OH OH - Amy Mihaljevic, 10, Bay Village, 27 Oct 1989

[jgfitzge]

Yes, seems likely he wasn't local to BV, though he may have been from a nearby community. Most of the witnesses at the BV shopping center that day would have been other middle or high school kids, maybe a few adults. They would have recognized a local teacher, neighbor, someone's parent, etc. It's possible, though, it was someone from a nearby community. LE thought so, too, as many of their suspects were from close by. I'm assuming the person must have stalked Amy some time prior to know her schedule, which days her mom worked, what hours, etc. So, they would have likely lived somewhat nearby. You also have to wonder about a perp who was ayoung-ish to middle aged male who had free time weekdays mid to late afternoon.

There were a couple of my friends in BV back then who told me they called in solid leads to the toll free number, but never heard back from LE. I still wonder about that. One was a very clear, solid lead with a vehicle description.

Hi, good posting, I recently began to follow this case and to keep myself sane I try to push away the chatter and focus on a few areas that I feel are key. One you mentioned is the time of these calls and the other is the record of the calls themselves. So, you are also seeing the time of the calls is important. Based on the time of the calls and the general description of the perp he does not sound like he is in an established, white collar occupation where you need to be in an office each day. 1989 was pre-telle-commute days in the work force. He made these calls with the expectation that if the young girl took the bait he could be able to execute the snatching within a day or so. I don't remember any of the other call recipients saying there was background noises or it was hard to hear him. So, I am thinking landline, a private place to patiently make these calls...I wonder if this person worked an overnight white collar job? More specifically, back in the late 80's/early 90's I recall many people working IT/Data Storage jobs at odd hours, Putnam, Ec2, etc..I think the perp's age (late 20s/early 30s) fit right into this bracket....just a thought.

Now the phone records...in our are we had New England Telephone back in 89 I remember you could request an itemized bill. However, I believe this itemization was only for out of area calls?? If it was local, no itemization. Could they have pulled the Luds back in 89? Was it from the same # or different #s? I am assuming the perp was on the phone for at least a minute? If anyone knows this technology better, please chime in...

 

[Doghairrules]

For any of you who watched all three parts of the special, did they give the results of testing into the phone call that supposedly came from Amy that her parents both thought was her? It was probably on there but somehow I missed it. Tia.

 

[Kell1]

For any of you who watched all three parts of the special, did they give the results of testing into the phone call that supposedly came from Amy that her parents both thought was her? It was probably on there but somehow I missed it. Tia.

FBI found thr call was a hoax made by a well known mentally ill woman who had done this several times before with several other well known cases

 

[Betty P]

For any of you who watched all three parts of the special, did they give the results of testing into the phone call that supposedly came from Amy that her parents both thought was her? It was probably on there but somehow I missed it. Tia.

I'm going to try to skim through the episodes today and take some notes. IIRC, they didn't give details about info they had on the phone calls. BV police may know something, but are keeping it confidential.

Part 1: Missing | The Lake Erie Murders

From the article accompanying the ID docu at the link above:

Investigators also determined that, probably in order maintain control and avoid panicking Amy during the 50-minute drive, the kidnapper had allowed Amy to call her mother from a pay phone.

Assume LE knows some details about that phone call, but aren't revealing more than that it was a payphone.

What You Need To Know About Amy Mihaljevic's 1989 Murder

Also, here's a link to a series of podcasts about the murder from one of the journalists interviewed in the ID series about Amy

Home

 

[Betty P]

Hi, good posting, I recently began to follow this case and to keep myself sane I try to push away the chatter and focus on a few areas that I feel are key. One you mentioned is the time of these calls and the other is the record of the calls themselves. So, you are also seeing the time of the calls is important. Based on the time of the calls and the general description of the perp he does not sound like he is in an established, white collar occupation where you need to be in an office each day. 1989 was pre-telle-commute days in the work force. He made these calls with the expectation that if the young girl took the bait he could be able to execute the snatching within a day or so. I don't remember any of the other call recipients saying there was background noises or it was hard to hear him. So, I am thinking landline, a private place to patiently make these calls...I wonder if this person worked an overnight white collar job? More specifically, back in the late 80's/early 90's I recall many people working IT/Data Storage jobs at odd hours, Putnam, Ec2, etc..I think the perp's age (late 20s/early 30s) fit right into this bracket....just a thought.

