NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

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NY limo driver was given unsafe vehicle to drive, family says

SCHOHARIE, New York --
The family of the driver of the stretch limo that ran off the road the road and crashed into an upstate New York ditch over the weekend says it believes he was given an unsafe vehicle to drive.

The wife of limo driver Scott Lisinicchia has retained the law offices of Grant & Longworth of Dobbs Ferry, N.Y., which released the following statement Tuesday:

The Lisinicchia family is devastated by the horrific tragedy that occurred in Schoharie and their prayers go out to all the families that lost loved ones. They are mourning their husband, father and brother, and they are also grieving for the other innocent souls who lost their lives. Mrs. Lisinicchia's husband Scott was a loving and caring man who never would have knowingly put others in harm's way. The family believes that unbeknownst to him he was provided with a vehicle that was neither roadworthy nor safe for any of its occupants. We ask all members of the media and public to reserve judgement on the cause of the crash until the New York State Police and the National Transportation Safety Board complete their investigations. Both agencies include some of the most highly skilled and well-trained accident investigators in the country. We also ask that you respect the family's privacy at this most difficult time.
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
Great find! Owner knew the vehicle had seen better days and wanted to unload the monstrosity.
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Yes, and note the CL listing says excellent condition!

We have seen the DOT inspection for the vehicle with several violations from Sept. One of the victims texted her aunt from the limo concerned about the “terrible condition” of the vehicle. Gov. Cuomo said, “the vehicle was not supposed to be on the road.” How dare the company list the limo as being in excellent condition!
 
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I noticed the comment from the driver’s family on that post above.
Mica said:
Yes! And excellent condition, too!
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They do cast aspersions on the limo company for putting him in an unsafe vehicle.

I think it is appropriate to withhold judgement on the driver until till the NTSB releases reports. He died a horrible death, being able to fully see what was happening, unlike the pax who were behind blackout windows, none of which appear to be open at the time of the crash.

Limo drivers tend to be a rough-and-tumble lot, having to deal with a vehicle full of severely drunk or stoned people, or a rowdy bunch itching to get into trouble. They have to corral people and having a working knowledge of the seedy side of life probably is realisticallyt a job requirement.
 
It seems the intersection is very unsafe and the limo construction is unsafe, too

Tragic Accident That Left 20 Dead Reveals Safety Failings of Limousines: A 'Recipe for Disaster'

'Stretch limos are pieced together by cutting a traditional car in half and having plates fitted to stretch its floor and roof, the newspaper reported. While the car was assembled with safety regulations in mind, many of those features are stripped away when it’s turned into a stretch vehicle.

“Before they’re modified, they do have to meet different safety regulations in the U.S., but once a vehicle is modified there are many exemptions,” Raul Arbelaez, an engineer with the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, told NBC News in response to the crash this weekend.

“They don’t have to go back and prove that they meet any of the crash safety criteria,” he added to the outlet.

while the driver and a passenger in the front seat would have to wear seatbelts, passengers riding in the back are not required to. The alignment of the seats exposes another problem, the Times noted — if a vehicle slams into a limo, say, on its left side, the crash would be considered a rear side impact for a passenger positioned on that end. But for someone sitting on the right side, it becomes a head-on collision, which changes the dynamics of how to best provide protection.'

****************************************

"Alan Tavenner, a supervisor for the town of Schoharie, told PEOPLE that the intersection where Saturday’s crash occurred has been the scene of many accidents over the years, due to a deep hill that drivers must navigate as they enter the junction. Because of its design, it is possible for drivers coming down the hill to mistakenly believe the road continues on."
 
Through Google Maps, I just went down 30A for a few miles, dated Sept. 2016. I saw a 55mph Speed Limit sign, roughly about a mile back from the intersection. Then I saw a Stop Sign Ahead - 50 mph sign, as I got closer to the intersection. That's often about all we get, in my experience. In the Google view I was using, there was no flashing red light, or other light at the intersection, but again my virtual road trip was Googl- dated 2016. I've no idea what is there now.
Does anyone remember a live scene of the intersection where it showed a flashing red light? I'll go back and check what I can.
Nearly every town in the US has bad intersections such as this -- the locals know how to handle them in most cases -- I avoid them if at all possible. People who are not familiar with the area, IMO, should be alert when driving an unknown route -- especially someone who is not familiar with the roads in the area -- especially when the driver sees a sign that indicates a stop sign is ahead -- the driver, IMO, should slow down a bit when he/she sees the sign, in advance of coming upon the intersection -- especially with 17 other people in the vehicle. JMO.
This is a horrible tragedy, and like so many, could have been avoided, or a least ended with lesser deaths, IMO. Slow down, slow down, slow down. And if your brakes are failing or gone, you'll know before you get to the intersection, and should be able to better try to make things as safe as possible.

