, but I don't think the experience would have been the same for me if it weren't for what each of you brings to the table. I think what mattered to me most was your stable, compassionate presence and your constant willingness to invest yourself in what happened to someone you never knew -- and to do that with your eyes open. You make quite the tribal council, ladies, and I feel lucky to know all of you, even in this limited way.

Merry Chris:moose:!

I am betting we will continue to keep this vigil for Sylvia in 2014. Here's hoping the new year brings resolution for her.

:christmastree:

 

[Jmoose]

Happy New Year! Hoping for the best (or at least, a good year) for all of us! Stay safe tonight if you're out

JM

 

[alliemay]

Weird not seeing Sylvia's thread at the top, I still think about her, I just don't have anything to add that we haven't already talked about. Hope the new year brings some results for her.

 

[Jmoose]

I keep wanting to bump her thread up, but, like Skeet said, nothing new to add here-not even any questions that we haven't asked already.

 

[galillian]

Hi Everyone: I grew up in Staten Island and was about thirteen years old in 1975. There was not a lot in the news about Sylvia’s case during that time. This is the first time I am hearing about it. As an original Staten Islander, I’m sorry to hear that she is missing. Here are some thoughts that I have.

In 1975, I actually went with two friends to see “Jaws” at the Island Theater. We were too young to drive and took the bus. We arrived at the movie theater unusually early and it was closed. It may have been for the 5:30 movie or could have been earlier for a matinee. Most of the time, we’d go to the movies on a Saturday. One thing that I’ll never forget was that an old man flashed us while we were waiting to get in to the theater. It was a typical old man with a raincoat scenario. I would say that he was 60+ years old. We went up to buy our tickets not knowing the theater was closed. If I remember correctly, the ticket booth was to the left and then you’d have to walk a few feet to get to the door. It was an area that you could stand in if it was raining. The man was in the alcove on the right- hand side. We ran away and went back to the theater closer to the movie time. Luckily, we were a group of three. When I got home, I told my mother and she explained what had happened to me. I was clueless. Perhaps he was a known offender. My parents didn’t call the police (hardly anyone did back then-people didn't even lock their doors). Maybe the police records at the time have some information on him.

Richard Biegenwald: He was a serial killer who lived on Staten Island. He was known for killing a number of people on the Jersey Shore and buried some of them in his mother’s backyard on Sharrotts Rd in Staten Island. I remember that my dad would go to a little bar named Coopers Tavern near Arthur Kill Rd in Rossville. The bar is no longer there. He would mention that Biegenwald would sometimes be there. It was during the time when he was under investigation for the murders. That bar is not very far from the theater by car.

I hope this is information is helpful to you.

 

[alliemay]

Yes his mother lived in the Charleston section of Staten Island.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Hi Everyone: I grew up in Staten Island and was about thirteen years old in 1975. There was not a lot in the news about Sylvia’s case during that time. This is the first time I am hearing about it. As an original Staten Islander, I’m sorry to hear that she is missing. Here are some thoughts that I have.

In 1975, I actually went with two friends to see “Jaws” at the Island Theater. We were too young to drive and took the bus. We arrived at the movie theater unusually early and it was closed. It may have been for the 5:30 movie or could have been earlier for a matinee. Most of the time, we’d go to the movies on a Saturday. One thing that I’ll never forget was that an old man flashed us while we were waiting to get in to the theater. It was a typical old man with a raincoat scenario. I would say that he was 60+ years old. We went up to buy our tickets not knowing the theater was closed. If I remember correctly, the ticket booth was to the left and then you’d have to walk a few feet to get to the door. It was an area that you could stand in if it was raining. The man was in the alcove on the right- hand side. We ran away and went back to the theater closer to the movie time. Luckily, we were a group of three. When I got home, I told my mother and she explained what had happened to me. I was clueless. Perhaps he was a known offender. My parents didn’t call the police (hardly anyone did back then-people didn't even lock their doors). Maybe the police records at the time have some information on him.

Richard Biegenwald: He was a serial killer who lived on Staten Island. He was known for killing a number of people on the Jersey Shore and buried some of them in his mother’s backyard on Sharrotts Rd in Staten Island. I remember that my dad would go to a little bar named Coopers Tavern near Arthur Kill Rd in Rossville. The bar is no longer there. He would mention that Biegenwald would sometimes be there. It was during the time when he was under investigation for the murders. That bar is not very far from the theater by car.