Now the phone records...in our are we had New England Telephone back in 89 I remember you could request an itemized bill. However, I believe this itemization was only for out of area calls?? If it was local, no itemization. Could they have pulled the Luds back in 89? Was it from the same # or different #s? I am assuming the perp was on the phone for at least a minute? If anyone knows this technology better, please chime in...

I was just listening to the recent podcast series called "Who Killed Amy Mihaljevic?" by Bill Huffman. In Episode 5, he and James Renner discuss the telephone calls. Huffman mentions that police weren't able to trace the call to Amy's home. Back then, they could only retrieve data on long distance calls, so it's assumed that the call came from a local phone.

The discussion about the phone call begins around 22:49.

Who Killed Amy Mihaljevic? Episode 5- The Suspects, Now Available for Download on all podcast platforms

Huffman and Renner also speculate about whether the call was made from a pay phone, which were still around back then. Perhaps he called from Bay Plaza or somewhere nearby. They also discuss whether the killer rehearsed the kidnapping in advance, JMO very likely.

The podcast series is pretty good for having a lot of previously unknown details. I haven't finished it yet, but would recommend it to anyone who has the time.

 

[Betty P]

I've pretty much listened to most of the podcasts and they're very good. Suggest anyone interested in this case listen to them. One of the last podcasts has discussions with retired FBI agent Phil Torsney who emphasized that the case needs new national coverage. He thinks its possible Amy's killer was involved in other abductions and/or murders of young children elsewhere in the US. One of the possible suspects, who has been named in the news media, lived in southern California during the early '70s. There's some speculation in one of the podcast episodes that this suspect could have been involved in the murder of Linda O'Keefe in 1973.

Who Killed Linda O'Keefe? Newport Beach Police Retell Her Story
Newport Beach Police on Twitter


The possible suspect in Amy's murder was working at Disneyland at that time, about 20 miles away. A big theory has been that Amy's killer didn't live in Bay Village, but traveled there from a nearby community, most likely from the west or south. Like the GSK, he may have plotted to travel to nearby areas to commit his crimes to keep suspicion away from his "home turf" where he lived and worked.

I'm not sure if a link to Linda O'Keefe's murder a strong possibility, but FBI Agent Torsney makes a good point about getting national coverage for this cold case to encourage LE to look at old cases and see if they appear similar to Amy Mihaljevic's abduction and murder.

The podcast episodes also discussed possible ways the killer could have been linked to Amy's family, given they knew who her parents were, their home phone number, work hours and family schedules, etc. Some of that information could have been gained from stalking the victim and her family, watching to see when kids got home from school, when mom returned from work. But Bay Village LE probably had a strong theory about that: the local Bay Village directory. At the time of Amy's abduction, the city used to publish a yearly local phone and address directory, a phone book that included names, address, phone numbers. Residents would fill out a form for their listing. It included a space to list the names of their children and most parents included that information. These directories were mailed to residents and were available at the local library, city hall, etc.

The year after Amy's murder, LE asked that the city no longer include the names of children in the phone directory, stating they thought it was unsafe for kids. Seems LE may have believed Amy's killer got information about her phone number, parents names, etc. from the city directory, information they wouldn't have gotten from the Lake Erie Nature & Science Center registration book. Just a theory.

 

[Kell1]

Long post alert sorry :

In Most child abduction homicides the offender has at least a rudimentary history of sexual offenses against children, though until the mid 90's many of these cases went unreported, the offender was simply allowed to leave.


So though its highly likely that the individual responsible for other crimes against children, its also possible (likely) that it may have not been reported to the police, making them harder to track

These are things we usually find out post arrest, or if the indivual agrees to speak during an interview .

Child killers who abduct are the most likely to 1) Re-offend 2) Become a serial offender 3) Keep the same personal aspects of MO (External factors may change) note I did not say "signature" but MO.

Most child victims that were abducted and murdered, were done so by strangers, and were victims of opportunity. About 98% of these are committed by Males where the mean average age of the offender 27 years old but ranges from 24-37.


