NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

[MimosaMornings]

Sabotage suspected at motel, cottages in Wilton

Shown in picture is Nauman Arslan Hussain. His brother Shahyer is mentioned in the article also as an owner. It’s plausible the father had variations of his name.

They would need rent from the Crest Inn (formerly the Hideaway Motel) to pay $5000 per month rent on that luxurious house they were living in!

 

[Mica]

Shahid Hussain

 

[MsBetsy]

So the NY State Police just wrote him a ticket and let an unlicensed driver drive away in an unsafe vehicle?

He was not unlicensed. He had a Commercial Drivers License which allowed him to carry no more than 15 passengers. He had two extra passengers. According to the Democrat and Chronicle, the state says, "he didn't have the appropriate 'passenger clearance' on his Commercial Drivers license to operate a vehicle with capacity to carry more than 15 passengers."

 

[alibrarian]

Regarding the reports of the limo not taking the most direct route from Amsterdam to Cooperstown...I have only been in the Albany area a few times and I drove through Amsterdam once a few years ago -- but was just thinking, and this is pure conjecture on my part, that perhaps he took that route as a more direct route had more left vs right turns or on/off ramps, or something route related.

I thought of this as I'm teaching my 16 yo how to drive and she prefers a certain way as there are fewer left turns, and she prefers the right hand turns at lights, rather than stopping in a turning lane to make a left.

Again, just thoughts here.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Son of limo company owner charged in fatal crash was living a life of luxury | Daily Mail Online

 

[CARIIS]

Would a converted limo like that have manual transmission? I assumed it would be automatic.

I agree, when it comes to accident investigation, it's the actual, exact cause of the crash that determines liability, ie who is punished for the crash. If the driver had paid for his license, and this had happened, his estate would not be suddenly free from liability. Plenty of drivers with proper licenses are charged with 'Dangerous driving causing death'. Similarly, your vehicle can pass local inspection but there can be something fail, like the electrical system, which is ultimately blamed on the manufacturer, hence so many vehicle recalls.

I am somewhat baffled by the focus on a license. Pilots are licensed , things go wrong and planes crash.

Having a license does not mean one knows how to drive a crappy limo in horrible condition and not crash

Whoever posted about cell phone usage during the final 15 minutes I think nailed this.

and the coasting text in reality has to indicate quite a bit of situational awareness. If there were 17 of us in the back partying most would not be focusing on that kind of thing.

To become aware of coasting "cues" had to emerge ( I don't know seeing the driver getting anxious - handling a turn too quick - the driver overtly telling them -endless speeding up, etc etc ).

And it helps fill in the peculiar NTSB pressers - we all have learned examining cell phones can be time consuming - imagine 20 of them

 

[MsBetsy]

I am somewhat baffled by the focus on a license. Pilots are licensed , things go wrong and planes crash.

Having a license does not mean one knows how to drive a crappy limo in horrible condition and not crash

Whoever posted about cell phone usage during the final 15 minutes I think nailed this.

and the coasting text in reality has to indicate quite a bit of situational awareness. If there were 17 of us in the back partying most would not be focusing on that kind of thing.

To become aware of coasting "cues" had to emerge ( I don't know seeing the driver getting anxious - handling a turn too quick - the driver overtly telling them -endless speeding up, etc etc ).

And it helps fill in the peculiar NTSB pressers - we all have learned examining cell phones can be time consuming - imagine 20 of them

I think the lack of an appropriate license will just be more proof of negligence by the owner, in addition to the apparent lack of concern and failure to provide safe transportation. It's pretty much over for him. Jmo

 

[Jilllian]

Schoharie is a good 25 miles way out of the way from the direct route to Cooperstown. The driver would have to drive 25 miles south to get to Schoharie, then basically head east another 45'ish miles. It would have been a straight shot, pretty much, east/southeast about 55 miles, from Amsterdam to Cooperstown. So he added between 15-20 miles to his route. That's why I was thinking he went the scenic route, as many people want to see the leaves on the twisty, windy roads. That said, if they were on their way to Ommegang, had reservations, and were already late (I've read somewhere their reservation was for noon), then taking their time wouldn't make sense. By taking the trip to Schoharie first, the driver was missing a lot of highway (I90) driving. Maybe that was the plan to avoid state police in the death trap he was driving. He could have been shooting for I88, which you can get on near Schoharie (Cobleskill, I believe), which also would have been an indirect route, but people will take that route to avoid back roads (deer, slower traffic, tractors, etc).

 

[rainynights]

Regarding the reports of the limo not taking the most direct route from Amsterdam to Cooperstown...I have only been in the Albany area a few times and I drove through Amsterdam once a few years ago -- but was just thinking, and this is pure conjecture on my part, that perhaps he took that route as a more direct route had more left vs right turns or on/off ramps, or something route related.

