GUILTY OH - Barb Williams for child abuse, Hancock County, 2014

[Linda7NJ]

Children live what they learn.
and Children become adults carrying traumatic experiences...






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[Synaptic Cliff]

I'm always one for seeing the complexity and gray areas of an issue. Really. However, this case does not seem to leave much room for interpretation. An adult (esp a teacher.. But really, any adult) is expected to be in control of her behavior. At all times. In a professional situation this is even more imperative. A six year old boy.. Well, he may not always have the skills to control his emotional outbreaks. The fact is: There is nothing he could have done that would excuse her abusive behavior. It is ALWAYS wrong for a teacher to assault a child like that. Always. Stop blaming the little boy. It is the adult who is responsible for controlling her behavior. Every time. He is not responsible.

 

[blue22]

I think there is a huge difference between hearsay and facts.


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Yes, there is. It's all hearsay. The ONLY information I'm seeing about this boy, is coming from people who say they know the teacher, or people who knows someone who knows the boy, or people who have heard things about the boy.

None of which are facts, and none of which can be trusted.

NOT that it matters, because her actions are all that matters.

 

[MyBelle]

I would guess by your responses you've been systematically desensitized to it.
Every time I see it, I'm horrified.
I can't even watch Americas Funniest Videos because I can not get used to or find anything at all funny watching other people get hurt or almost kill themselves. I gasped through the entire show.

Maybe there is something wrong with me??



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Heck no, sister!! You are the first person--besides me--who I have ever heard admit that you can not watch AFV because of the videos of people getting hurt. I've never understood how anyone could find those videos funny or think kids should be imitating them.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Heck no, sister!! You are the first person--besides me--who I have ever heard admit that you can not watch AFV because of the videos of people getting hurt. I've never understood how anyone could find those videos funny or think kids should be imitating them.

Apparently, that's now considered family television and passes as entertainment...


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[Salem]

I do understand that there are people who see this like you do - [modsnip]

The superintendent, the principal, and the community need other facts and have relied on other facts than what are in this video. I'm with them. I always welcome more information and don't limit myself to a photo or a very short video to make a decision about whether someone should go to jail.

I do, however, agree that BW should resign.

You need to link these other facts. So far all I have seen are some rumors under some MSM articles. Do you have valid links? If not, this discussion ends here. The child is a victim and victim bashing is not allowed.

Salem

 

[screecher]

Alrighty. I initially 'quoted' many, many posts.

Then I realized (black and white, no gray), what Barb Williams was recorded doing was BAD. Yes, BAD. And CRIMINAL. Period.

[modsnip]

Simply put,Barb Williams is a perpetrator of small children who rubs her the wrong the way.

 

[Constance]

You have been damaged by repeatedly witnessing the systematic psychological, physical and emotional abuse of children. I don't think you even realize it. You are normalizing and excusing child abuse. You turn the other way when you see it. You're not horrified.
I mean this with all due respect. Please don't think this is a personal attack, it isn't meant to be.
There is indeed a better way. We as a society MUST get there. It's important.
If you look at other countries statistics where spanking has been outlawed...look at their crime rates compared to ours. The proof is there.



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JMO: I'm convinced we are producing damaged people by treating children as the enemy of adults, as wild animals needing tamed, as less than human. Then the children grow up & do it all over again. The cycle has to be stopped.

OT but not really: I'd like to start a concentrated effort to spread a message of non-violence against children. I see these graphics going around on facebook extolling physical discipline as if it were the one & only solution for all misbehavior and just cringe thinking of all the young people who get their parenting advice from social media and of all the stories here. Is anyone here interested in making, trading & sharing (on social media) some nice graphics to try to counter some of the negativity? I'm thinking short, cutesy slogans in cutesy fonts -- those seem to do well on facebook. I'm sorry for the slight veer off course but this story has inspired me to be proactive on this issue.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Let's, for the sake of argument, this child behaved like the spawn of satan himself. He bit, kicked and spat on every child in that classroom, all year long. His victims parents couldn't stand him. They were tired of their children coming home every day injured, crying and bruised. their parents ALLOWED it and SENT their children back for more.

