NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[Jmoose]

Here it is, GBMG-We know that the Lwowskis and MMQC assumed she (Sylvia) still had the ring, because it's there in the police report, and MMQC thought she had it until that guy said BF/F said he had gotten the ring back. We have no idea why that guy told MMQC that. I am making the assumption that he wasn't making it up-in my opinion possible, but not likely. In any event, people were discussing her disappearance in some circles, at least for a while.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Here it is, GBMG-We know that the Lwowskis and MMQC assumed she (Sylvia) still had the ring, because it's there in the police report, and MMQC thought she had it until that guy said BF/F said he had gotten the ring back. We have no idea why that guy told MMQC that. I am making the assumption that he wasn't making it up-in my opinion possible, but not likely. In any event, people were discussing her disappearance in some circles, at least for a while.

LOL. For a minute I thought my "thanks" had the power to destroy

Yes, I think there are many reasons why the Ls could have been left believing S was still wearing the ring, not all of them alarming. In keeping with my above posts, it could have simply been a gap in communication. If he assumed they knew about a potential breakup, he might have felt like a fool in front of them ("he had been made a sucker of") and not mentioned it. When he found out she wasn't home, who knows where he went next. Clearly, he was not yet "okay" with what had transpired that night ... maybe he sought the company of friends. Maybe someone there made a suggestion about another guy -- who knows.

But you've said two things I hadn't thought of before. The BF/F, out of pride, could have lied about getting the ring back, and the story the anonymous guy (brother -- or friend to brother -- of another member of BF/F's band, IIRC) shows people were talking about it in some way.

I suppose if the BF/F lied about getting the ring back, he must really have felt duped. Surely, if you were guilty of something like causing SL harm, that is not a fact you would manufacture?

 

[Jmoose]

LOL. For a minute I thought my "thanks" had the power to destroy

Yes, I think there are many reasons why the Ls could have been left believing S was still wearing the ring, not all of them alarming. In keeping with my above posts, it could have simply been a gap in communication. If he assumed they knew about a potential breakup, he might have felt like a fool in front of them ("he had been made a sucker of") and not mentioned it. When he found out she wasn't home, who knows where he went next. Clearly, he was not yet "okay" with what had transpired that night ... maybe he sought the company of friends. Maybe someone there made a suggestion about another guy -- who knows.

But you've said two things I hadn't thought of before. The BF/F, out of pride, could have lied about getting the ring back, and the story the anonymous guy (brother -- or friend to brother -- of another member of BF/F's band, IIRC) shows people were talking about it in some way.

I suppose if the BF/F lied about getting the ring back, he must really have felt duped. Surely, if you were guilty of something like causing SL harm, that is not a fact you would manufacture?

I think it maybe just didn't come up when BF/F went to see the Lwowskis that night-it certainly wouldn't be the first topic of conversation between them. And there aren't many reasons for him to talk to any of his/their friends about getting or not getting the ring back, imo. I think if he did not tell the truth about getting the ring back, it's because he didn't want people to think he'd been duped-and that makes it much less likely that he was responsible for harming her. If she actually did give it back to him, and he just didn't mention it, he's probably still not responsible for what happened to her. It's such a bizarre and suspicious set of circumstances, that would make one think he might be responsible-unluckily for him. A good enough reason for him to stop talking to her family and friend, it seems.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I think it maybe just didn't come up when BF/F went to see the Lwowskis that night-it certainly wouldn't be the first topic of conversation between them. And there aren't many reasons for him to talk to any of his/their friends about getting or not getting the ring back, imo. I think if he did not tell the truth about getting the ring back, it's because he didn't want people to think he'd been duped-and that makes it much less likely that he was responsible for harming her. If she actually did give it back to him, and he just didn't mention it, he's probably still not responsible for what happened to her. It's such a bizarre and suspicious set of circumstances, that would make one think he might be responsible-unluckily for him. A good enough reason for him to stop talking to her family and friend, it seems.

And now that I think about it, if you were guilty of something like doing SL harm, you probably wouldn't talk about her a lot to friends, right? So maybe the fact that we see through this tiny window that his friends are still talking about it with him these many what -- months? -- later, also works in his favor. JMO

 

[rosemadderlake]

I wonder if the two sets of parents had any communication afterwards, because could his mother be having a breakdown because she knows they broke up and knows he didn't tell this to the Lwowskis or her best friend that night and he continued to withhold that piece afterwards?

I also wonder, if he told this piece to LE in 1975 would they be under any obligation to tell the Lwowskis?

 

[Jmoose]

I wonder if the two sets of parents had any communication afterwards, because could his mother be having a breakdown because she knows they broke up and knows he didn't tell this to the Lwowskis or her best friend that night and he continued to withhold that piece afterwards?

I also wonder, if he told this piece to LE in 1975 would they be under any obligation to tell the Lwowskis?

In my opinion, no, but not sure why they wouldn't. Did you have something specific in mind?

 

[Jmoose]

Does it seem more or less likely that Sylvia broke up with him, rather than the other way around? If he broke the engagement, wouldn't he have been more inclined to be concerned about her when she exited the car (if she did)? I think that if they did break their engagement, she was the one to do so. I think this works in several different scenarios

 

[rosemadderlake]

In my opinion, no, but not sure why they wouldn't. Did you have something specific in mind?

