NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

[DexterMorgan]

As far as I can tell, the driver was not present, or even aware, of any of the problems that were brought to the attention of the company's negligence to repair the safety issues concerning the vehicle involved in this fatal accident. In fact his widow implied that he expressed concern in driving a safe vehicle. It seems to me the company failed to provide him with a safe vehicle, despite his concerns. Jmo

All Commercial drivers are mandated by state law to do a pretrip inspection on any commercial vehicle before driving.

You have to check tires, brakes, lines, emergency exits, doors, locks and everything.

So Im not blaming the driver but its not too cut and dry if his widow sued whomever if her husband never did a pretrip inspection.

But maybe he did do one and things occurred later? I guess we will find out eventually. Jmo

 

[KaaBoom]

I swear they did more than that. I think they did everything they were able to do.... but they were not able to impound it. I swear I saw it specified somewhere that he was either escorted back to the business, or someone else drove the limo back. This is the closest I can find though.

Driver in fatal limo crash was cited in August for having improper license

Lisinicchia had a CDL-A license that allowed him to drive trucks but he lacked the additional permit needed to legally drive a vehicle capable of holding more than 15 passengers. The police record indicates that a supervising motor carrier investigator with DOT, Martin Duffy, went to the scene to assist and was made aware of the problems with the vehicle and the driver's credentials.

The report indicates the vehicle was driven to the limousine company's "place of business to do inspection." It's unclear where that took place.

The trooper informed Lisinicchia he was "out of service" and not permitted to drive "any motor vehicle" for any commercial motor carrier until he obtained the proper permit.

So to recap. He was an unlicensed driver. Yes, he was unlicensed for that class of vehicle, so he was an unlicensed driver, driving an unregistered commercial vehicle with multiple safety issues. If I showed up in New York without a proper drivers license, driving an unregistered vehicle, with safety issues are you telling me they wouldn't impound my vehicle? Of course they would. They can and they should have impounded the vehicle.

 

[KaaBoom]

He did not have the " appropriate license, which is different to not having a license at all, that's what I was referring to. Jmo

You are just making excuses for the cop. He was not properly licensed to drive that vehicle. Aside from that, the vehicle was not properly registered with the DOT, and had multiple safety issues. You do not let an improperly licensed driver, drive away in an unregistered vehicle, with safety issues. Any one of those three things should have been reason to impound the vehicle.

 

[MsBetsy]

All Commercial drivers are mandated by state law to do a pretrip inspection on any commercial vehicle before driving.

You have to check tires, brakes, lines, emergency exits, doors, locks and everything.

So Im not blaming the driver but its not too cut and dry if his widow sued whomever if her husband never did a pretrip inspection.

But maybe he did do one and things occurred later? I guess we will find out eventually. Jmo

Yes, I didn't get the impression that his widow is suing the company , just that she mentioned he asked about getting a different car. Either way, it has nothing to do with who is responsible. The company is at fault, not the driver.

 

[Mica]

When you say " he" are you referring to the driver or the owner of the company? It is ultimately the company's responsibility, not the driver. Imo

From the linked article...

The driver of the limousine involved in Saturday's fatal crash in Schoharie would have known to check the vehicle thoroughly for safety, including the brake systems, had he obtained the proper commercial-passenger license, based on state Department of Motor Vehicles standards.

Snip

Lisinicchia drove part-time for Prestige Limousine of Gansevoort. In August, he was ticketed by state police in Saratoga Springs for operating the same limo without the proper license, and state officials have cited his license status as a possible issue in the crash. State police said the license status was a factor in their decision to arrest Nauman Hussain, of Cohoes, on a criminally negligent homicide charge Wednesday. Hussain was in charge of the limo company at the time of the crash, troopers allege.

Snip

For a passenger endorsement, the manual emphasizes a requirement that the driver thoroughly inspect the vehicle -- including testing brakes -- before each trip. A DMV-overseen road test is required for the commercial license, and at least a written test is needed for the passenger endorsement. That test is very similar or the same as that given to school bus operators.

 

[MsBetsy]

You are just making excuses for the cop. He was not properly licensed to drive that vehicle. Aside from that, the vehicle was not properly registered with the DOT, and had multiple safety issues. You do not let an improperly licensed driver, drive away in an unregistered vehicle, with safety issues. Any one of those three things should have been reason to impound the vehicle.