It doesn't matter in the least to me.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with this teachers actions.

Their parents should have been more proactive and protected their own.

Still not a single shred of grey am I seeing.

All IMO.


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There is no gray her. A teacher assaulted a 40 lbs child. Not a teen who was attacking her, There I could see gray.
HERE it is black and white. It infuriates me to see people trying to back up this lunatics behavior. I wonder how people would feel if it happened to their child or grandchild.

 

[blue22]

There is no gray her. A teacher assaulted a 40 lbs child. Not a teen who was attacking her, There I could see gray.
HERE it is black and white. It infuriates me to see people trying to back up this lunatics behavior. I wonder how people would feel if it happened to their child or grandchild.

Yep. A teacher putting their hands on a kindergartner in a violent manner...can ONLY be black and white.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The sheriff IS working with the family. It was in the articles.

And yes, I am worried about long term repercussions for this child having this hashed out in public. I've seen enough cases where parents make a case for their child and take their child to the media, and the town turns against them while strangers fight for them.

I very strongly sense this is exactly what will happen to this child. He will be a media hero but his town will treat him like a pariah.

I guess we'll see. Yes, I'm more worried about the future of this media circus than I am about that one little incident of teacher anger.

Because this is like a deja vu for the 100th time with a case like this that I've seen. The public doesn't seem to understand the damage they inflict in cases like this. The media understands it, but they don't care. Smells like money.

When you have a case like this with a child, there is no call to parade them in front of the cameras although it feels good and feels like revenge at the moment. The child (or teen, whichever the case may be) will suffer far more than they suffered from the original incident or wrong they suffered. Am I the only one with long term memory?

edited to add: On camera, AGAIN. The dad this morning acknowledges Ian wants nothing more to do with this, and is tired of talking about it. Out of the mouths of babes. I hope they follow his lead and let him retire from the media attention.

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/16/teacher-suspended-kindergartner/9171701/

I do not understand the desire to sweep child abuse under the rug, excuse it while blaming the victim for it.

We KNOW that child abuse harms a child. [modsnip]

The child doesn't want to go to school. He's terrified of her.
But that's okay? No worries about the impact the assault will have? Then claim he's over it because he didn't want to talk
about it??


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

The sheriff IS working with the family. It was in the articles.

And yes, I am worried about long term repercussions for this child having this hashed out in public. I've seen enough cases where parents make a case for their child and take their child to the media, and the town turns against them while strangers fight for them.

I very strongly sense this is exactly what will happen to this child. He will be a media hero but his town will treat him like a pariah.

I guess we'll see. Yes, I'm more worried about the future of this media circus than I am about that one little incident of teacher anger.

Because this is like a deja vu for the 100th time with a case like this that I've seen. The public doesn't seem to understand the damage they inflict in cases like this. The media understands it, but they don't care. Smells like money.

When you have a case like this with a child, there is no call to parade them in front of the cameras although it feels good and feels like revenge at the moment. The child (or teen, whichever the case may be) will suffer far more than they suffered from the original incident or wrong they suffered. Am I the only one with long term memory?

edited to add: On camera, AGAIN. The dad this morning acknowledges Ian wants nothing more to do with this, and is tired of talking about it. Out of the mouths of babes. I hope they follow his lead and let him retire from the media attention.

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/16/teacher-suspended-kindergartner/9171701/

It is a shame that people are working so hard to take this away from the facts and color the water with obtuse ideas.

This is about a child that was abused by a teacher. Not anything else. And until that fact is acknowledged and accepted as fact and as the only pertinent issue here, the child is being erased from the conversation.

This is about a teacher who abused a child. Not the parents not the media coverage. The teacher who abused a child. Period.

 

[Flutterby80]

I am still coming to grips with a kindergarten teacher who admittedly threatens to rip a 6 year old apart. This has me so upset, that I am barely even registering the physical assault. I can only assume that any adult who growls at, and threatens, a small child this way has some seriously scary mental health issues that have nothing to do with this little boy or his parents.

