SOLVED NY - Tala Farea, 16, Rotana Farea, 22, Hudson River, 24 Oct 2018- COD released: suicide/drowning

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I don’t buy this for a minute
When you look at all the reported circumstances, it just doesn’t equate to suicide and my background is sufficient to have an informed opinion on what we’ve been told and that opinion is that there is a cover up at play here with Trumps friends in the KSA
 
I'm very disappointed with the outcome of this case, but I can't say that I'm not surprised. I've mentioned many times how I think it strange that there were different images of the young ladies that looked nothing alike. In other words, we don't know what they really looked like. And the story about when their family last spoke to them , or how estranged they were from their mother, was full of contradictions. If they were able to live apart from their family for several months, I'm pretty sure they could have continued to do so.
What was the exact nature of their final movements in NYC (were they alone, or hanging with others)?
Where did they go into the water and for how long? Their bodies were floating in the water, which wouldn't happen if they had just drowned, it would have taken a few days. What happened to their personal effects, like their purses? their phones?
I can see if they duct-taped their waists to keep them together as pointing to suicide, but their feet were also covered in tape, over their boots.
So many unanswered questions. RIP Tala and Rotana, hopefully you will see justice some day.
 
I am not sure how to get this to happen or if it would be a popular idea but it would be good to continue to discuss similar cases on a dedicated thread.

This case has been a robust, compassionate discussion. I have a free life compared to the fear and danger many women are facing in my very own (western) country. I'm not satisfied with (but in principal accept) the official version, and without that resolution here I wish to keep the conversation going on similar cases.
 
In this interview, the father rejects the suicide conclusion and claims the two victims were beaten before their death.
Original story in Arabic:
والد "غريقتَي نيويورك" يفجّر المفاجأة: ابنتاي ضحيتا محقّق أمريكي .. هذه أدلتي وسأقاضيه
Reuters' report on this interview:
Father of Saudi sisters found dead in New York rejects suicide scenario | Reuters

Maybe they beat each other up until they were unconscious, since LE would have us believe they would just walk into the river and drown themselves.
 
i
I wonder if in their time in NYC they ever set foot in a mosque and perhaps someone remembers them? I am not sure religion would be a source of comfort to them or not and perhaps they wouldn't have headed to a mosque in a time of crisis as maybe it was too closely tied to what they appeared to be running from? But maybe a mosque wouldn't have been viewed as a place of safety either if they were afraid of being repatriated to KSA.

Here is an interesting article about some of the NYC mosques:
New York City’s Forgotten Muslim Past

List of NYC mosques:
Mosques and Islamic schools in Manhattan, New York City - Salatomatic - your guide to mosques & Islamic schools
Find Salah Times NYC
 
Sorry but this crazy idea entered by head and refuses to go till i post it.
Are they quite sure of the identities of the girls found, was dna retrieved and the match was close but no cigar?
Would the father clearly recognize his daughters if they had bruises ect on each of their faces?
Might someone have pulled off a switcheroo with the girls?
Just tiptoeing here, all speculation, imo.
 
Sorry but this crazy idea entered by head and refuses to go till i post it.
Are they quite sure of the identities of the girls found, was dna retrieved and the match was close but no cigar?
Would the father clearly recognize his daughters if they had bruises ect on each of their faces?
Might someone have pulled off a switcheroo with the girls?
Just tiptoeing here, all speculation, imo.

With the doubt regarding the publicized photos of the sisters, along with their allegedly high-profile burial in what someone upthread called "the Islamic equivalent of the Vatican" (paraphrasing), I think this is definitely a fair question to ask.
 