Even so, the owner of the company is being charged, not the state trooper.

 

[MimosaMornings]

I have been in a limo multiple times as a passenger - several lengths - but never in a stretched out Expedition or Hummer style vehicle.
A long time ago I worked as a “helper” or “ride along” - sitting in the front passenger seat. I assisted with checking the vehicle prior to picking up passengers (checking rear tail lights, headlights, inside condition, inebriated riders, etc.) I also helped clean the vehicle afterwards. I hated the ones that got stinking drunk and puked. It was not glamorous or fun.

I can’t imagine the poor condition of that limo if it was making that kind of noise. Wonder if there was something else wrong with it such as transmission, axle, etc?

 

[KaaBoom]

Even so, the owner of the company is being charged, not the state trooper.

Lets see how the lawsuits go. I'm betting that the state will settle.

 

[jjenny]

Yes, I didn't get the impression that his widow is suing the company , just that she mentioned he asked about getting a different car. Either way, it has nothing to do with who is responsible. The company is at fault, not the driver.

The driver is dead so it's not possible to charge him. What would have happened if he wasn't dead? Presumably at the very least he would be facing some sort of violation for not having a proper license.

 

[DexterMorgan]

From the linked article...

The driver of the limousine involved in Saturday's fatal crash in Schoharie would have known to check the vehicle thoroughly for safety, including the brake systems, had he obtained the proper commercial-passenger license, based on state Department of Motor Vehicles standards.

Snip

Lisinicchia drove part-time for Prestige Limousine of Gansevoort. In August, he was ticketed by state police in Saratoga Springs for operating the same limo without the proper license, and state officials have cited his license status as a possible issue in the crash. State police said the license status was a factor in their decision to arrest Nauman Hussain, of Cohoes, on a criminally negligent homicide charge Wednesday. Hussain was in charge of the limo company at the time of the crash, troopers allege.

Snip

For a passenger endorsement, the manual emphasizes a requirement that the driver thoroughly inspect the vehicle -- including testing brakes -- before each trip. A DMV-overseen road test is required for the commercial license, and at least a written test is needed for the passenger endorsement. That test is very similar or the same as that given to school bus operators.

Totally agree. You take the written test to complete pt1 of the passengers endorsement. But your road test for that particular endorsement is usually overseen by the State Police or something. In Ca its the chp.

But some class b licenses don't need a passenger endorsement to drive something like a Garbage truck or a Class B vehicle with under so many passengers.

So him and the boss seemed like they neglected making sure it was done. Idk

 

[MsBetsy]

All Commercial drivers are mandated by state law to do a pretrip inspection on any commercial vehicle before driving.

You have to check tires, brakes, lines, emergency exits, doors, locks and everything.

So Im not blaming the driver but its not too cut and dry if his widow sued whomever if her husband never did a pretrip inspection.

But maybe he did do one and things occurred later? I guess we will find out eventually. Jmo

Wow, I had a Commercial Drivers license and not once was I told by the company I worked for that I had to do any of that! I worked in a halfway house for adults with Mental Health Disorders and not once did they even mention it! That's definitely new to me. They never mentioned that to me when I got my license either...at Motor Vehicle, and I had to take the test twice because I failed the first time! After two days camping out at the County Building waiting to take the test they got to know me well! Not once did any government official tell me I was responsible for the vehicle I drove. Maybe its different now... jmo

 

[jjenny]

When you say " he" are you referring to the driver or the owner of the company? It is ultimately the company's responsibility, not the driver. Imo

Just read the article I linked.

 

[jjenny]

Wow, I had a Commercial Drivers license and not once was I told by the company I worked for that I had to any of that! I worked in a halfway house for adults with Mental Health Disorders and not once did they even mention it! That's definitely new to me. They never mentioned that to me when I got my license either...at Motor Vehicle, and I had to take the test twice because I failed the first time! After two days camping out at the County Building waiting to take the test they got to know me well! Not once did any government official tell me I was responsible for the vehicle I drove. Maybe its different now... jmo

Those are DMV standards that are presumably in a booklet somewhere of what you are supposed to be doing. Even regular license tells you to make sure your car is in working order. You check your mirrors, you check your turn signals, etc.

