NY - Twins, boy and girl, 5, found dead in Bronx apartment, no signs of obvious trauma, Mount Hope, 18 Dec 2023

[vlbay]

sounds like meningitis, which can kill quickly. I had a friend whose brother complained of an ear infection and died overnight.

 

[Laughing]

Genetic mutation?

4 Dead Infants, a Convicted Mother, and a Genetic Mystery

Kathleen Folbigg was found guilty of killing her babies. One scientist suspected the real culprit was mutant DNA—and went on a tireless quest to prove it.

www.wired.com

Patricia Stallings - National Registry of Exonerations

www.law.umich.edu

IDK, something to consider/discuss as we wait for toxicology reports.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[imstilla.grandma]

sounds like meningitis, which can kill quickly. I had a friend whose brother complained of an ear infection and died overnight.

Possibly, although years ago, I had to rush my daughter to the ER and they immediately intubated her because her dr had had punched a hole in her lungs with trigger point injections. Anyways, that’s not it - while they were putting her chest tube in, I immediately passed out and was unresponsive. I came to and I had several drs in the room. My head was killing me. They took me in the er room next door and did a spinal tap on me. it turned out, I had meningitis. I was sick as hell but my daughter stayed in the hospital longer than I did. They released me later that evening. Just a lot of pain.

 

[tlcya]

sounds like meningitis, which can kill quickly. I had a friend whose brother complained of an ear infection and died overnight.

Meningitis is scary indeed. My youngest son had it when he was a baby. Spent a week in PICU getting an IV antibiotic cocktail. We thought we would lose him and you are right, it was sudden, came on during what we thought was a bad cold w ear infection.

What I remember most is his blood curdling screams. He was in such pain. That is why we went to ER. Those screams. I'd never heard the like before or since. It was clear something was very very wrong

 

[iamshadow21]

Genetic mutation?

4 Dead Infants, a Convicted Mother, and a Genetic Mystery

Kathleen Folbigg was found guilty of killing her babies. One scientist suspected the real culprit was mutant DNA—and went on a tireless quest to prove it.

www.wired.com

Patricia Stallings - National Registry of Exonerations

www.law.umich.edu

IDK, something to consider/discuss as we wait for toxicology reports.

jmho ymmv lrr

The chances of them both dying at exactly the same time from something genetic is, I imagine, vanishingly small. Even if they were identical twins, odds are, it's not going to happen. Folbigg's kids were all different ages. A toxin or short term infection is far more likely.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

“As a mother, when I heard about that, I just wanted to cry, because I have two kids of my own and I cannot imagine going through that. That must be hell,” Fermin said
Vigil held for 5-year-old twins found dead in the Bronx

 

[Sillybilly]

Just spit-balling here until there is news of a diagnosis.

Most kids are drawn to animals. I had two 2 close calls with rabid foxes when I was maybe 5 or 6. Both were shot and confirmed later as positive for rabies.

Map of rabies occurrences in NYC 2023. Racoons are a common carrier, and the only case reported in the Bronx area (where I believe this family resides) was a skunk. I see Staten Island had 1 case in a cat. Any chance these youngsters had any simultaneous interaction with a cat, racoon, or bat?

https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/cd/animal-rabies-2023.pdf

Twins are known to be quite inseparable and probably have even more close physical contact than non twins. If both twins were infected at the same time (i.e. both playing with a stray cat , dog, etc on the street), I could see the progression of the infection being simultaneous.

While rabies is normally acquired through a bite, the virus can enter the body via other means:

from: Rabies (for Parents) - Nemours KidsHealth).

Is Rabies Contagious?​

Rabies is not contagious from person to person. The virus most often spreads through bites from an infected animal. But it can also spread if the animal's saliva (spit) gets directly into a person's eyes, nose, mouth, or an open wound (such as a scratch or a scrape).

 

[airportwoman]

My mind goes to some type of unregulated folk remedy.

That could also fall under the category of poison.

 

[airportwoman]

This just happened in Washington state as well - at Evergreen State College, someone died in the dorm buildings due to carbon monoxide and three others were hospitalized due to exposure. It happens a lot this time of year due to propane stoves and heating.

When I lived in my old town, there was a big story on our local news about a family that almost died from CO poisoning. The mother did have migraines, but then she "had one" that wouldn't go away, and then the husband and kids had a lot of nausea and vomiting, also with headaches. After the mom called the school for the 2nd or 3rd day in a row to report that the children (IIRC there were 3 or 4, all grade-schoolers) would be absent, the school nurse asked if they'd had their house tested for CO. They hadn't - and when the HVAC guy arrived, he turned on the meter and told them to leave the house IMMEDIATELY and he wouldn't have even told them to take their dog or cat (can't remember which) with them if it hadn't been right there in the room. They grabbed their keys and ran out into the snow without coats or shoes, and the HVAC guy opened the windows and went looking for the problem when it was finally safe for him to do so. IIRC, they went to a motel and all of them recovered quickly, and the furnace was repaired.

