GUILTY NY - Vincent Viafore, 46, Newburgh, 19 April 2015 - #1

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I'm going to be honest, I don't feel sympathy for her. I don't think she's naive. I think she's hopeful that if his body is never found, they can't or won't convict her.
 
hisjerseygirl said:
I'm going to be honest, I don't feel sympathy for her. I don't think she's naive. I think she's hopeful that if his body is never found, they can't or won't convict her.
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She can hope all she wants, there's no way i believe LE is keeping her locked on murder charges without something very strong against her. Just MOO
 
I think they have her where she is because she has a valid passport and a family in Latvia. Possibly part of her statements to police had something to do with "going home" or "getting out of here".

They have no body, they have no definitive proof how he died or even if he died. We have a Grand Jury that may or may not have brought an indictment against her, nobody seems to really know. She'll be out of jail by Monday if they didn't.

They have a Kayak that may or may not have been tampered with. Who is to say whatever they found wasn't some modification that Viafore made himself or had someone else do for him ? Maybe that modification is what ultimately contributed to his demise.

They are WAY ahead of themselves on this case. Find the body, establish COD, establish MOD, and then build your case around the evidence and the facts, not a statement made by some girl that speaks broken English and may have a problem translating her words into proper English.
 
All valid points steelman, but in that case couldn't they hold her on some other less serious charge? IDK it's just murder seems too "heavy " ykwim?
 
Aynia said:
All valid points steelman, but in that case couldn't they hold her on some other less serious charge? IDK it's just murder seems too "heavy " ykwim?
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All I know is this, be damn careful what comes out of your mouth to the cops there in Newburgh, N.Y.--- If they don't like the way it sounds, you'll be in leg irons and talking through plexiglass before you can say, "know what I mean, officer?"
 
SStarr33 said:
This is so confusing. Are they saying that since she has been held for over 6 days that she has been indicted? And if so, what is the reason for not announcing it?
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I don't know. I mean, how are her constitutional rights to a speedy trial impacted by the lack of a preliminary hearing? Is one scheduled? If not, there's going to be problems.

If she hasn't been indicted and the GJ is not continuing to deliberate, I do think she'd need to be out by Monday. And if the GJ dismisses the case, it's over.

A lot of mystery here. I have so many questions.

steelman said:
I think they have her where she is because she has a valid passport and a family in Latvia. Possibly part of her statements to police had something to do with "going home" or "getting out of here".

They have no body, they have no definitive proof how he died or even if he died. We have a Grand Jury that may or may not have brought an indictment against her, nobody seems to really know. She'll be out of jail by Monday if they didn't.

They have a Kayak that may or may not have been tampered with. Who is to say whatever they found wasn't some modification that Viafore made himself or had someone else do for him ? Maybe that modification is what ultimately contributed to his demise.

They are WAY ahead of themselves on this case. Find the body, establish COD, establish MOD, and then build your case around the evidence and the facts, not a statement made by some girl that speaks broken English and may have a problem translating her words into proper English.
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We have no idea what the police have. We just don't know the evidence. Jhessye Shockley's egg donor was just convicted of murder and sentenced to life for the death of her daughter with no body or even definitive proof she was dead. So the lack of a body does not mean these charges were brought too quickly.

If the police have the tendency, as you suggest elsewhere, to arrest easily, quickly without forethought and on a whim based on suspect behavior that annoys them, they would have a poor arrest to indictment ratio and a poor arrest to conviction ratio. Is that the case? If not, I would view your comments as anectodal opinion which may not be helpful in determining whether LE jumped the gun. Know what I mean?
 
kimi_SFC said:
:tyou: luckyseven for posting this article. From your link:
(snip)

Under New York State law, a defendant charged with a felony in criminal court must be released within six days unless a preliminary hearing is held, resulting in continued incarceration. Alternatively, a defendant can be kept in custody beyond six days if the district attorney files written certification with the court that an indictment has been voted on by a grand jury. Such a submission indicates only that a vote by the 23-member grand jury has been taken, not that a final indictment has been issued.

----
BBM
I guess this ^^^^ is how the DA is holding her past 6 days?
:thinking:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Is the certification public?
 
Aynia said:
All valid points steelman, but in that case couldn't they hold her on some other less serious charge? IDK it's just murder seems too "heavy " ykwim?
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Was wondering if they could have taken her passport because she's a material witness, or a POI...
 
gitana1 said:
I don't know. I mean, how are her constitutional rights to a speedy trial impacted by the lack of a preliminary hearing? Is one scheduled? If not, there's going to be problems.

If she hasn't been indicted and the GJ is not continuing to deliberate, I do think she'd need to be out by Monday. And if the GJ dismisses the case, it's over.

A lot of mystery here. I have so many questions.



We have no idea what the police have. We just don't know the evidence. Jhessye Shockley's egg donor was just convicted of murder and sentenced to life for the death of her daughter with no body or even definitive proof she was dead. So the lack of a body does not mean these charges were brought too quickly.

If the police have the tendency, as you suggest elsewhere, to arrest easily, quickly without forethought and on a whim based on suspect behavior that annoys them, they would have a poor arrest to indictment ratio and a poor arrest to conviction ratio. Is that the case? If not, I would view your comments as anectodal opinion which may not be helpful in determining whether LE jumped the gun. Know what I mean?
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Even you have to admit, bringing second degree murder charges against someone for inconsistent statements is a bit of a stretch, especially after a traumatic accident. How do they know what she told them is factual or not without being able to examine the body and see if it matches up with what she told them ?