Around half are usually employed in blue collar type occupations, (Construction was the #1 occupation) and may be unemployed at the time of the abduction


Most live alone or with parents , very few are married or even in any form of relationship , the majority of them experiece sexual problems

These individuals fall into the a a group many call "Social Marginals", they tend to be known oddballs, would be classified as "weird" loners, with few friends , a history (albeit usually short) of failed relationships. In general people would feel uncomfortable around them, theyre often described as "odd"

They may have been (and usually have been ) accused of and or convicted of sexual contact with children before

In these "opportunity grabs" we will sometimes see something that triggers the event, "Stressor" those stressors will usually be , work or legal, sometimes issues between intimates . But weve come to find this isnt always true , though it does happen, these individuals tend to be more like opportunistic killers in waiting. Its opportunity coupled with stress and perversion, that tend to fuel this type of abduction (Sociopathic)

The fact that Amy's killer actively sought out a victim lends itself more toward psychopathic behavior . this wasnt so much a killer in waiting as it was a higher fixated individual who for whatever reason chose a ruse to lure a child from their own residence.

The most common form of killing was strangulation followed by stabbing or slashing, manual strangulation is most often seen in opportunistic abductions as one can imagine, these cases, are due to opportunity.

The body dump site in such cases, is usually someplace to conceal the victims, body though in some cases there is no concern whether the victim is found or not .

Its very rare the body is left somewhere they will be found or displayed to ensure discovery.

About a quarter of offenders leave town immediately after , however close to quarter , of those also return to the body dump site befoe the body is discovered (Which it is important to note anyone seen in that area any time between tha abduction and the discovery of the body)

About 56% of those that do return to the dump site do so withing 3-5 days after the body is initially dumped .

In a bout a 3rd of these cases the suspect has come into contact with police in some form during the investigation, however not necessarily as a suspect

In 74% of cases, the suspect was named within 1 week

Most likely her killer was interviewed in this case, Im fairly certain someone somewhere knows whos responsible as they may condife in someone post offense

The ideal suspect in this case would be between 27-34 years old, white male most likely living alone or with parents, because I feel the child was taken somewhere and held , plus the appearent nature of how she died, which wouldve guaranteed transfer of evidence, I feel he most likely lived alone, and wherever that was is where Amy was killed.

He would most likely unemployed, or underemployed at the time of the abduction, he would be known to be odd, few friends if any, would not be in a relationship of any intimate meaning.

He would almost certainly have issues with children hin his past, usually of a sexual nature though these may have not been reported to the police.

Because of the sparse nature of the preceeding calls, (months apart) I dont beleive thre was any 1 triggering event immediately prior to her abduction though there certainly couldve been. Primarily a recurring issue precceding each of these calls (laid off due to contract work etc..)

Recovery sites are usually very important , because its the place where they stand the greatest chance to be caught disposing of the body, therefore most of them are very familiar with the places they leave their victime , He wouldve been familiar with the recovery site, knew it was a place he could get rid of her body without being seen.

Post offensive behavior would be an unusual interest in the case, sudden appearance changes, especially if theres a composite, sudden unexplained re-location, "shedding" of evidence (Ex getting rid of clothing or objects in their possession) primarily objects that are out of place and noone around the indvidual knows of their oigin .

There may be an increase in use of intoxicants, , alcohol or drugs, or even tobacco.

Sudden unexplained illness, and or suicide attempts arent uncommon either.

They do on occasion inject themselves into the investigation, but its also not uncommon for other deviant types to do the same to try to be part of something surrounding something with the gravity of a missing child investigation .

My feeling is that this individual stayed in the area until her body as found he almost certainly re-visited her body most likely within the 1st 2 weeks of placing her there.

Once the "heat" of the investigation was over, I beleive he most likely left the area. Its possible there were further crimes, especially of lesser extent than abduction/murder, this does NOT however preclude it from happening , and makes this individual extremely dangerous and likely to though through diffent means (MO)


What you must understand about MO, is that it is a crime scene dynamic (IE can and does change) therfore the offender most likely stopped with the phonecalls and he adopted other ways of procuring victims this type however, will not be beyond an opportunity grab if they are desperate enough and the opportunity presents itself.