Not everything is a conspiracy - the investigators and Medical Examiner who worked on this case are some of the best in the world. My guess would be they checked for any foreign fingerprints preset on the duct tape and items on their bodies and found only that of the sisters, in such a way as to show they had bound one another. Also, they probably conducted numerous interviews with everyone associated with them... Suicides are not always as we think they are: When I worked as a Director of Investigations at a 425-bed long-term care psychiatric facility (most resident had schizophrenia, some had severe personality disorders), one resident who committed suicide was the last person in the world I would have thought would do this. He left the facility very early in the morning, walking out the front door (which was always locked and had to be buzzed open by the receptionist) as a few people came in through the open door as the receptionist was distracted and looking the other way. He killed himself by jumping head-first into a very rocky area of Lake Michigan. His head exploded upon contact with the rocks. He did not leave a note. His room was clean and organized, as if he were intending to come back. His Case Manager had no idea he was suicidal. Other staff had no idea he was suicidal. His friends had no idea he was suicidal. As it turned out he had said to his mother only 1-2 days before that he was, "going to jump into the lake to end everything". She never told any of us at the hospital because she thought he was just messing around... A while back Jim Ellison, the vocalist of the band Material Issue (they were a very popular Indie band in Chicago back in the late 1980's and early 1990's) had come over to mine and my roommate's apartment the day before he left this world (both of us had worked as professional musicians way back when, and knew him well - Material Issue actually played a number of shows with the band I was in at the time): He was carrying 3 cans of very, very warm beer from the plastic rings just out in the open... When he came in I offered him some really good ice cold beer that I had, but he refused, choosing instead to drink one of his own - I thought this was kind of odd. He sat down on the couch, but hardly spoke. He had a barely noticeable soft, sweet smile on his face, but was really emotionally distant, like he was somewhere else. He then left after a couple of hours, and my roommate and I just kind of looked at each other and were like, "what the hell was that"? We were very concerned for him because he seemed to be in an odd place psychologically, but we had absolutely no idea at all how much he was actually hurting from the recent break-up with his girlfriend, and what he had planned to do about it: The very next day he went into his garage, closed it up, turned on his scooter, and died from carbon monoxide poisoning. None of us ever, ever, ever thought that would happen... The simple fact is that human behavior is completely unpredictable - we're much too complicated a species; so, in these cases, all you have to go on are the facts that you can uncover! MATERIAL ISSUE FRONT MAN IS FOUND DEAD IN GARAGE
 
Sorry but this crazy idea entered by head and refuses to go till i post it.
Are they quite sure of the identities of the girls found, was dna retrieved and the match was close but no cigar?
Would the father clearly recognize his daughters if they had bruises ect on each of their faces?
Might someone have pulled off a switcheroo with the girls?
Just tiptoeing here, all speculation, imo.

DNA, fingerprints, dental records, physical characteristics, etc are all standard things done in an autopsy. Remember, the people who conduct these are nearly always very experienced medical doctors who work closely with homicide detectives. These people are very, very exacting - they are extremely detailed with regard to their particulars. Conspiracy theories, like someone 'switching' the girl's bodies is beyond ridiculous.
 
DNA, fingerprints, dental records, physical characteristics, etc are all standard things done in an autopsy. Remember, the people who conduct these are nearly always very experienced medical doctors who work closely with homicide detectives. These people are very, very exacting - they are extremely detailed with regard to their particulars. Conspiracy theories, like someone 'switching' the girl's bodies is beyond ridiculous.
Had not intended to introduce a "conspiracy theory" just had to try it out given the odd circumstances of the suicides and everything leading up to them.
Thanks for the good explanation and for sharing your experience with suicidal people, i enjoy reading a variety of opinions and theories.
Not to mention ..
One family grieves, another rejoices after tragic identity mix-up - CNN.com
2010
"The identities of two women involved in a horrific car crash in Arizona last week were mixed up, with one family receiving news that their daughter had died when in fact she was undergoing treatment for her injuries while another family kept watch at her side for six days."
Humboldt crash mixup resonates with U.S. family who lived through similar experience | CBC News
2018
"Whitney Cerak (L) was misidentified as Laura VanRyn (R). Cerak's parents were advised that she had died in a crash in 2006. In fact, she survived. It was VanRyn who died in the crash. (Courtesy Cerak family)"

"In the Broncos crash, Xavier LaBelle was declared dead but had actually survived. Parker Tobin was thought to be alive, but had died. Both players were riding with their teammates when their bus collided with a semi-trailer."
 