A thought just hit me -- every single person in that limo died -- every one -- could it have been a carbon monoxide leak into the car? That would take the driver out so that he wouldn't have a chance to stop. Apparently the limo was making a horrible noise -- one passenger mentioned to someone on a cell phone that the friends couldn't even talk with each other due the the noise -- was the engine just falling apart, bit by bit? If so, it might be likely that the driver was affected first.
The black box should tell us...
 
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I wonder who was the driver in the review I linked above?
 
Mica said:
NY limo driver was given unsafe vehicle to drive, family says

SCHOHARIE, New York --
The family of the driver of the stretch limo that ran off the road the road and crashed into an upstate New York ditch over the weekend says it believes he was given an unsafe vehicle to drive.

The wife of limo driver Scott Lisinicchia has retained the law offices of Grant & Longworth of Dobbs Ferry, N.Y., which released the following statement Tuesday:

The Lisinicchia family is devastated by the horrific tragedy that occurred in Schoharie and their prayers go out to all the families that lost loved ones. They are mourning their husband, father and brother, and they are also grieving for the other innocent souls who lost their lives. Mrs. Lisinicchia's husband Scott was a loving and caring man who never would have knowingly put others in harm's way. The family believes that unbeknownst to him he was provided with a vehicle that was neither roadworthy nor safe for any of its occupants. We ask all members of the media and public to reserve judgement on the cause of the crash until the New York State Police and the National Transportation Safety Board complete their investigations. Both agencies include some of the most highly skilled and well-trained accident investigators in the country. We also ask that you respect the family's privacy at this most difficult time.
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The driver may have known there were some problems with the car but not that it was so unsafe. He may have been under great pressure to carry on working. It’s the limo owner I am angry with he needs to be extradited and charged to the fullest extent of the law for allowing the death trap to remain in use knowing full well it was unsafe.
 
Here is a link to the license number and it's reported violations
State Police pursuing criminal investigation related to Schoharie limo crash

The Sept. 4 inspection found multiple safety violations of a 2001 Ford Excursion, owned by Prestige, with the license plate TOGALUX1. The vehicle involved in Saturday’s crash was a 2001 Ford Excursion, and there is only one 2001 Ford Excursion listed among Prestige’s vehicles. The Excursion was cited in September for a malfunction of the ABS indicators for the hydraulic brake system; operating a commercial motor vehicle without proof of a periodic inspection; defective emergency exits; and defective windshield wipers.
 
borndem said:
Through Google Maps, I just went down 30A for a few miles, dated Sept. 2016. I saw a 55mph Speed Limit sign, roughly about a mile back from the intersection. Then I saw a Stop Sign Ahead - 50 mph sign, as I got closer to the intersection. That's often about all we get, in my experience. In the Google view I was using, there was no flashing red light, or other light at the intersection, but again my virtual road trip was Googl- dated 2016. I've no idea what is there now.
Does anyone remember a live scene of the intersection where it showed a flashing red light? I'll go back and check what I can.
Nearly every town in the US has bad intersections such as this -- the locals know how to handle them in most cases -- I avoid them if at all possible. People who are not familiar with the area, IMO, should be alert when driving an unknown route -- especially someone who is not familiar with the roads in the area -- especially when the driver sees a sign that indicates a stop sign is ahead -- the driver, IMO, should slow down a bit when he/she sees the sign, in advance of coming upon the intersection -- especially with 19 other people in the vehicle. JMO.
This is a horrible tragedy, and like so many, could have been avoided, or a least ended with lesser deaths, IMO. Slow down, slow down, slow down. And if your brakes are failing or gone, you'll know before you get to the intersection, and should be able to better try to make things as safe as possible.
Click to expand...
But if the speed limit sign is 50 miles, it is not horribly unusual for a driver to be driving at 60. Technically, he was speeding, but on a highway, not an unusual situation.

There is some fault on either Shoharie or whoever is in control of that area of the interstate, too. After the first accident, things needed to change. Now, of course, they will.
 
SuziQ said:
Here is a link to the license number and it's reported violations
State Police pursuing criminal investigation related to Schoharie limo crash

The Sept. 4 inspection found multiple safety violations of a 2001 Ford Excursion, owned by Prestige, with the license plate TOGALUX1. The vehicle involved in Saturday’s crash was a 2001 Ford Excursion, and there is only one 2001 Ford Excursion listed among Prestige’s vehicles. The Excursion was cited in September for a malfunction of the ABS indicators for the hydraulic brake system; operating a commercial motor vehicle without proof of a periodic inspection; defective emergency exits; and defective windshield wipers.
Click to expand...

State police better move fast before these people leave the country, if they haven’t already.
 
Charlot123 said:
But if the speed limit sign is 50 miles, it is not horribly unusual for a driver to be driving at 60. Technically, he was speeding, but on a highway, not an unusual situation.

There is some fault on either Shoharie or whoever is in control of that area of the interstate, too. After the first accident, things needed to change. Now, of course, they will.
Click to expand...

Appears that area was well marked with signage, I don’t think the county will bear any fault.
 
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