Though in subsequent crimes they will often use the same means to kill their victims, slashing/stabing however is the 2nd most common means used by abduction killers (before we try to tie in cases like Amber Hagerman etc..)

Though killers do take trophies which is more a trait of psychopathy in murder cases, these individuals will sometimes only keep those for a period of time till they lost their "luster" if you will, or they feel it draws suspicion. Then they will discard them somewhere

Hopefully this program stirs new leads and eventually this case can be closed

 

[jaejae]

Long post alert sorry :

In Most child abduction homicides the offender has at least a rudimentary history of sexual offenses against children, though until the mid 90's many of these cases went unreported, the offender was simply allowed to leave.


So though its highly likely that the individual responsible for other crimes against children, its also possible (likely) that it may have not been reported to the police, making them harder to track

These are things we usually find out post arrest, or if the indivual agrees to speak during an interview .

Child killers who abduct are the most likely to 1) Re-offend 2) Become a serial offender 3) Keep the same personal aspects of MO (External factors may change) note I did not say "signature" but MO.

Most child victims that were abducted and murdered, were done so by strangers, and were victims of opportunity. About 98% of these are committed by Males where the mean average age of the offender 27 years old but ranges from 24-37.


Around half are usually employed in blue collar type occupations, (Construction was the #1 occupation) and may be unemployed at the time of the abduction


Most live alone or with parents , very few are married or even in any form of relationship , the majority of them experiece sexual problems

These individuals fall into the a a group many call "Social Marginals", they tend to be known oddballs, would be classified as "weird" loners, with few friends , a history (albeit usually short) of failed relationships. In general people would feel uncomfortable around them, theyre often described as "odd"

They may have been (and usually have been ) accused of and or convicted of sexual contact with children before

In these "opportunity grabs" we will sometimes see something that triggers the event, "Stressor" those stressors will usually be , work or legal, sometimes issues between intimates . But weve come to find this isnt always true , though it does happen, these individuals tend to be more like opportunistic killers in waiting. Its opportunity coupled with stress and perversion, that tend to fuel this type of abduction (Sociopathic)

The fact that Amy's killer actively sought out a victim lends itself more toward psychopathic behavior . this wasnt so much a killer in waiting as it was a higher fixated individual who for whatever reason chose a ruse to lure a child from their own residence.

The most common form of killing was strangulation followed by stabbing or slashing, manual strangulation is most often seen in opportunistic abductions as one can imagine, these cases, are due to opportunity.

The body dump site in such cases, is usually someplace to conceal the victims, body though in some cases there is no concern whether the victim is found or not .

Its very rare the body is left somewhere they will be found or displayed to ensure discovery.

About a quarter of offenders leave town immediately after , however close to quarter , of those also return to the body dump site befoe the body is discovered (Which it is important to note anyone seen in that area any time between tha abduction and the discovery of the body)

About 56% of those that do return to the dump site do so withing 3-5 days after the body is initially dumped .

In a bout a 3rd of these cases the suspect has come into contact with police in some form during the investigation, however not necessarily as a suspect

In 74% of cases, the suspect was named within 1 week

Most likely her killer was interviewed in this case, Im fairly certain someone somewhere knows whos responsible as they may condife in someone post offense

The ideal suspect in this case would be between 27-34 years old, white male most likely living alone or with parents, because I feel the child was taken somewhere and held , plus the appearent nature of how she died, which wouldve guaranteed transfer of evidence, I feel he most likely lived alone, and wherever that was is where Amy was killed.

He would most likely unemployed, or underemployed at the time of the abduction, he would be known to be odd, few friends if any, would not be in a relationship of any intimate meaning.

He would almost certainly have issues with children hin his past, usually of a sexual nature though these may have not been reported to the police.

Because of the sparse nature of the preceeding calls, (months apart) I dont beleive thre was any 1 triggering event immediately prior to her abduction though there certainly couldve been. Primarily a recurring issue precceding each of these calls (laid off due to contract work etc..)

Recovery sites are usually very important , because its the place where they stand the greatest chance to be caught disposing of the body, therefore most of them are very familiar with the places they leave their victime , He wouldve been familiar with the recovery site, knew it was a place he could get rid of her body without being seen.