Not everything is a conspiracy - the investigators and Medical Examiner who worked on this case are some of the best in the world. My guess would be they checked for any foreign fingerprints preset on the duct tape and items on their bodies and found only that of the sisters, in such a way as to show they had bound one another. Also, they probably conducted numerous interviews with everyone associated with them... Suicides are not always as we think they are: When I worked as a Director of Investigations at a 425-bed long-term care psychiatric facility (most resident had schizophrenia, some had severe personality disorders), one resident who committed suicide was the last person in the world I would have thought would do this. He left the facility very early in the morning, walking out the front door (which was always locked and had to be buzzed open by the receptionist) as a few people came in through the open door as the receptionist was distracted and looking the other way. He killed himself by jumping head-first into a very rocky area of Lake Michigan. His head exploded upon contact with the rocks. He did not leave a note. His room was clean and organized, as if he were intending to come back. His Case Manager had no idea he was suicidal. Other staff had no idea he was suicidal. His friends had no idea he was suicidal. As it turned out he had said to his mother only 1-2 days before that he was, "going to jump into the lake to end everything". She never told any of us at the hospital because she thought he was just messing around... A while back Jim Ellison, the vocalist of the band Material Issue (they were a very popular Indie band in Chicago back in the late 1980's and early 1990's) had come over to mine and my roommate's apartment the day before he left this world (both of us had worked as professional musicians way back when, and knew him well - Material Issue actually played a number of shows with the band I was in at the time): He was carrying 3 cans of very, very warm beer from the plastic rings just out in the open... When he came in I offered him some really good ice cold beer that I had, but he refused, choosing instead to drink one of his own - I thought this was kind of odd. He sat down on the couch, but hardly spoke. He had a barely noticeable soft, sweet smile on his face, but was really emotionally distant, like he was somewhere else. He then left after a couple of hours, and my roommate and I just kind of looked at each other and were like, "what the hell was that"? We were very concerned for him because he seemed to be in an odd place psychologically, but we had absolutely no idea at all how much he was actually hurting from the recent break-up with his girlfriend, and what he had planned to do about it: The very next day he went into his garage, closed it up, turned on his scooter, and died from carbon monoxide poisoning. None of us ever, ever, ever thought that would happen... The simple fact is that human behavior is completely unpredictable - we're much too complicated a species; so, in these cases, all you have to go on are the facts that you can uncover! MATERIAL ISSUE FRONT MAN IS FOUND DEAD IN GARAGE
I am so sorry about your friend Jim.
 
Sorry but this crazy idea entered by head and refuses to go till i post it.
Are they quite sure of the identities of the girls found, was dna retrieved and the match was close but no cigar?
Would the father clearly recognize his daughters if they had bruises ect on each of their faces?
Might someone have pulled off a switcheroo with the girls?
Just tiptoeing here, all speculation, imo.
Just my opinion, but the NYPD has experience with murders and suicides. If NYPD identified the bodies as the sisters, I think they got it right.

jmo
 
I think we have to remember that this is NYPD and MEO, both departments see a lot of crime and suicides. Neither office would just rubber stamp a conclusion. And, if the offices would rubber stamp a conclusion, there are too many people involved who wouldn't stand for it. The MEO would have noted the conditions of the bodies regarding the bruising in addition to doing a full exam on the bodies of these young women. While I am sad for these women and this family, I tend to support the findings of these offices/departments. If the dad had questions, why remove them to Saudi Arabia? Why not ask the question before the girls were on Saudi soil? Something doesn't seem right as the best opportunity for justice would have been at the source of the incident in this case.
 
Saudi Arabia: death of sisters in New York found to be suicide - CNN

"Today, my office determined that the death of the Farea sisters was the result of suicide, in which the young women bound themselves together before descending into the Hudson River," Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Barbara Sampson said in a statement on Tuesday.

My friends and I discussed this very case the other day, most of them have worked in Arabic countries, and with women claiming asylum from their countries. Credible fear stories about honor killings.

I don't believe that these women committed suicide. But it checks a "solved" box.
 
My friends and I discussed this very case the other day, most of them have worked in Arabic countries, and with women claiming asylum from their countries. Credible fear stories about honor killings.

I don't believe that these women committed suicide. But it checks a "solved" box.
I believe the stories of honor killings. I even believe that the SA government wanted the women back on their soil. That said, I can't fathom that the MEO would overlook an honor killing in favor of a suicide ruling. If I wanted to go conspiracy, I would venture that the young women were intimidated by the possibility of an honor killing happening to them and took matters into their own hands. Women in SA are intimidated into silence and compliance by families and the government.
 

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