And I guess that I am just stunned that everybody doesn't feel the same way.

 

[Cailin Rua]

What is it about the fact that the woman is/was a teacher? If this was Mom's boyfriend on tape doing this would these same people be hinting about "dirt " they've dug up (but won't link to) about the child? Would they be reminding everyone how awful kids are nowadays and how hard it is to be a step-parent?

 

[MissJ]

Apparently, that's now considered family television and passes as entertainment...


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FWIW I've never found it funny when people are hurt or humiliated. Stupid. JMO

 

[flourish]

What is it about the fact that the woman is/was a teacher? If this was Mom's boyfriend on tape doing this would these same people be hinting about "dirt " they've dug up (but won't link to) about the child? Would they be reminding everyone how awful kids are nowadays and how hard it is to be a step-parent?

Sigh. This conversation...:scared::scared::scared: :couch:

I'm a step-mom to be...but essentially already a step-mom as child has lived with us more than half-time for the past year, and full time for the past few months. Anyway, it is hard--trying to find one's place in an already-made family...hard for dad to let go a little and let me discipline and have some input, hard for little man to have another adult at dad's house, no matter how much he likes me I'm not his bio mom. And hard for bio mom for various predictable reasons. I've definitely learned a lot and yes, wanted to run screaming into the hills sometimes.

I'm also a teacher. I teach preschoolers, the majority of whom are considered "at-risk" due to issues like poverty, homelessness, parental incarceration, neurological/cognitive issues, abuse and neglect, domestic violence, parental addiction, and so on. Now that is a hard job. One can never be truly prepared for the amount of responsibility and the high level of expectations. Pair that with a low amount of respect, and an even lower wage, and I'm sometimes amazed any of us show up for work at all. "You aren't in it for the money, though." How many times do I hear that one? No, I'm certainly not in it for the money, but there's a huge fundamental issue when my wage qualifies me for the same services offered to the low-income families on my case-load/classroom. (Due to funding cuts the teachers all had a 40-hour/week social services position added to our already overloaded full-time duties). So, while we don't do it for the money, most of us didn't realize that we'd be standing in the food box line screening calls from student loan collectors, either.

Anyway...sorry, getting off-track--emotional issues (eta: I mean these issues are emotionally-charged ones, not that I have emotional issues, although I suppose that's debatable heh)

Teachers don't get the support they need in order to use the tools and strategies they have. Our class sizes get bigger and bigger, our duties increase exponentially, and we go years and years in-between our 0.01% COLA raises, which is sometimes all we can expect. Obviously, this isn't true for every single teacher, but it's certainly been true for me and mine. The amount of students who exhibit challenging behaviors, and the behaviors themselves get increasingly difficult every single year.

Sorry, sorry, getting way off track again (sorry, Salem)

In any case, all that being what it is, I have never touched a child in anger, never threatened a child with vague (eta: or non-vague, just said vague because of the threat in this specific case) bodily harm, and have certainly never assaulted a child. I agree what this teacher did was wrong and she needs to be disciplined--severely. However, it would be great if instead of getting all holier-than-thou, we could recognize this as a learning opportunity and a wake-up call--we need to support our teachers. We can't expect them to be miracle workers with little-to-no resources and then condemn them when they crack under the completely unreasonable pressure we've put upon them.

No one wanted this to happen. I can't imagine the teacher is proud that this will be the defining moment in her career, and obviously the child and his family are rightfully upset. But it'd be super awesome cool if we could all pull out some compassion and realize this didn't happen in a vacuum, and perhaps there's more to it than an "evil teacher" and/or a "misbehaving child," but more of a result of a system that isn't working. IMO, of course. Let the tomatoes fly lol :couch:

 

[MissJ]

I am still coming to grips with a kindergarten teacher who admittedly threatens to rip a 6 year old apart. This has me so upset, that I am barely even registering the physical assault. I can only assume that any adult who growls at, and threatens, a small child this way has some seriously scary mental health issues that have nothing to do with this little boy or his parents.