Post offensive behavior would be an unusual interest in the case, sudden appearance changes, especially if theres a composite, sudden unexplained re-location, "shedding" of evidence (Ex getting rid of clothing or objects in their possession) primarily objects that are out of place and noone around the indvidual knows of their oigin .

There may be an increase in use of intoxicants, , alcohol or drugs, or even tobacco.

Sudden unexplained illness, and or suicide attempts arent uncommon either.

They do on occasion inject themselves into the investigation, but its also not uncommon for other deviant types to do the same to try to be part of something surrounding something with the gravity of a missing child investigation .

My feeling is that this individual stayed in the area until her body as found he almost certainly re-visited her body most likely within the 1st 2 weeks of placing her there.

Once the "heat" of the investigation was over, I beleive he most likely left the area. Its possible there were further crimes, especially of lesser extent than abduction/murder, this does NOT however preclude it from happening , and makes this individual extremely dangerous and likely to though through diffent means (MO)


What you must understand about MO, is that it is a crime scene dynamic (IE can and does change) therfore the offender most likely stopped with the phonecalls and he adopted other ways of procuring victims this type however, will not be beyond an opportunity grab if they are desperate enough and the opportunity presents itself.

Though in subsequent crimes they will often use the same means to kill their victims, slashing/stabing however is the 2nd most common means used by abduction killers (before we try to tie in cases like Amber Hagerman etc..)

Though killers do take trophies which is more a trait of psychopathy in murder cases, these individuals will sometimes only keep those for a period of time till they lost their "luster" if you will, or they feel it draws suspicion. Then they will discard them somewhere

Hopefully this program stirs new leads and eventually this case can be closed

Good posts and points. I used to think after reading posts by James Renner and others that this case might be related to that of April Tinsley. A sick sense of humour is present in both crimes. Of course a man has just please guilty in the April Tinsley case.

 

[Kell1]

Good posts and points. I used to think after reading posts by James Renner and others that this case might be related to that of April Tinsley. A sick sense of humour is present in both crimes. Of course a man has just please guilty in the April Tinsley case.

I dont really see a sick sense of humor, if she was displayed, or something was drawn or written n the body (it may have been, but I beleive her remains were almost skeletal ) if there was evidence of taunting police, something along those lines etc..then maybe

Id be willing to bet, this one was VERY scared after, hes been scared of everything his whole life , he doesnt have the stones to taunt anyone.

 

[jaejae]

I dont really see a sick sense of humor, if she was displayed, or something was drawn or written n the body (it may have been, but I beleive her remains were almost skeletal ) if there was evidence of taunting police, something along those lines etc..then maybe

Id be willing to bet, this one was VERY scared after, hes been scared of everything his whole life , he doesnt have the stones to taunt anyone.

Thanks for the post. Not being funny but to me the fact he kidnapped a child on the ruse of buying a present for her Mum is evidence of a sick sense of humour. In that way there may be some connection.

 

[Kell1]

Thanks for the post. Not being funny but to me the fact he kidnapped a child on the ruse of buying a present for her Mum is evidence of a sick sense of humour. In that way there may be some connection.

Not so much a sense of humor as he "Safest/Surest" method to procure a victim, this is how they operate from their position of "safety" .

The calls are MO, hes not terrorozing them, but a lot of thought went into seeking out victims via unregistered phone.

If there were another way he felt he could, he wouldve done it .

Needless to say hes a either way

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I dont really see a sick sense of humor, if she was displayed, or something was drawn or written n the body (it may have been, but I beleive her remains were almost skeletal ) if there was evidence of taunting police, something along those lines etc..then maybe

Id be willing to bet, this one was VERY scared after, hes been scared of everything his whole life , he doesnt have the stones to taunt anyone.

I don't know if I really agree he was scared. He boldly, in broad daylight, with witnesses all around, took this child. That one thing makes me think perhaps he was NOT local either. I think he was local in the sense of from another suburb or from Ashland; but not Rocky River/bay Village area where he may be recognized.

 

[Kell1]

I don't know if I really agree he was scared. He boldly, in broad daylight, with witnesses all around, took this child. That one thing makes me think perhaps he was NOT local either. I think he was local in the sense of from another suburb or from Ashland; but not Rocky River/bay Village area where he may be recognized.

