GUILTY NY - Vincent Viafore, 46, Newburgh, 19 April 2015 - #1

[Aynia]

Thank you so much BunnyHop for all the useful information you give us about kayaks, the thanks button is not enough.

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[Inthedetails]

Its a different jurisdiction altogether so it's not a matter of bumping up. It's a choice as to which jurisdiction charges. But sometimes both can charge. In such a case, if the state fails to convict the Feds may have a second bite at the apple.

Thank you! Love learning new info.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't know but I've wondered if with a person in it, a kayak could take on enough water to put them under the water line but when the person is free from the kayak, there'd be enough buoyancy without the weight, to resurface?

Keep in mind the plug was found in their apartment. That doesn't tell us WHEN the plug was removed because she could've removed it on the day of the murder and kept it for some reason. Or, it could've been removed beforehand and left at home.

It is strange that he made it TO the island without incident and only capsized on the way back.

 

[Inthedetails]

Its a different jurisdiction altogether so it's not a matter of bumping up. It's a choice as to which jurisdiction charges. But sometimes both can charge. In such a case, if the state fails to convict the Feds may have a second bite at the apple.

Gitana,
Would charges and/or penalties be different? Would she be facing more prison time in one jurisdiction over the other? I guess I'm asking if she had the choice, what would be the better jurisdiction from her point of view. Or doesn't it really matter?
TIA

 

[wfgodot]

I think I'm safe when I say the feds want no part of this one.

 

[JerseyGirl]

I think there's more we don't know about yet.
There may be more witnesses.
If they found her diary, I assume they had a search warrant, so who knows what else they may have found.

I find the timing suspicious, that she waited at least 20 minutes before calling 911 and then conveniently capsizes as a boat just happens to be coming along. If there were witnesses, why didn't they call 911?

JG, was it you that found a link to the witnesses knowing her?

Yes:

Barbara Gottlock, a friend of Graswald and did volunteer work with her, was stunned by the arrest. She said that Graswald seemed to be "happy and in love" with her fiance. "She never said anything in my presence negative about him," she said.

Gottlock said she and her husband, whose home overlooks the water, remember seeing Graswald and Viafore just as they pushed their kayaks into the water from Bannerman's Island. "I could see a woman and a man out there, but I couldn't make out faces," Gottlock said. "We put two and two together and figured that's her. And then she sent a few pictures from the island before she left."

The Gottlocks keep a telescope in their living room; they said Graswald asked them to use it to search for her fiance's body before she was arrested.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...der-Angelika-Graswald-New-York-301826811.html

 

[lynxofsd]

...she confessed in some detail.

...[the defense] must be forgetting that SHE CONFESSED !!!!!

And, perhaps falsely.

One need look no further than a few miles down the Hudson for ample evidence that confessions to crimes do not always correspond with actual involvement in them.

NYC has already paid out $41 million in damages to the defendants in the 1989 Central Park jogger case--a judgment meted out partly because of unlawful coercion of the defendants by law enforcement to implicate themselves in a crime they did not commit.

For your perusal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Central_Park_Five

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/20/n...r-case-are-to-settle-suit-for-40-million.html

==========================================

I don't know whether AG is guilty as charged or not, but I certainly wouldn't hang her on the basis of her confession.

Maybe we could wait for her trial to end first, at the least.

 

[RR0004]

From the New York Times:

[h=1]Kayak Suspect Moved Paddle Away as Fiancé Died, Prosecutors Say[/h]
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/n...away-as-fiance-died-prosecutors-say.html?_r=0

 

[DayLea]

From the New York Times:

[h=1]Kayak Suspect Moved Paddle Away as Fiancé Died, Prosecutors Say[/h]
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/n...away-as-fiance-died-prosecutors-say.html?_r=0

From this link:

The authorities have not disclosed the source of the details in their version of how events unfolded

 

[kimi_SFC]

From the New York Times:

[h=1]Kayak Suspect Moved Paddle Away as Fiancé Died, Prosecutors Say[/h]
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/n...away-as-fiance-died-prosecutors-say.html?_r=0

The authorities have not disclosed the source of the details in their version of how events unfolded, but prosecutors did say that if the case goes to trial they plan to include as evidence written and oral statements from Ms. Graswald from the night of Mr. Viafore’s disappearance as well as from questioning by investigators the day before she was charged.

IMV, that's three layers of evidence for the defense team to overcome. If any of the questioning was audio and/or video recorded, the Ms. Graswald will have an even more difficult time convincing a jury of a so-called language barrier, a misunderstanding, or her innocence.

The State has no reason to lay its case-in-chief out for the media in advance of the trial. As we've already witnessed prior to the presser announcing the positive ID of the victim and the formal indictment, the DA appears to be playing this close to the vest.

Perhaps it's best (to prevent any accusation of jury pool contamination) :dunno:

I have a feeling there is plenty we don't know. :moo:


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[wfgodot]

It's close to the vest as there is little to play, perhaps.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Hudson River Kayak Case: DA Gives New Details on Alleged Killing - ABC News

Embedded video of today's presser and More@Link:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/hudson-river-kayak-mystery-vincent-viafores-body-idd/story?id=31307061



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[kimi_SFC]

Prosecutors in indictment: Graswald pulled plug on Viafore's kayak before he drowned | recordonline.com Mobile Edition
By Heather Yakin This is one of the journalists who was live tweeting from today's presser - see tweets posted upthread.