 

[Gardenista]

Wow, I had a Commercial Drivers license and not once was I told by the company I worked for that I had to any of that! I worked in a halfway house for adults with Mental Health Disorders and not once did they even mention it! That's definitely new to me. They never mentioned that to me when I got my license either...at Motor Vehicle, and I had to take the test twice because I failed the first time! After two days camping out at the County Building waiting to take the test they got to know me well! Not once did any government official tell me I was responsible for the vehicle I drove. Maybe its different now... jmo

Maybe it's different from state to state. I posted a link to the NY requirements someplace upthread.

 

[mickey2942]

I’ve only seen this article about a couple who used the same limo and driver for their wedding one year earlier to the day of the crash.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/09/man-w...rash-says-it-shouldve-been-in-the-scrap-yard/

Sounds like the car was quite the "luxury vehicle". I wonder if anyone who got in the "Death Trap", thought about getting out. Something to think about, if you ever have that "feeling", pay attention...

 

[DexterMorgan]

Wow, I had a Commercial Drivers license and not once was I told by the company I worked for that I had to any of that! I worked in a halfway house for adults with Mental Health Disorders and not once did they even mention it! That's definitely new to me. They never mentioned that to me when I got my license either...at Motor Vehicle, and I had to take the test twice because I failed the first time! After two days camping out at the County Building waiting to take the test they got to know me well! Not once did any government official tell me I was responsible for the vehicle I drove. Maybe its different now... jmo

There are 5 parts to a Dmv Commercial driving exam.

Written, Pretrip inspection, Skills test and road test and Medical exam. Atleast in most states.

But Commercial drivers are supposed to do a pretrip inspection everytime. But some just hop in and go. It does happen.

 

[jjenny]

There are 5 parts to a Dmv Commercial driving exam.

Written, Pretrip inspection, Skills test and road test and Medical exam. Atleast in most states.

But Commercial drivers are supposed to do a pretrip inspection everytime. But some just hop in and go. It does happen.

Sounds like this car was in such poor shape that one didn't need a commercial license to know something wasn't right. One passenger reportedly texted that brakes were burning, another complained of noise making them deaf.

 

[MsBetsy]

The driver is dead so it's not possible to charge him. But what exactly do you think would happen if he wasn't dead? They would just say, oh well?

If he wasn't killed I'm sure it would be a whole different story. But as it is, there is none left to blame but the Company, who is ultimately responsible for the maintenance of the vehicle. They are not going to blame a state trooper who gave him a warning not to drive the limo. He had a CSL. The state trooper is not at fault. Jmo like I stated before, his lawyer is looking to blame the road, not anyone else. Yet.

 

[cass523]

Schumer: Feds haven't done enough to investigate limo safety

WASHINGTON (AP) On the heels of a horrific limousine crash that killed 20 people in upstate New York, the Senate's top Democrat is pointing to glaring gaps in safety data that he says exist because federal officials have not done enough to investigate limo wrecks.

"The sad fact here is that right now everyone is talking about limo safety when we could have been studying it for the past few years," Schumer said. "The NTSB knows they need to fix this situation so we can have as much information as possible available."

The agency - charged by Congress to conduct independent probes and make safety recommendations - agreed to investigate limo crashes on a case-by-case basis after a 2015 wreck that killed four women on New York's Long Island.

But Schumer says that since then, multiple crashes should have been investigated and would have netted "critical safety data" about the structure and safety components of limousines. Federal crash data compiled by The Associated Press shows there were seven limousine crashes in 2015 and two in 2016.

Factory-built limousines must meet stringent safety regulations. But luxury cars converted to limos, like the one in last week's crash, often lack such safety components as side-impact air bags, reinforced rollover protection bars and accessible emergency exits.

Few federal regulations govern limos modified after leaving the factory, and regulations often vary by state.

Schumer: Feds haven't done enough to investigate limo safety

 

[Mica]

I wonder what was going on in the Hussain brothers’ lives. Maybe it’s nothing. But they suddenly moved out of their mansion in the later part of the night two days prior to the limo crash. The limo involved in the crash was up for sale. The motel is up for sale. A suspicious death happened in their motel shortly after the crash (although reports say the death is not connected to the owner.) Just seems to be a lot of major changes happening at the same time.