 

[airportwoman]

Do you remember if the problem was the paint itself (lead or other chemicals?) or something like pesticides/insecticides that had contaminated the wall?
Just curious because you'd think if eating some dried paint was typically lethal, it would happen to more children. JMO.

I've seen this program, more than once. Houses built before 1978, when lead paint was banned, may have it, and the family were IIRC recent immigrants from Sudan or Ethiopia and were living in an older house that was somewhat dilapidated and had peeling paint on the outdoor stairway.

Lead poisoning does not kill quickly, and can be very difficult to diagnose. Every case I was involved in treating, with one exception, was a dog whose people were renovating an old house, and they caught the dog licking up paint scrapings; apparently, dogs really like the taste of lead paint.

Lead was put in paint to make the pigments brighter.

 

[airportwoman]

Hantavirus is an interesting idea, though you'd think other people would have inhaled it, too? The symptoms seem like a possibility:

Signs & Symptoms | Hantavirus | DHCPP | CDC

www.cdc.gov

Hantavirus is extremely unlikely. The Sin Nombre disease ("the disease without a name") that terrified people in the Four Corners region in the summer of 1993 is now known to be a summertime disease, spread by the urine of the deer mouse, which lives in the high desert area. There had been a population explosion of deer mice that summer and that and some other factors led to multiple cases popping up, and as is usually the case with things like this, it turned out not to be a new disease.

Back in the day, the Navajo medicine men knew that the deer mouse carried a deadly infectious disease, and ordered that any belongings that came into contact with them be destroyed by burning.

 

[maamager]

I have an identical twin sister. My experience is objective but certainly the majority of twins — she’s is quite literally my other half. When we were younger, we shared EVERYTHING (even a big bed until we were 16 — it was economical and nbd).

I can just see these two angels incubating a horrible sickness. Leaves my stomach in knots. They rest together at the very least.

 

[katydid23]

Bronx twins, 5, vomited violently, likely died from ‘medical tragedy,’ cops say

The children’s mother told police she found them throwing up in their beds around 3 a.m. Monday, a police source said.

www.nydailynews.com

The 5-year-old twins found dead in their family’s Bronx apartment appear to have died from a “medical tragedy,” cops said Tuesday.

The children’s mother told police she found them throwing up in their beds at around 3 a.m. Monday, a police source said. She cared for them and later went to take a shower, leaving them briefly.
....snipped...

She last saw them alive at 5 a.m., when she noticed they were in medical distress and were foaming at the mouth and nose, Chief of Detectives Joseph Kenny said in a Tuesday news briefing.

The mom performed CPR in the apartment on E. 175th St. near Topping Ave. until medics arrived and found the children in a state of rigor mortis in their beds.
,,,snipped....

After the horrifying discovery, the distraught mom was taken to an area hospital for observation, NYPD Assistant Chief Benjamin Gurley said Monday.

“She’s not injured but she’s emotionally destroyed,” said Gurley, the commanding officer of NYPD Patrol Borough Bronx.

 

[airportwoman]

I'm sure the children will be autopsied, if they haven't been already, and I hope it can tell us what happened.

 

[Sillybilly]

Bronx twins, 5, vomited violently, likely died from ‘medical tragedy,’ cops say

The children’s mother told police she found them throwing up in their beds around 3 a.m. Monday, a police source said.

www.nydailynews.com

The 5-year-old twins found dead in their family’s Bronx apartment appear to have died from a “medical tragedy,” cops said Tuesday.

The children’s mother told police she found them throwing up in their beds at around 3 a.m. Monday, a police source said. She cared for them and later went to take a shower, leaving them briefly.
....snipped...

She last saw them alive at 5 a.m., when she noticed they were in medical distress and were foaming at the mouth and nose, Chief of Detectives Joseph Kenny said in a Tuesday news briefing.

The mom performed CPR in the apartment on E. 175th St. near Topping Ave. until medics arrived and found the children in a state of rigor mortis in their beds.
,,,snipped....

After the horrifying discovery, the distraught mom was taken to an area hospital for observation, NYPD Assistant Chief Benjamin Gurley said Monday.

“She’s not injured but she’s emotionally destroyed,” said Gurley, the commanding officer of NYPD Patrol Borough Bronx.

Not sure about the accuracy of reporting between the different publications, but ...

3:00 am throwing up in their beds
5:00 am last seen alive, foaming at the mouth and nose
11:21 am first responders called and find children in rigor

from: 2 young children found dead in Mount Hope section of Bronx; investigation underway

First responders were called to a sixth-floor apartment on the 200 block of East 175th Street in the Mount Hope section at 11:21 a.m. Monday.

 

[Sillybilly]

Pondering poisons such as ..
candy left over from Halloween trick or treating
adult meds that resemble Smarties/M&Ms, etc
new plants in the household that might be poisonous to children

 

[ChatteringBirds]

That timeline doesn't make sense, in my opinion. I assume it could be due to error in reporting?

 

[caradana]

MOO: it‘s aspiration secondary to CO.

 

[dms]

CO? (Humor me please, I'm not firing on all cylinders yet this morning)

 

[dulcinea]

CO? (Humor me please, I'm not firing on all cylinders yet this morning)

Carbon monoxide