Not sure id call him "bold" but

Its high risk in that he met his victim in public, she was a low risk victim he took some risk in commission of the crime, However .... when you consider that was probably the only way he was going to get his victim, the image changes a bit .

This type is not going to break into a house in the middle of the night and kidnap one, hes not going to grab one off the street and risk making a scene, though that may not be out of the realm of possibility following this offense if all other factrs fell into place

The only real risk he took was to be seen in public as low key as he could and still walk away with a victim. If an adult approached him he would most likely just walk away from her , hes not going to risk a confrontation

I'll even say that I feel confident that IF another child was standing in close proximty with Amy he most likely wouldnt have even approached her .

These types arent the hard tough killers many think they are, eventhough the cimes are certainly horrifying, in rare cases you may get a hardened criminal sociopath type, but most are usually pathetic, loners.

Id be willing to bet he was very nervous post offense, probably followed it VERY closely, to the point that people around him may have even had suspicions bout him.

Probably lived in the area or near by, he isnt going to abduct a child and drive too far before she starts to panic , its too high risk even at gunpoint theres no guarantee shes not going to raise a sceene, Statistics state that the victim is usually transported greater than 1 mile from the abduction site usually between 1.5 and 12 miles at the higher end of the spectrum

Especially after being seen with someone. Statistics also back this in most child abduction murders the offender is in the area for legitimate reasons (Work or resides) though this is more indicative of offenders who grab kids off the streets it still applies.

He has to get that victim somewhere out of sight , he stops to have her call her mother beause he knows her brother is going to be alarmed, he probably asked her if anyone was expecting her at home.

This in and of itself has a risk, because having the victim call to reassure her mother may (probably did) raise alarm with the victim, now you have a victim that may draw attention because shes scared .

Once he buys time, he now needs to get her out of sight , somewhere where he can do what he intends to do which in most cases is sexually motivated, with murder secondary to eliminate identification.

Once he does that he now has to get rid of the body, so hell lmost certainly go somewhere he knows is desolate enough that he can do that and leave.

Shes not dumped on the road, shes not displayed, shes hidden for the most part.

Having seen these cases before I think the FBI is not far off on what they are looking for at all.

Theres some outstanding reports on Child Abduction homicide that were done a few years ago, by the Washington State Attorney generals office .

Should be required reading for all involved in missing persons cases IMO

 

[Betty P]

Not sure id call him "bold" but

Its high risk in that he met his victim in public, she was a low risk victim he took some risk in commission of the crime, However .... when you consider that was probably the only way he was going to get his victim, the image changes a bit .

This type is not going to break into a house in the middle of the night and kidnap one, hes not going to grab one off the street and risk making a scene, though that may not be out of the realm of possibility following this offense if all other factrs fell into place

The only real risk he took was to be seen in public as low key as he could and still walk away with a victim. If an adult approached him he would most likely just walk away from her , hes not going to risk a confrontation

I'll even say that I feel confident that IF another child was standing in close proximty with Amy he most likely wouldnt have even approached her .

These types arent the hard tough killers many think they are, eventhough the cimes are certainly horrifying, in rare cases you may get a hardened criminal sociopath type, but most are usually pathetic, loners.

Id be willing to bet he was very nervous post offense, probably followed it VERY closely, to the point that people around him may have even had suspicions bout him.

Probably lived in the area or near by, he isnt going to abduct a child and drive too far before she starts to panic , its too high risk even at gunpoint theres no guarantee shes not going to raise a sceene, Statistics state that the victim is usually transported greater than 1 mile from the abduction site usually between 1.5 and 12 miles at the higher end of the spectrum

Especially after being seen with someone. Statistics also back this in most child abduction murders the offender is in the area for legitimate reasons (Work or resides) though this is more indicative of offenders who grab kids off the streets it still applies.

He has to get that victim somewhere out of sight , he stops to have her call her mother beause he knows her brother is going to be alarmed, he probably asked her if anyone was expecting her at home.

This in and of itself has a risk, because having the victim call to reassure her mother may (probably did) raise alarm with the victim, now you have a victim that may draw attention because shes scared .