We see tons of these cases here where the people in the forums are literally yelling through their screens for the cops to make an arrest, and they won't do it. They have motive, they have method, and they have opportunity....but they have no body, so they let the perp skip around town unimpeded. Sometimes for weeks, months and even years.

This case is pretty much the polar opposite of that, in just about every way. They make an arrest first, then they try to build a case around it. It's flimsy.
 
eucalyptuz said:
More (somewhat gossipy) background on Angelika:



http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...elika-graswald-poughkeepsie-profile/26742931/

I can understand the reference to her Baltic heritage. I have known many people from the region and they are often very passionate, but somehow coldly passionate. It just might be that she is telling the truth and the language barrier and the coldness (or matter-of-factness) of her tone created suspicion.
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sorry for butting in but i am married to an ethnic latvian and i won't start in the differences between ethnic latvians and russian latvians, but i don't find all of them coldly passionate, some are, some aren't, just like latinos, some of us are hotheads, some aren't (just playing with cliches here)
she must just be a factual person which is just the way she is, might not sell newspapers or be the best way to advance an innocence plea but, as we all have seen in WS, different people react in different ways
just started reading the thread BTW
 
LAWYER CALLING FOR HER TO BE RELEASED FROM JAIL

The lawyer for Angelika Graswald said she hasn't been indicted by a grand jury in the death of Vincent Viafore and should be freed.

"If she's been indicted for murder in the second degree, which I think is going to be difficult to do, if that's the case just let us know," said Richard Portale, defense attorney.

Portale said Graswald has been held for nine days. The White Plains-based attorney now represents the 35-year-old murder suspect, although she has yet to have been formally charged.

"We've been given different answers, inconsistent answers, she's been indicted, she's not, murder in the second degree, not murder in the second degree, so I think everybody just wants some disclosure."

"We've had hours of conversations with Ms. Graswald and I don't know what evidence they could have , not only in the fact that there was a death, but that there was criminal means used to cause that death," Portale said.

http://7online.com/news/lawyer-calling-for-missing-kayakers-fiance-to-be-released-from-jail/707383/
 
Graswald’s new legal team also includes Forensic Scientist Michael Archer who worked on the infamous Joran Van Der Sloot case in Aruba.
Archer told Aiello he sees big problems with the Graswald prosecution.

“There’s no hole in the bottom of the kayak and, as we understand it, the whole theory of this case is that she tampered with the kayak – it would sink and he would drown,” Archer said. “We know that didn’t happen because they have the kayak. The kayak is not at the bottom of the river.”

As for Graswald’s calm demeanor during an interview before her arrest, her legal team said she was raised in an Eastern European culture that frowns on emotional displays, Aiello reported.

Investigators have been extremely stingy with information, but it appears Graswald is being held on a sealed indictment — but it’s not a murder charge, Aiello reported.

Her defense team will go to court next week to demand more information and an opportunity to argue for bail.

Investigators are not actively searching for Viafore’s body.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/08/missing-kayaker-case-fiancee/
 
Investigators are not actively searching for Viafore’s body.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/08/missing-kayaker-case-fiancee/

I find this statement worrying. Does that mean they've given up on the idea of finding a body in the water? Do they believe the body is elsewhere? Do they think there is no body? It seems that in a case which hinges on the existence of some sort of physical evidence for proof, that to throw in the towel on the search almost seems to say that there is no case....?!?
 
On second thought, I wonder if they are doing it pro-bono because this case has gotten so much attention. It would be a smart move.
 
JerseyGirl said:
LAWYER CALLING FOR HER TO BE RELEASED FROM JAIL

The lawyer for Angelika Graswald said she hasn't been indicted by a grand jury in the death of Vincent Viafore and should be freed.

"If she's been indicted for murder in the second degree, which I think is going to be difficult to do, if that's the case just let us know," said Richard Portale, defense attorney.

Portale said Graswald has been held for nine days. The White Plains-based attorney now represents the 35-year-old murder suspect, although she has yet to have been formally charged.

"We've been given different answers, inconsistent answers, she's been indicted, she's not, murder in the second degree, not murder in the second degree, so I think everybody just wants some disclosure."

"We've had hours of conversations with Ms. Graswald and I don't know what evidence they could have , not only in the fact that there was a death, but that there was criminal means used to cause that death," Portale said.

http://7online.com/news/lawyer-calling-for-missing-kayakers-fiance-to-be-released-from-jail/707383/
Click to expand...

Doing what a defense lawyer should be doing.
 
eucalyptuz said:
Investigators are not actively searching for Viafore’s body.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/05/08/missing-kayaker-case-fiancee/

I find this statement worrying. Does that mean they've given up on the idea of finding a body in the water? Do they believe the body is elsewhere? Do they think there is no body? It seems that in a case which hinges on the existence of some sort of physical evidence for proof, that to throw in the towel on the search almost seems to say that there is no case....?!?
Click to expand...

I find that weird too, except perhaps they know from experience it's more efficient to wait for the body to surface?
 
steelman said:
All I know is this, be damn careful what comes out of your mouth to the cops there in Newburgh, N.Y.--- If they don't like the way it sounds, you'll be in leg irons and talking through plexiglass before you can say, "know what I mean, officer?"
Click to expand...

Definitely not how I would describe the way our law enforcement works here in Newburgh, NY--local or state. :moo:
 
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