And I guess that I am just stunned that everybody doesn't feel the same way.

ITA. I could never imagine speaking to ANY child in this manner and I have a nephew who would make any other child look like a boy scout. I always speak to him quietly and respectfully and he treats me the same way. :moo:

 

[Hejlena]

Sigh. This conversation...:scared::scared::scared: :couch:

I'm a step-mom to be...but essentially already a step-mom as child has lived with us more than half-time for the past year, and full time for the past few months. Anyway, it is hard--trying to find one's place in an already-made family...hard for dad to let go a little and let me discipline and have some input, hard for little man to have another adult at dad's house, no matter how much he likes me I'm not his bio mom. And hard for bio mom for various predictable reasons. I've definitely learned a lot and yes, wanted to run screaming into the hills sometimes.

I'm also a teacher. I teach preschoolers, the majority of whom are considered "at-risk" due to issues like poverty, homelessness, parental incarceration, neurological/cognitive issues, abuse and neglect, domestic violence, parental addiction, and so on. Now that is a hard job. One can never be truly prepared for the amount of responsibility and the high level of expectations. Pair that with a low amount of respect, and an even lower wage, and I'm sometimes amazed any of us show up for work at all. "You aren't in it for the money, though." How many times do I hear that one? No, I'm certainly not in it for the money, but there's a huge fundamental issue when my wage qualifies me for the same services offered to the low-income families on my case-load/classroom. (Due to funding cuts the teachers all had a 40-hour/week social services position added to our already overloaded full-time duties). So, while we don't do it for the money, most of us didn't realize that we'd be standing in the food box line screening calls from student loan collectors, either.

Anyway...sorry, getting off-track--emotional issues.

Teachers don't get the support they need in order to use the tools and strategies they have. Our class sizes get bigger and bigger, our duties increase exponentially, and we go years and years in-between our 0.01% COLA raises, which is sometimes all we can expect. Obviously, this isn't true for every single teacher, but it's certainly been true for me and mine. The amount of students who exhibit challenging behaviors, and the behaviors themselves get increasingly difficult every single year.

Sorry, sorry, getting way off track again (sorry, Salem)

In any case, all that being what it is, I have never touched a child in anger, never threatened a child with vague (eta: or non-vague, just said vague because of the threat in this specific case) bodily harm, and have certainly never assaulted a child. I agree what this teacher did was wrong and she needs to be disciplined--severely. However, it would be great if instead of getting all holier-than-thou, we could recognize this as a learning opportunity and a wake-up call--we need to support our teachers. We can't expect them to be miracle workers with little-to-no resources and then condemn them when they crack under the completely unreasonable pressure we've put upon them.

No one wanted this to happen. I can't imagine the teacher is proud that this will be the defining moment in her career, and obviously the child and his family are rightfully upset. But it'd be super awesome cool if we could all pull out some compassion and realize this didn't happen in a vacuum, and perhaps there's more to it than an "evil teacher" and/or a "misbehaving child," but more of a result of a system that isn't working. IMO, of course. Let the tomatoes fly lol :couch:

Not throwing tomatoes, I promise. And all of what you say is true about the teaching profession. But there are many many other underfunded, under-supported, stressful professions, and when a stressed out worker assaults a client, we as a society don't jump to the excuse-making as fast as we do for teachers.

And I do feel compassion for this woman, as a human being. As a teacher? Sure. It's a hard job. But the bottom line for me is she assaulted a child. For me, it's really that clear. Do I want her strung up or jailed? No. But I do want her charged. The same way she would be charged if she walked up to another teacher, or a parent, and did the things she did to that child.

Without getting too far on a tangent, I would submit this: the systematic devaluing of children in America has a lot to do with teachers' overburdened, unsupported workloads, or vice versa I guess.

 

[flourish]

Not throwing tomatoes, I promise. And all of what you say is true about the teaching profession. But there are many many other underfunded, under-supported, stressful professions, and when a stressed out worker assaults a client, we as a society don't jump to the excuse-making as fast as we do for teachers.