I thought of this as I'm teaching my 16 yo how to drive and she prefers a certain way as there are fewer left turns, and she prefers the right hand turns at lights, rather than stopping in a turning lane to make a left.

Again, just thoughts here.

Good points. If the driver had at all been aware of some braking issues (we don't know if he was, or if there were at that very moment), then I could certainly see a situation where the driver opted for a route that would have the least amount of potential for stopping (i.e., stop signs, stop lights). Perhaps in his mind route 30 was a safer bet for a reason like that, due to the ability to coast for a while.

Of course, it would have been best if the vehicle was never driven in the first place, but sadly that wasn't the case. Jmo

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Has it been reported whether or not all of the passengers embarked the limo at the same location? The circuitous route could be explained by there being multiple stops to pick up various passengers. I've tried keeping up but thread moves quickly, and I might have missed this detail.

I'm suggesting the possibility because this happened when my daughter and three friends wanted a limousine to take them to their 8th grade dance. The girls didn't have "dates" but had heard that groups of students were getting limos for the evening, so we looked into it. Initially, the girls were all going to meet at our house, but one of the mothers insisted that her daughter have the pleasure of the limousine arriving at their home in another subdivision. One of the girls went to that house, the other girl came to our house where all four girls were photographed in and out of the limousine.

 

[CARIIS]

Good points. If the driver had at all been aware of some braking issues (we don't know if he was, or if there were at that very moment), then I could certainly see a situation where the driver opted for a route that would have the least amount of potential for stopping (i.e., stop signs, stop lights). Perhaps in his mind route 30 was a safer bet for a reason like that, due to the ability to coast for a while.

Of course, it would have been best if the vehicle was never driven in the first place, but sadly that wasn't the case. Jmo

The way this tragedy keeps going I am wondering if mileage was a component in the fee - and he was xxxxxx their fees.

or flat out lost

BUT I really think that if there initial plan (bus) was to do a relaxing partying scenic non direct route that would just be changed instantly.

Late already , want to get landed and out of a unrequested monster truck (!)

it sure would not be a fun relaxing ride if they were discussing hearing loss (even in jest - I write like that - but there is most of the time (well OK some of the time!) something that occurs that results in me coming up with something like that!

if it were a little loud -- would mention possibly. But to get to the point (even to be funny - which I do like!) the thought of god we all are going to be deaf by the time we get there -- is something that would occur to me if it is obnoxiously loud.

Not sure if this makes sense-- but the comment when I read it made me think just obnoxiously loud.

I feel quite confident if it were my party and the thing came roaring in - taped up and all - I would make clear to the driver -- skip the "tour" part - just get us there.

And if we all were lucky enough to get out at our destination - I would tell the driver not to pick us up.

I would then of course go get a double - borrow someones cell and block the damn charge

sadly these kids did not have that choice

 

[MsBetsy]

Has it been reported whether or not all of the passengers embarked the limo at the same location? The circuitous route could be explained by there being multiple stops to pick up various passengers. I've tried keeping up but thread moves quickly, and I might have missed this detail.

I'm suggesting the possibility because this happened when my daughter and three friends wanted a limousine to take them to their 8th grade dance. The girls didn't have "dates" but had heard that groups of students were getting limos for the evening, so we looked into it. Initially, the girls were all going to meet at our house, but one of the mothers insisted that her daughter have the pleasure of the limousine arriving at their home in another subdivision. One of the girls went to that house, the other girl came to our house where all four girls were photographed in and out of the limousine.

I think they were all picked up at one location. It was reported that officers had to match all the drivers licenses to the plates of the cars which were parked at one house..

 

[Mica]

Has it been reported whether or not all of the passengers embarked the limo at the same location? The circuitous route could be explained by there being multiple stops to pick up various passengers. I've tried keeping up but thread moves quickly, and I might have missed this detail.

I'm suggesting the possibility because this happened when my daughter and three friends wanted a limousine to take them to their 8th grade dance. The girls didn't have "dates" but had heard that groups of students were getting limos for the evening, so we looked into it. Initially, the girls were all going to meet at our house, but one of the mothers insisted that her daughter have the pleasure of the limousine arriving at their home in another subdivision. One of the girls went to that house, the other girl came to our house where all four girls were photographed in and out of the limousine.

It looks like friends met up at the Steenburg home to take the limo.

Snip

Hours later, investigators flooded the quiet residential street where Axel and Amy Steenburg lived. Under moonlight, they tried to match the license plates of the many cars outside their home with the victims killed inside the limousine that lay ravaged in a ravine, some 25 miles away.

Death at the Crossroads: A Ragged Limo, an Anxious Driver and 17 Friends

 

[gregjrichards]

Hi everyone, I have been MIA due to Hurricane Michael’s eye going directly over us! We were not expecting any damage and were not prepared! We are in the central part of the state of North Carolina

It has been a disaster due to the massive rain and high winds. Many of the trees have short root systems and they just cannot withstand what we went through. The northwest side of the city has been without electricity since Wednesday. It was restored at different times today, Saturday.