Once he buys time, he now needs to get her out of sight , somewhere where he can do what he intends to do which in most cases is sexually motivated, with murder secondary to eliminate identification.

Once he does that he now has to get rid of the body, so hell lmost certainly go somewhere he knows is desolate enough that he can do that and leave.

Shes not dumped on the road, shes not displayed, shes hidden for the most part.

Having seen these cases before I think the FBI is not far off on what they are looking for at all.

Theres some outstanding reports on Child Abduction homicide that were done a few years ago, by the Washington State Attorney generals office .

Should be required reading for all involved in missing persons cases IMO

Excellent! Thanks so much for this, Kell1! You put a lot of work into this. I'm going to check out the Washington AG office reports.

Your description really fits a few of the alleged "suspects" that have been looked at over the years.

Did you get a chance to look at the Investigation Discover episodes on Amy's case? They mention a few of the ones they considered at first, some were ruled out.

You're point about the actual killing taking place not too far away is interesting. Many speculated that he actually drove Amy out to a location (home, etc.) that was near the place where he dumped her body. I've read some discussion about how he might have kept her calm for the long drive (est 50 minutes to 1 hr.) Then again, is it possible she was knocked unconscious to keep her quiet.

Also good that you feel the killer may have told someone about it. Hope that person is still alive.

Do you see a possible match to some of they top suspects discussed over the years? There's one that does match very well.

Thanks, again! Let me read this a couple more times then I'll come back with more questions.

 

[jaejae]

Not so much a sense of humor as he "Safest/Surest" method to procure a victim, this is how they operate from their position of "safety" .

The calls are MO, hes not terrorozing them, but a lot of thought went into seeking out victims via unregistered phone.

If there were another way he felt he could, he wouldve done it .

Needless to say hes a either way

You might be right and I hope you catch him. I think he chose to use this ruse because he enjoyed it and it gave him a buzz. I think he found it funny. I will leave it now as I am not just looking to have the last word as such. Thanks

 

[Kell1]

You might be right and I hope you catch him. I think he chose to use this ruse because he enjoyed it and it gave him a buzz. I think he found it funny. I will leave it now as I am not just looking to have the last word as such. Thanks

No not at all, I appreciate your opinion, thats what this forum is for to hash out new angles etc.. Im not refuting what you say, as much as giving "the other side" if you will

Its good if people come at cases from all angles, as long as they keep an open mind and NOT fall into a groove with it.

When people see these cases, hey automatically think this "Creature" must be lurking somewhere waiting to kill children, he must be 9 foot tall with fangs and claws , then when they are apprehended ..... youre like THAT is a killer (for Ex John Couey, raped and murdered Jessica Lunsford..... looked like Mr Noodle from Sesame street)

 

[Kell1]

Excellent! Thanks so much for this, Kell1! You put a lot of work into this. I'm going to check out the Washington AG office reports.

Your description really fits a few of the alleged "suspects" that have been looked at over the years.

Did you get a chance to look at the Investigation Discover episodes on Amy's case? They mention a few of the ones they considered at first, some were ruled out.

You're point about the actual killing taking place not too far away is interesting. Many speculated that he actually drove Amy out to a location (home, etc.) that was near the place where he dumped her body. I've read some discussion about how he might have kept her calm for the long drive (est 50 minutes to 1 hr.) Then again, is it possible she was knocked unconscious to keep her quiet.

Also good that you feel the killer may have told someone about it. Hope that person is still alive.

Do you see a possible match to some of they top suspects discussed over the years? There's one that does match very well.

Thanks, again! Let me read this a couple more times then I'll come back with more questions.

I did see all 3 parts,

The thing with this case is theres a few good matches, like the police the guy who injected himself into the investigation then committed suicide , wouldve been interesting, however they are saying theres no evidentiary link to him.

Remember the police most likely aready have his name, and he may have been interviewed, though for some reason he slipped under the radar

But again, something with the gravity of a missing child is like a fire to arsonists.. even if they are not responsible for it, theyll gladly come be around it , same thing with these deviant types .