And I do feel compassion for this woman, as a human being. As a teacher? Sure. It's a hard job. But the bottom line for me is she assaulted a child. For me, it's really that clear. Do I want her strung up or jailed? No. But I do want her charged. The same way she would be charged if she walked up to another teacher, or a parent, and did the things she did to that child.

Without getting too far on a tangent, I would submit this: the systematic devaluing of children in America has a lot to do with teachers' overburdened, unsupported workloads, or vice versa I guess.

RBBM
Excellent points. Thank you for the thoughtful, tomato-free response. :loveyou:

eta: although, teaching is one of the few professions where your clients bite and spit at you

 

[gitana1]

I'm not permissive of this behavior, I'm always "in the middle ground". There's a reason why the sheriff didn't immediately press charges and the teacher wasn't in fact fired and the town isn't supporting the Nelsons.

Why do you think that is, if this is so one-sided as you and a few others perceive it to be? I think you're the one with the extreme reaction and I don't think this woman will ever see jail time because most people don't see this the way you do.

I also wonder if there are any men in this thread. I think Dads tend to see this a little differently, and even Ian's dad no longer wants to "boil and fester" in this and wants to move on.

It isn't me who sees this differently, it's you. I see it like the superintendent, the town, and the sheriff.

BBM. With respect, yeah, you are. You are permissive of it. In multiple ways you've expressed that you condone it. You think it is normal. You think it is acceptable. You think it's okay:

Speaking as someone who never hit my kids ever, (or anyone else's for that matter) not even once, I'm saddened that people want to ruin this woman's life and put her in jail for losing her temper at a very challenging child.

I certainly wouldn't be a public school kinder teacher if I didn't get support if I had a situation in my classroom that was unworkable and wasn't getting better.

Her behavior was dangerous - but my guess is, she didn't know that had happened to his neck until she saw it on video.

I don't see a problem (running and hiding behind the couch now) for a very angry teacher to grab a child by the shirt collar and get in their face. I just don't. Sometimes, with some kids, that's all that gets their attention.

As parents, we know that. Some kids you tell the the rules and they follow them. Some kids you have to punish to make them follow the rules. Some kids would shrink and hardly recover from being treated the way Ian was. Some kids go home and don't mention it and don't seem to even remember it and don't want to talk about it after a couple days of talking about it.

But, I'm out of here to go cook dinner and do other stuff. This isn't a discussion anymore - it's just giving a few posters a chance to vent whatever anger they have with this on me.

It is quite alarming to most people that anyone would think it's okay for a "very angry teacher" to "grab a child by their shirt collar and get in their face." Holy hell. When a teacher is "very angry" they should step away. That's what we learn in life. How in the world does the teacher's feelings of rage justify her taking it out on a kid to begin with?

I'm sorry but this attitude is baffling to me and scary. It's dangerous. If what you say is true, then a man who is "very angry" with his wife should be able to grab her by her shirt collar and get in her face or "hold her in place". And I should be able to do that to my clients when I'm "very angry". Cops should be allowed to do it, psychiatrists and nurses, bosses, judges.

This attitude is neither rational nor logical. It is alarming. Period.

People, it's okay to get angry. Everyone does. But please, step away, count to ten, take a breath, ask for a break, before getting in anyone's face, holding them in place or grabbing their shirt collar.

This is precisely what a client of mine recently did. He is a firefighter and normally a very good man. He has some medical issues and has been in great pain. To say his wife was not helpful, is an extreme understatement. He got "very angry", and when his wife refused to listen he "held her in place" as they sat there facing each other on the bed and "got in her face". Their kid called the cops.

Now, despite the fact that his wife doesn't want it to happen, he is facing a felony domestic violence conviction, jail time and the loss of his job.

He regrets it deeply but it is too late.

This kind of behavior is never excusable nor appropriate nor okay. It is criminal and can get you in major, legal trouble. Please, I hope no one reads this thread and think that this behavior is ever okay because there are shades of gray. It's just not. It constitutes a crime.