SOLVED NY - Tala Farea, 16, Rotana Farea, 22, Hudson River, 24 Oct 2018- COD released: suicide/drowning

[inmyhumbleopinion]

“Bound Women Found Floating in River Were Not Decomposed, Medical Examiner Says”

“The bodies of two fully clothed and bound people who were found floating in the Hudson River off Riverside Park Wednesday afternoon were still intact, the city's medical examiner said Thursday, refuting reports to the contrary.

[SBM]

The office said that while it does not generally comment on the state of bodies, “reports that the decedents in this case were 'decomposed' upon discovery are false.’

[SBM]

The medical examiner's office said the bodies required more analysis and that the cause and manner of death was still pending.“ (BBM)

Bound Women Floating in River Not Decomposed, ME Says

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I admit the initial belief that the sisters may have committed suicide is looking less and less likely, IMO.

It does appear that the women were very concerned for their own safety:

1. There seems to be virtually no information online about their private life;

2. “They had a history of going missing, and they had recently requested asylum in the United States, the police said”;

3. According to LE in New York, their mom reported both of them missing some time last year. “When the local police located the sisters, they asked for protection and were placed in a shelter, the police said.”

4. “The mother also received a call from the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Washington, informing her that her daughters had applied for asylum, the police said“: It sounds as though the mom was unaware that they had done that.
2 Sisters Were Found Dead in the River, Duct-Taped Together. Police Have Few Answers.

According to USCIS:
Refugee status or asylum may be granted to people who have been persecuted or fear they will be persecuted on account of race, religion, nationality, and/or membership in a particular social group or political opinion.
Refugees & Asylum

If one or some of the above happened to them and their family, did they feel that they were still in danger while in the US?

 

[TTF14]

I wonder what the circumstances were around mom and daughters coming to the USA and dad staying behind. Do we know exactly when they got here in the US and for what purpose?

 

[Ari_]

If they were in an "X" pattern I would have thought it would be described as perpendicular or as an "x." To me mentioning a "cross" means arms outstretched like the artistic and religious renderings of Christ on the Cross.

That's how I imagined it too, Alethea.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

“NYPD investigators are looking into a claim by the mother of two sisters found dead in the Hudson River last week had been ordered to return to their native Saudi Arabia because the girls had applied for asylum in the U.S., a law enforcement official said Monday.

[SBM]

Late Monday, detectives were poring over files detailing the family’s immigration status and were in contact with the Department of State, looking for any evidence that the dead sisters had applied for asylum, an NYPD spokesman said. The family first arrived in the U.S.in mid-2015, the spokesman added.“
NYPD: Checking if sisters found dead in Hudson were ordered home by Saudis | Newsday

‘“I'm a dead soul in a living body and I hope that doesn't happen to my little sister,’ Sara, a Saudi woman, tells CNN.

Sara is one of a growing number of Saudi women who are challenging the country's male guardianship system using social media.

In Saudi Arabia, every woman has a male guardian -- often a father or husband, sometimes a brother or son -- who has the power to make a range of critical decisions on their behalf.

[SBM]

Women are initially under the guardianship of their father, until they marry and guardianship transfers to the husband.

[SBM]

Breaking free from an abusive guardian is very difficult, HRW found. Filing a police complaint against a guardian can be difficult, and on some occasions when a woman went to file a complaint, police called or sent the women back to their guardians.

Guardians must also approve the issuing or renewal of passports, restricting a woman's ability to travel.

[SBM]

But even thousands of miles away, Salma still feels the impact of the guardianship system. A recent visit to the Saudi embassy to renew her passport required a notarized signature from her father, her guardian. Luckily for her, he obliged, something he wouldn't have done had he known she was seeking asylum, she said.”
(BBM)
https://www-m.cnn.com/2016/09/16/world/saudi-arabia-male-guardianship-campaign/

Perhaps something like the above (BBM) happened to the sisters, and they did not want to go back .