[...]
Hoovler declined to comment on the autopsy or how the identification was confirmed. Toxicology is routinely done in homicide cases in Orange County, and will be done in this case, he said. Cause of death will be released in due course during the court proceedings, and only at the court’s direction, he said.
[...]
Orange County is handling the case under a section of Criminal Procedure Law that grants jurisdiction to prosecute an offense that occurs “on board a vessel navigating or lying in any river, canal or lake” in the state to any county that borders the body of water.
[...]
http://m.recordonline.com/article/20150526/NEWS/150529593

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[silly1]

Just thinking out loud again...

I originally thought a gun was involved as he was in good shape and larger than AG but since it wasn't mentioned yesterday it clearly isn't the case. So how else could she have overpowered him? I think the toxicology reports are going to reveal that now.

I think she ALMOST pulled off a perfect crime. I'll be interested in hearing: whose life vest was she wearing? How long ago the drain plug was removed and why? What substances are revealed in the toxicology report? I think that will differentiate between manslaughter and murder 2.

Based on all of the reading yesterday, I think her biggest mistake came from as she put "talking too much.". As they always say...the truth you remember, the lies you forget. Clearly under the stress of questioning, she simply couldn't remember her original story. Her changing stories and display of atypical behaviors in the days afterwards have already sealed her fate in my opinion.

 

[wfgodot]

A 911 call just after sundown from waters 46 degrees cold, from a woman about five feet tall: her six-two boyfriend's kayak -- one ill-suited to conditions on the Hudson -- had capsized -- and he was in the choppy waters wearing neither a wet or dry suit nor a personal flotation device.

The only witnesses at this point known to us -- a couple viewing this darkening scene on a telescope, from which, as he said, "I could see a woman and a man out there, but I couldn't make out faces." His wife added, "We put two and two together and figured that's her."

The woman's kayak also capsized; she was treated for hypothermia.

Leaving post-tragedy conjecture aside for a bit -- it sounds like the Hudson did it.

 

[silly1]

Hoovler said authorities believe "there are people out there who may know more" about the day Viafore died, or circumstances of the couple's relationship. The police investigation is ongoing, and the DA's Office is asking anyone with information to come forward.

Portale said that opens the door for anyone seeking to "cash in" on their "15 minutes of fame," and he doesn't "think it's the way you should be prosecuting cases.

"Why doesn't the district attorney put an ad in the paper?" Portale added sarcastically.

From: http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...wald-tampered-viafores-kayak-paddle/27991105/

Really? Not that I follow a lot of criminal cases, but I have seen this done before. How else are the investigators supposed to get word out that they are looking for witnesses--perhaps boaters that may have been out there with binoculars, birdwatchers at Plum Point (or anywhere along the Hudson in the area) with binoculars/scopes/cameras, and other people who may not stay up to date with the news and may not be aware that they observed something important before or after the crime? After all, the boaters from Cornwall Yacht Club on their way to help saw her intentionally enter the water. Maybe they stopped somewhere (gas station, restaurant, etc) and other customers might have observed something odd or nothing at all? That attorney seems to be grasping at straws. Perhaps he realizes that he, too, fell for her "story."

 

[pappa rob]

Hoovler said authorities believe "there are people out there who may know more" about the day Viafore died, or circumstances of the couple's relationship. The police investigation is ongoing, and the DA's Office is asking anyone with information to come forward.

Portale said that opens the door for anyone seeking to "cash in" on their "15 minutes of fame," and he doesn't "think it's the way you should be prosecuting cases.

"Why doesn't the district attorney put an ad in the paper?" Portale added sarcastically.

From: http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...wald-tampered-viafores-kayak-paddle/27991105/

Really? Not that I follow a lot of criminal cases, but I have seen this done before. How else are the investigators supposed to get word out that they are looking for witnesses--perhaps boaters that may have been out there with binoculars, birdwatchers at Plum Point (or anywhere along the Hudson in the area) with binoculars/scopes/cameras, and other people who may not stay up to date with the news and may not be aware that they observed something important before or after the crime? After all, the boaters from Cornwall Yacht Club on their way to help saw her intentionally enter the water. Maybe they stopped somewhere (gas station, restaurant, etc) and other customers might have observed something odd or nothing at all? That attorney seems to be grasping at straws. Perhaps he realizes that he, too, fell for her "story."

BBM I think that the attorney's falling for his own "story" Isn't that why they're called liar's, whoops I mean lawyers.

 

[wfgodot]

BBM I think that the attorney's falling for his own "story" Isn't that why they're called liar's, whoops I mean lawyers.

Are you referring to the prosecution or the defense.

 

[silly1]

Leaving post-tragedy conjecture aside for a bit -- it sounds like the Hudson did it.

I have a feeling that the autopsy is going to reveal that the COD will be drowning. BUT that doesn't mean that she didn't deliberately set the whole thing into motion.

 

[BunnyHop]

The State has no reason to lay its case-in-chief out for the media in advance of the trial. As we've already witnessed prior to the presser announcing the positive ID of the victim and the formal indictment, the DA appears to be playing this close to the vest.

Perhaps it's best (to prevent any accusation of jury pool contamination)

I have a feeling there is plenty we don't know.

I agree.