There wasn’t a grocery store, pharmacy, gas station,
Restaurant, any business open! Lowes the big box store had a generator and the small WalMart finally opened.
One stop light worked in about 10-14 mile radius.

Traveling was and is like being in a corn maze with so many streets closed from downed trees. I had been grocery shopping on Monday, therefore, lost everything in my freezer and refrigerator. Yes, I bought ice bags, but we went too long with no electricity . The cooler chests were still sold out from Florence.

I haven’t heard of any lives lost so that is the most important part of a storm like this. How are you all? Hope everyone made it safely through.

Off topic.

I’m so glad you are safe I am praying and thinking of everyone affected. It has been heartbreaking watching people who have lost everything on the news.

 

[MsBetsy]

In the latest inspection, the limo was found to have 18 seats but was only certified to carry 10 people, including the driver. (New York Times) "It was cited for a dangling brake line that could make contact with one of its tires. The warning light for its hydraulic braking system was staying on." An inspection report in March found the braking system was not working properly. The limo was "ordered out of service because it's rear emergency exit window and a right side emergency door were inoperable." The limo was not inspected again in the 4 weeks before the crash. Sounds like this Hussain Guy has a big problem. His lawyer basically blamed it on the dangerous road. Jmo

 

[jjenny]

Good points. If the driver had at all been aware of some braking issues (we don't know if he was, or if there were at that very moment), then I could certainly see a situation where the driver opted for a route that would have the least amount of potential for stopping (i.e., stop signs, stop lights). Perhaps in his mind route 30 was a safer bet for a reason like that, due to the ability to coast for a while.

Of course, it would have been best if the vehicle was never driven in the first place, but sadly that wasn't the case. Jmo

At the very least he should have been aware that he shouldn't have been driving it with 17 people in it, as he didn't have a proper license for that. Had he obtained the proper license, he would have known:
"The driver of the limousine involved in Saturday's fatal crash in Schoharie would have known to check the vehicle thoroughly for safety, including the brake systems, had he obtained the proper commercial-passenger license, based on state Department of Motor Vehicles standards."
Proper license would have required driver to inspect limo

 

[MsBetsy]

At the very least he should have been aware that he shouldn't have been driving it with 17 people in it, as he didn't have a proper license for that. Had he obtained the proper license, he would have known:
"The driver of the limousine involved in Saturday's fatal crash in Schoharie would have known to check the vehicle thoroughly for safety, including the brake systems, had he obtained the proper commercial-passenger license, based on state Department of Motor Vehicles standards."
Proper license would have required driver to inspect limo

When you say " he" are you referring to the driver or the owner of the company? It is ultimately the company's responsibility, not the driver. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Good points. If the driver had at all been aware of some braking issues (we don't know if he was, or if there were at that very moment), then I could certainly see a situation where the driver opted for a route that would have the least amount of potential for stopping (i.e., stop signs, stop lights). Perhaps in his mind route 30 was a safer bet for a reason like that, due to the ability to coast for a while.

Of course, it would have been best if the vehicle was never driven in the first place, but sadly that wasn't the case. Jmo

As far as I can tell, the driver was not present, or even aware, of any of the problems that were brought to the attention of the company's negligence to repair the safety issues concerning the vehicle involved in this fatal accident. In fact his widow implied that he expressed concern in driving a safe vehicle. It seems to me the company failed to provide him with a safe vehicle, despite his concerns. Jmo

 

[KaaBoom]

He was not unlicensed. He had a Commercial Drivers License which allowed him to carry no more than 15 passengers. He had two extra passengers. According to the Democrat and Chronicle, the state says, "he didn't have the appropriate 'passenger clearance' on his Commercial Drivers license to operate a vehicle with capacity to carry more than 15 passengers."

I'm talking about the earlier incident. The article says "Lisinicchia was cited for operating without a proper license". Normally when someone is found to be driving without a proper license, their vehicle has to be towed, or at very least a proper licensed driver has to come and get it. They are not allowed to just drive it away. Which is apparently what happened. IHMO, the cop is guilty of gross negligence for allowing him to legally drive away in an unsafe vehicle.

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm talking about the earlier incident. The article says "Lisinicchia was cited for operating without a proper license". Normally when someone is found to be driving without a proper license, their vehicle has to be towed, or at very least a proper licensed driver has to come and get it. They are not allowed to just drive it away. Which is apparently what happened. IHMO, the cop is guilty of gross negligence for allowing him to legally drive away in an unsafe vehicle.

He did not have the " appropriate license, which is different to not having a license at all, that's what I was referring to. Jmo