 

[kirkassoc]

Whole lot of mystery surrounding this case. I'm glad they've been identified, but a photo might have revealed even more information on their whereabouts, living conditions, etc. I doubt two young and attractive women (who may not have spoken any English) would go unnoticed, and they may have reached out to someone before their demise. JMO, MOO

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

“The Saudi women afraid to go home”

“‘This is it,’ Arwa said as she sat in the US immigration office on the outskirts of Houston, Texas last month. Having fled Saudi Arabia two years earlier, her 7 a.m. appointment would reveal if her application for asylum had been successful or whether she would be forced to leave America.

[SBM]

‘What really scares me is that I wouldn't get this asylum, and I would be returned and I would die young, and that I would lose everything that I tried to build, that I would just fail.’

[SBM]

Leaving her home and Saudi Arabia were against the wishes of her father, who is also her legal guardian, and doing either could have landed her in jail.

[SBM]

Arwa and Moudi [second woman interviewed for the article] have both left Islam.

Among the supporting documents submitted as part of Arwa's asylum application was a copy of a newsletter in which she and two others were declared apostates.

The short newsletter post, which she said was distributed in her local area, detailed how she and two others from her town renounced Islam on social media.

‘The punishment for it can be death,’ the article reminds its readers.

[SBM]

Goingback is not an option

Arwa argued that as she had publicly renounced Islam, had questioned and challenged the country's guardianship system, and had left her home and the country without the appropriate permissions from her guardian, it would not be safe to return.

She told CNN she feared being punished at home for bringing shame to her family and for not obeying her father, and was fearful the state would prosecute her if she did not return to Islam.“ (BBM)

https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/01/16/wo...ekers-us/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

 

[NervousNellie]

I'm very glad to see/hear that LE seem to be taking this investigation very seriously. I hope for justice for the Farea sisters.

 

[madamx]

Could there have been an arranged marriage or two that they were dreading? The thought of life in Saudi Arabia for two young girls may have been too much.

Yes, Exactly, I said the arrange marriage thing way in the beginning too!!
Iam still feeling it. Iam feeling these girls came in 2015, get a taste of America and keep running away <modsnip - not victim friendly>

 

[MimosaMornings]

The family arrived in mid-2015 consisting of mother, two sons and two daughters?
Father is not with them? Who is supporting them if he is not here unless mother is on a work visa? I’m not understanding what’s going on with the family.

 

[OneEye]

Some video coverage at the W. 68th Street location by CBS affiliate/& PIX 11:
WTKR News 3

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Quite a bit of new information in this latest article by Arab Times:

“The relative of Rotana Farea, 22, and Tala Farea, 16, told Arab News that the family of six was just like any other Saudi family who moves between home and abroad. They had decided to move to the United States a few years ago, seeking better schools for the sisters and their two brothers, 18 and 11 years old. The children lived with their mother, Wafa’a, in the Virginia suburbs, and their father, Abdulsalam, often travelled back to Saudi Arabia, where he had a job.

[SBM]

Rotana was specializing in computer and information technology at college and recently moved to New York, where she changed schools and her major. Tala was reported missing when she went to see her sister in New York this summer without her mother’s knowledge, the family member explained.

‘Tala was upset for quite some time after her sister decided to continue her studies in NYC. Yes, it did cause a problem for the family as the mother had to file a missing case report to the police over her daughter’s disappearance, but the search was called off later when they found Tala was with her sister, Rotana. The police told their mother that since her younger daughter was safe with an adult, it’s safe to call off the search.’

An amber alert was issued by the Fairfax County Police Department on Aug. 24 but later was removed after the younger sister’s whereabouts were confirmed.

The two young women were very close to their father as they both were the apples of his eyes, the relative said. Although Saudi students have the option of applying for a full government scholarship to study abroad, Rotana decided not to, indicating that the family is financially well off.

[SBM]

As any teen their age, they were both into fashion, but not very much into social media.