The individual Mr. Renner identified, is very interesting as well, he fits the socio demographic, in part, but hes employed as a teacher, which is somewhat out of the ordinary for these types. It doesnt exclude him from being one, but it would definitely be a change from the majority.

He would be the right age range, this crime shows some at least some planning, which would lead me to beleive he was at the higher age range of the bracket

He has an interesting story, he fits the composite as well, however you have to remember that even with all of the background he dug up on him, unless this is documented its all speculative at this point, IE nothing has been verified that i have read . Its reports from students, and former collegues, the only disciplinary issue I saw was him writing letters to a male student .

But again as Ive said before an undocumented history doesnt mean t doesnt exist, MANY times these guys just werent caught or were let go with a slap on the wrist.

Gender of the victim however may not be as important in this case. Usually the younger the victim preference of the offender the less important the acual gender of the victim is

I know thats weird, but were talking about weird people to begin with...

Appearance is what matters to them, for ex if an offender has a thing for 5 year old boys, hell be fine with a 10 yo (sometimes boy or girl) that maybe looks like a 5 yo .

Pre-pubescent boys and girls dont look that much different at that age .

As for transporting the victim, theres no guarantee youre going to knock someone out , and if you dont, and lets say you draw blood now you have a bloody scared kid in your car

I feel he had to get her out of there and fast he may have used a highway, but I dont think he took her too far .

Im pretty sure he kept up with the ruse until he got her to his place , something along the lines of "i have to go get my wallet..etc.. or something like that" , to quell the suspicions, Amy may've had following the phone call to her mom.

Until the sexul assault took place he probably didnt let his intentions be known. They beleive she was held somewhere and even fed, which in and of itself is rare .

Stabbing and cutting are guaranteed to transfer evidence, hes not going to risk being seen outside with the victim, so i feel he probably killed her in his home, cleaned up and then went somewhere he knew well to dump her body.

 

[Ibiz]

I haven't read about this case, but one thing I think, that gets over looked in cases like this: is the fact that someone in the child's peer group could be responsible.

Here's an example: https://metro-co-uk.cdn.ampproject....-killer-hid-body-8-year-old-girl-bed-7316091/

 

[Kell1]

I haven't read about this case, but one thing I think, that gets over looked in cases like this: is the fact that someone in the child's peer group could be responsible.

Here's an example: https://metro-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/metro.co.uk/2018/02/15/harrowing-story-joshua-phillips-teen-killer-hid-body-8-year-old-girl-bed-7316091/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/15/harrowing-story-joshua-phillips-teen-killer-hid-body-8-year-old-girl-bed-7316091/

good point, but I wouldn't tend to think this was the issue in this cas

My point of contention would be that the body was transported both from the initial contact site and to the recovery site unless they had a parent perhaps help cover up the crime,

plus she was seen with an unknown adult male

 

[Betty P]

But again, something with the gravity of a missing child is like a fire to arsonists.. even if they are not responsible for it, theyll gladly come be around it , same thing with these deviant types .

That's disturbing. Always knew the killer might come around and get involved, but not that these crimes attract all the other creeps as well. As you may know, something similar happened here at WS recently - a member who followed a child sex murder case here was arrested for child *advertiser censored*. Creepy.

In Amy's case, the "teacher" suspect looks so strong, but there are still one or two things about him that may not fit.

In the years after her murder, the consensus (rumored to have been LE's) was the person who later committed suicide. As you say, they apparently ruled him out.

Do you think he has killed again? Should we be looking for other similar crimes, possibly in another area?

Here's a more recent, local case that's similar. This person is too young to be the suspect and he didn't kill his victim, but the personal and geographic profile are very similar - young guy in his 20's who lived in a town west of Cleveland who drove into W. Cleveland to stalk, kidnap, etc.

Lorain man indicted in rape, kidnapping case in Cleveland, attempted abduction in Elyria

He had also attempted to abduct a young girl from her home in Elyria, OH. IIRC in the news media at the time there were other reports of similar attempts in communities just south of BV. This guy did his work at night. Amy's killer worked during the day, maybe worked unsupervised or was unemployed, allowing him to work during the day.

Here's a map showing some of the communities west of BV, including Amherst, where the teacher suspect in Amy's case had recently begun working. The area where her body was left is south.

Google Maps