Yes, the ring, but also if he provided information to LE -maybe something the Lwowskis didn't know -like she was pregnant or they broke up, or the specifics of the argument.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I wonder if the two sets of parents had any communication afterwards, because could his mother be having a breakdown because she knows they broke up and knows he didn't tell this to the Lwowskis or her best friend that night and he continued to withhold that piece afterwards?

I also wonder, if he told this piece to LE in 1975 would they be under any obligation to tell the Lwowskis?

BBM1: For me, this is too many steps removed from anything we really know to "read" with any confidence. Being Italian myself, I could see everything from a mother who has "a breakdown" over everything to one who's terrified something has happened. Maybe she was upset because her son was jilted/hurt. Maybe she was upset because of the "public disgrace" of a broken engagement. Maybe she was upset because LE calling the house suggested to her that the Ls didn't know what happened to SL, and as a mother, she knew that must be devastating. She still may not have suspected foul play though -- parents being left in the lurch by a child could be enough to draw her empathy. But if the latter, I could see her pestering her son to tell the Ls what he knew (not about a possible breakup, bc if he assumed the Ls knew that, she probably did too), but about where SL went. However, given her son's wound, she might have felt it was overstepping to talk to the Ls when he was drawing a line in the sand. Families do this after breakups. JMO

BBM2: I have no idea, but am going to guess probably not, given the "adult" piece of her having gone missing and none of them knowing if she would be back. The Ls weren't accusing him of anything, right? So LE may have only gone to the BF/F to verify that SL had run off from the car/date voluntarily, the way the Ls said. So long as no one was doubting that, why would they take it farther unless they "smelled" something? ETA: Re the ring/breakup, I think they would have taken the position that they would let SL share that with her family when she cooled off, returned, or whatever they thought might happen next.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Does it seem more or less likely that Sylvia broke up with him, rather than the other way around? If he broke the engagement, wouldn't he have been more inclined to be concerned about her when she exited the car (if she did)? I think that if they did break their engagement, she was the one to do so.

Yes, I don't think we'd see the anger/pain if he broke up with her. I don't think he'd feel he'd been "make a sucker of."

 

[epiphany]

Just out of curiousity, Epiphany, how long was your friend "laying low"?

It was for several days...will give her a shout and ask her today.

 

[epiphany]

Where had she gone, Epiph?

My GF was in a male's dorm apartment. He and his roommates were not close with her BFs group of friends. His roommates were gone since was a break or vacation period.

 

[Jmoose]

Has anybody noticed how many guests have visited this thread today? I saw that there were 14 at one point this morning.

 

[epiphany]

He "gave her a really expensive ring, and she takes off"...Why would he say this to anyone if he got the ring back? Did he really actually get the ring back? I think I said this before, but maybe he told the person who spoke to MMQC, that he got the ring back because he'd appear to be a fool if he didn't. I think he told that guy that he got the ring back, but possibly didn't. The only other alternative, for me, is that he did get it back that night, and didn't want to mention it to either the Lwowskis or MMQC.

We don't know whether he got the ring back or not.

NYPD prob does and obvi, BF/F. Rumor, Gossip...we don't know.

 

[epiphany]

bbm: Really good question, GBMG.

Yes, I don't think anyone initially thought foul play either and without publicity, the only way news was traveling was through hearsay. Initially people may have thought, oh she is having a crisis, she'll be back. -But, when did that perception change to the reality that she really is missing?

I'd say EL did pretty quickly. I perceived my parents as fairly strict, when I was living with them, but do not believe mine would have gone to NYPD that quickly.

MO, there was a reason for that. "Depressed" on the police report. Mom (EL) knew (or sensed) something that we don't. That she may not have spoken openly about...Mothers can be like that.

 

[epiphany]

MO: BF/F broke up with her that eve...that's why he appeared cold. Who knows why he may have ended it.

But, I believe he broke it off with her.

 

[alliemay]

I guess I think the other way, that she broke up with him. Maybe because if I broke up with someone I wouldn't go looking for him that night, (did this with my first husband, broke it off, didn't contact him, didn't ask others who knew him how he was doing, etc) till I found out I was pregnant and the rest as they say is history, I married him and had two more children. Really wish there was some way we could find out what the fight was about. I'm sure there were rumors, or some, like the police or family and friends may know exactly what the fight was about and choose not to divulge that info.

 

[Jmoose]

We don't know whether he got the ring back or not.

NYPD prob does and obvi, BF/F. Rumor, Gossip...we don't know.

We don't know-but my point (poorly made), was simply that it was possible that he said he had it-and questioned why he may say such a thing

 

[Jmoose]

I guess I think the other way, that she broke up with him. Maybe because if I broke up with someone I wouldn't go looking for him that night, (did this with my first husband, broke it off, didn't contact him, didn't ask others who knew him how he was doing, etc) till I found out I was pregnant and the rest as they say is history, I married him and had two more children. Really wish there was some way we could find out what the fight was about. I sure there were rumors, or some, like the police or family and friends may know exactly what the fight was about and choose not to divulge that info.

Me, too. It might be one of the most important pieces of information, and something we are likely never going to know.

 

[epiphany]

Me, too. It might be one of the most important pieces of information, and something we are likely never going to know.

I suspect this info is being kept privy only to NYPD...what the fight (according to BF/F) was about.