I hope this is information is helpful to you.

Hiya, galillian, and welcome

BBM1: By any chance are your parents avaialble to ask? I'm just thinking that at 13 you may have missed something they heard about and/or shielded you from. Did you grow up near Sylivia's neighborhood? Thanks for that window into the publicity. We have all questioned that quite intensely.

BBM2: Oh, what we saw as children, huh? That happened to me in a Jersey suburb when I was 10 or so -- I was crossing the street and the driver of the car that stopped to let us cross gave us a big smile while he did you know what in his seat. Ga-ross. (After we crossed the street, the little girl I was walking to school asked me, "Why was that man playing with his big toe?" LOL -- I was just grateful she missed it.) Kudos to your mom. Mine was oblivious. But I think those are the kinds of experiences that made our generation tighten up the freedom we gave our kids. Could this man have hurt SL? (I think that's your question.) Maybe ... I have heard that flashers are a different kind of sicko than rapists/murderers, but who knows .... I appreciate your tale of the time period. I could really see the theater in front of me while I was reading your post.

BBM3: We have explored the possibilities of both SI serial killers -- Biegenwald and Rand -- in earlier posts and earlier threads, and recognize that these scenarios are possible. Thanks for sharing the bit about your dad. It's terrifying to think you walked in the same streets as that man.

 

[Jmoose]

Hi Everyone: I grew up in Staten Island and was about thirteen years old in 1975. There was not a lot in the news about Sylvia’s case during that time. This is the first time I am hearing about it. As an original Staten Islander, I’m sorry to hear that she is missing. Here are some thoughts that I have.

In 1975, I actually went with two friends to see “Jaws” at the Island Theater. We were too young to drive and took the bus. We arrived at the movie theater unusually early and it was closed. It may have been for the 5:30 movie or could have been earlier for a matinee. Most of the time, we’d go to the movies on a Saturday. One thing that I’ll never forget was that an old man flashed us while we were waiting to get in to the theater. It was a typical old man with a raincoat scenario. I would say that he was 60+ years old. We went up to buy our tickets not knowing the theater was closed. If I remember correctly, the ticket booth was to the left and then you’d have to walk a few feet to get to the door. It was an area that you could stand in if it was raining. The man was in the alcove on the right- hand side. We ran away and went back to the theater closer to the movie time. Luckily, we were a group of three. When I got home, I told my mother and she explained what had happened to me. I was clueless. Perhaps he was a known offender. My parents didn’t call the police (hardly anyone did back then-people didn't even lock their doors). Maybe the police records at the time have some information on him.

Richard Biegenwald: He was a serial killer who lived on Staten Island. He was known for killing a number of people on the Jersey Shore and buried some of them in his mother’s backyard on Sharrotts Rd in Staten Island. I remember that my dad would go to a little bar named Coopers Tavern near Arthur Kill Rd in Rossville. The bar is no longer there. He would mention that Biegenwald would sometimes be there. It was during the time when he was under investigation for the murders. That bar is not very far from the theater by car.

I hope this is information is helpful to you.

Hi-Thanks for your recollections! This is very helpful for those of us who, until your description, could not visualize the movie theater and shopping center area.

As GBMG said, we had quite a bit of discussion regarding both Rand and Biegenwald as possibilities in Sylvia's disappearance-Rand was the more notorious, because his activities were known to have taken place on Staten Island-and Biegenwald's mother did live near enough to give him a look. I wish we knew what the police thought of these possibilities. I just read today (in the NY Post-I know, I know...I bought it for starting a fire but read it first) that the odds of being killed by a stranger in NY is 1 in 275,000-NYPD stats. Not sure what the stats would have looked like in 1975 on Staten Island. Statistics aside, people do get killed by strangers...wonder what the odds are of being killed by someone close to you?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I hope our usual posters are island hopping somewhere, not in bed with the flu, or recovering from slipping on the ice. :snowman:

Here's an interesting take a family that's trying to get attention for a cold case.

ETA: The above entries are heartbreaking, esp. an article written by the murdered boy's brother, and a note his younger sister wrote to a teacher after her brother died. If you read through the tweets, it's clear that the strategy has gotten media attention for the case. Ugh, scraping myself off the floor now ...