‘They were private and kept to themselves most of the time, but we communicated mostly via Snapchat and it wasn’t a surprise to any of us that they wouldn’t have any accounts on other social media apps,’ said the family member. ‘They were calm and always polite. All families have problems. What kind of sibling relationship would it be without fights every now and then? But that didn’t push them to the edge as the Western media is portraying.’

[SBM]

A statement from the Saudi Arabian consulate in New York City on Monday said it is following up on the case to find out the facts. The embassy in Washington, DC also sought to communicate with the family of the victims ‘to stand with them and help them in this circumstance.’

Arab News contacted the New York Police Department and was told the case was referred to the criminal investigation unit while the cause of death was still pending determination. They do not rule out anything at this time. More updates will be available.” (BBM)
‘They were a happy family,’ says relative of drowned Saudi sisters

 

[foodsmart4]

I don't know who to believe in this case. I feel bad for these girls either way.

 

[OneEye]

The recent Jamal Khashoggi case was an eye opener to me personally on so many levels about the absolute power of the Saudi state. There is alot of information on Wikipedia and many other sources about what precisely an "absolute monarchy, effectively a hereditary dictatorship governed along Islamist lines.[19][20]" is and how it impacts the 32 million citizens of this large country in the Middle East. We also learned alot in the Khashoggi case about "...the ultraconservative Wahhabi religious movement within Sunni Islam has been called "the predominant feature of Saudi culture", with its global spread largely financed by the oil and gas trade.[19][20]". The role of women in Saudi culture and the rights of women remain very traditional and even when Saudi women and girls are permitted to leave Saudi Arabia and live overseas they are still tied quite closely to their male guardian whose permission they require for virtually every decision in their lives. Here is a simple recent article about things that women in Saudi Arabia still can't do to put in perspective what these two victims might have been dealing with in their personal lives. Six things women in Saudi Arabia still can’t do

 

[ghoster]

I'm baffled:

<modsnip - not victim friendly >
double suicide?
murder-suicide?
murder, period?
folie à deux ?

Any I'm missing?

What says Occam?

What say you?

 

[TTF14]

What says Occam?

They were tied together by at least one other person and dumped in the water. I believe they were deceased first. I also believe LE is being tight-lipped about cause of death because they've realized this was not a suicide and they don't want to mess up the investigation.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Like any other Saudi family that moves between home and abroad? I guess if you’re on a tourist visa you pack up and move back and forth every six months? But it sounds like they live in the US on a permanent basis? It’s confusing.

 

[musicaljoke]

From the article:

‘They were a democratic family, they never had any issues and the eldest was sent to college in New York City with her family’s blessing,’ said the family member.

My eldest went to college of her own accord. :/

Yah, even though we paid for it.

She wasn't "sent"!

 

[Elainera]

They were tied together by at least one other person and dumped in the water. I believe they were deceased first. I also believe LE is being tight-lipped about cause of death because they've realized this was not a suicide and they don't want to mess up the investigation.

I agree. If COD was drowning it should have been easy to determine.

 

[OneEye]

Like any other Saudi family that moves between home and abroad? I guess if you’re on a tourist visa you pack up and move back and forth every six months? But it sounds like they live in the US on a permanent basis? It’s confusing.

Little is making sense here. Family has money enough to pay for school and nice living space in VA but their 2 daughters are reportedly living in NYC shelter and seeking asylum? Missing persons report for younger daughter is issued and then retracted?

Father is supposedly in NYC now but my guess is that entire family is frightened about press coverage of their situation. If the family requires political protection I would hope that that US State Dept would reach out to the entire family and the father in particular as he is the decision maker for his family. I also hope the VA police are offering up protection to the family members (particularly the women) that are living in their jurisdiction as we have seen that the long arm of Saudi Arabian justice can reach across borders with little trouble. The consequences for this family if they return to Saudi Arabia could be dire.