 

[Jmoose]

I hope our usual posters are island hopping somewhere, not in bed with the flu, or recovering from slipping on the ice. :snowman:

Here's an interesting take a family that's trying to get attention for a cold case.

ETA: The above entries are heartbreaking, esp. an article written by the murdered boy's brother, and a note his younger sister wrote to a teacher after her brother died. If you read through the tweets, it's clear that the strategy has gotten media attention for the case. Ugh, scraping myself off the floor now ...

Thanks for posting this (as sad and upsetting as it is)-I think that the sister may have an idea who she thinks is responsible for her brother's death and is trying to let that person know that she hasn't given it up. I can't believe the police determined that he did this to himself!

I think this is what Sylvia's brother has sort of been trying to do, although with less...finesse. Maybe he has to do something like this-it doesn't accuse anyone in particular, and gets some attention-and lets the person responsible know that he hasn't stopped looking for answers.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Thanks for posting this (as sad and upsetting as it is)-I think that the sister may have an idea who she thinks is responsible for her brother's death and is trying to let that person know that she hasn't given it up. I can't believe the police determined that he did this to himself!

I think this is what Sylvia's brother has sort of been trying to do, although with less...finesse. Maybe he has to do something like this-it doesn't accuse anyone in particular, and gets some attention-and lets the person responsible know that he hasn't stopped looking for answers.

BBM1: Interesting -- did you read something that made you think that? Or is it an intuitive leap? I got the impression she didn't know ... but I was confused by the Tweets about prior beatings, so maybe there's something to it.

BBM2: I missed that too, though I didn't follow all the links. Do you remember where you saw that? How is that even possible given the COD/MOD? Isn't it physically impossible to strangle yourself? My understanding is that you would pass out before you could do enough damage to kill yourself.

BBM3: I agree. It's very well done. Is it possible to work through grief enough to be able to do that sort of thing without falling apart every five minutes? I would think it would be very hard to do and require a very strong person who is comfortable with her emotions.

 

[Jmoose]

BBM1: Interesting -- did you read something that made you think that? Or is it an intuitive leap? I got the impression she didn't know ... but I was confused by the Tweets about prior beatings, so you maybe there's something to it.

BBM2: I missed that too, though I didn't follow all the links. Do you remember where you saw that? How is that even possible given the COD/MOD? Isn't it physically impossible to strangle yourself? My understanding is that you would pass out before you could do enough damage to kill yourself.

BBM3: I agree. It's very well done. Is it possible to work through grief enough to be able to do that sort of thing without falling apart every five minutes? I would think it would be very hard to do and require a very strong person who is comfortable with her emotions.

1) intuitive leap-this is exactly what I would do if I had some idea that somebody who either grew up nearby or still had contacts with whom I was in touch, might be responsible

2) I did read it someplace-maybe in the comments section, so it isn't necessarily a fact that the police looked at it this way

3) this is the kind of thing that Sylvia's brother should do-especially since the Staten Island Advance already did an article about her. But as you said, it takes some fortitude to maintain this kind of vigilance, and not everyone can do it.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I hope our usual posters are island hopping somewhere, not in bed with the flu, or recovering from slipping on the ice. :snowman:

Here's an interesting take a family that's trying to get attention for a cold case.

ETA: The above entries are heartbreaking, esp. an article written by the murdered boy's brother, and a note his younger sister wrote to a teacher after her brother died. If you read through the tweets, it's clear that the strategy has gotten media attention for the case. Ugh, scraping myself off the floor now ...

Quoting myself to follow up. When I searched last night, I could not find this missing boy on WS and had the thought that someone should start a thread. This morning I see someone with a Twitter handle of Shar H has suggested it to the sister. No response yet that I see.

Okay, that's probably as OT as I should go on this. The relevance to SL is the successful media campaign for an extraordinarily cold case. It's something we've all talked about being done for Sylvia.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Very interesting story, GBMG. -And haunting to read the dead speaking in the first person on Twitter... It definitely gets your attention.

Someone started a WS thread on him, yesterday.
Bill Comeans Was Murdered 34 Years Ago - Now He's Speaking Out On Twitter - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[rosemadderlake]

1) intuitive leap-this is exactly what I would do if I had some idea that somebody who either grew up nearby or still had contacts with whom I was in touch, might be responsible

2) I did read it someplace-maybe in the comments section, so it isn't necessarily a fact that the police looked at it this way

3) this is the kind of thing that Sylvia's brother should do-especially since the Staten Island Advance already did an article about her. But as you said, it takes some fortitude to maintain this kind of vigilance, and not everyone can do it.

Quoting myself to follow up. When I searched last night, I could not find this missing boy on WS and had the thought that someone should start a thread. This morning I see someone with a Twitter handle of Shar H has suggested it to the sister. No response yet that I see.

Okay, that's probably as OT as I should go on this. The relevance to SL is the successful media campaign for an extraordinarily cold case. It's something we've all talked about being done for Sylvia.

Bbms: Wonder what the next move will be? When you Google Sylvia, there is a whole page of links.

Was a tip, or information submitted to NYPD, and is that why things went silent with her family? Or, is there known information that would compromise an investigation if shared here on WS?

Yes, "fortitude" is what it will take. This may be easier for me to say, but I'll say it anyway - I would go to Wagner and try to meet with anyone who is still alive who may have known or remembered her. I would contact her BF/F directly in a letter, or through an attorney, because 'no response' is an answer as well. I would touch base with the Cold Case Squad, regularly, nag if I have to. Yes, there is fear and trepidation in making any of these direct moves, but how does one "zero in" or eliminate some of the other possibilities, like did she go to Wagner that night? If she ran off from an argument, does her BF/F have any information that in hindsight may give direction to her case? And, what has, or has not been covered in the Cold Case investigation? Is everything irrelevant without a body?

Imo- We really have nowhere to go without some of the blanks being filled in... And neither does any publicity venue. We can keep her MP case alive, and bump her up. -Wish very much we could do more, though.

As you said, back up thread, Jmoose, patience is a virtue - so I guess we wait and see...

 

[rosemadderlake]

Hi Everyone: I grew up in Staten Island and was about thirteen years old in 1975. There was not a lot in the news about Sylvia’s case during that time. This is the first time I am hearing about it. As an original Staten Islander, I’m sorry to hear that she is missing. Here are some thoughts that I have.

In 1975, I actually went with two friends to see “Jaws” at the Island Theater. We were too young to drive and took the bus. We arrived at the movie theater unusually early and it was closed. It may have been for the 5:30 movie or could have been earlier for a matinee. Most of the time, we’d go to the movies on a Saturday. One thing that I’ll never forget was that an old man flashed us while we were waiting to get in to the theater. It was a typical old man with a raincoat scenario. I would say that he was 60+ years old. We went up to buy our tickets not knowing the theater was closed. If I remember correctly, the ticket booth was to the left and then you’d have to walk a few feet to get to the door. It was an area that you could stand in if it was raining. The man was in the alcove on the right- hand side. We ran away and went back to the theater closer to the movie time. Luckily, we were a group of three. When I got home, I told my mother and she explained what had happened to me. I was clueless. Perhaps he was a known offender. My parents didn’t call the police (hardly anyone did back then-people didn't even lock their doors). Maybe the police records at the time have some information on him.

Richard Biegenwald: He was a serial killer who lived on Staten Island. He was known for killing a number of people on the Jersey Shore and buried some of them in his mother’s backyard on Sharrotts Rd in Staten Island. I remember that my dad would go to a little bar named Coopers Tavern near Arthur Kill Rd in Rossville. The bar is no longer there. He would mention that Biegenwald would sometimes be there. It was during the time when he was under investigation for the murders. That bar is not very far from the theater by car.

I hope this is information is helpful to you.

galillian - bbm: This really speaks to the times, I think. People really didn't lock their doors back then. There were a couple of mentally imbalanced street people in the town I grew up in and they were avoided, for the most part.

Good point, too, re: police info - I wonder if the Cold Case Squad pulled police records from that time- Not everything would have been published in The SI Advance, I imagine. There were certainly some horrible acts of violence at Wagner College, written up in the school newspaper.

Your post speaks to the random possibilities. I read there were big crowds at the movie theater for "Jaws" in 1975. I have wondered IF Sylvia left the car in an argument, did she, not thinking clearly let her guard down, and accept a ride from a stranger?