OH OH - Beverly Potts, 10, Cleveland, 24 Aug 1951

[Ozoner]

I think there is a lack of a lot of evidence. There is no evidence that she is dead. There is no evidence that the statements given by the sister and father are truthful. There is no evidence that the family pursued any serious LE investigations. There are questions surrounding the background of the Potts and fairly how they appeared in the midst of Bavarian immigrants. Then there is the interesting description of Annita Price from Moundville, WVA, and another unique description of El Dorado Jane Doe and some of the possible leads posted in those cases. They women of exceptional height, just like the child Beverly Potts, and given to participation in the entertainment industry. Is it stretching a link too far? With time, also passes a lot of opportunity to get answers.

There is no evidence that the father and sister are lying. In fact, their stories fit the known, corroborated facts. There is no suspicion on the family whatsoever: they are victims.
There is evidence that Beverly Potts is dead: the fact that she hasn't been seen or heard from in 65 years is evidence of her demise. She probably died the night she was abducted, although that is not certain. I'm not convinced that she is buried in the neighborhood. There's a good chance she was lured into the 37 Dodge that she was seen near.
Your attempts to connect this case to those others that you mentioned seem well-intentioned but very misguided.

 

[Schipperke]

Given the physical characteristics, I believe everything should be checked out for possible DNA connections. Today's DNA can tell a great deal about a person and family members. But everyone has their own opinion. I also value circumstantial evidence, but without verifying factual evidence, there is always a possibility other than death. I don't know that there is a connection, but I also know that that I don't know there is no connection either. There have been a number of "presumed dead" who have turned up alive but went missing for various reasons. We are all looking at a case or cases which were investigated in a different time of science and knowledge of criminal abilities. Yes, I happen to believe that some of these cases are linked, but I am not sure about these; just offering comment on some unusual characteristics found in this discussion--and a 6 ft woman is "unusual height" which was mentioned in all three cases. I am not attempting to connect them any more than I am attempting to rule the possible connections out.

I am always intrigued by the reasoning used by people who "don't want to see something checked out." If results don't match, then at least we know "what it is not" which is better than leaving the question open and unanswered IMO. After reading, Twilight of Innocence, I am not sure your view of the family stories is as solid and you seem to think it is.

 

[paul1980]

I would hate to see this thread locked because of a conspiracy theory.

 

[Schipperke]

No conspiracy theory; just looking at the posted information and noting similarities and concerns based on research information. Suspecting that one of more of the missing cases may be related is not charging conspiracy; it is looking at a very real possibility. I took time to read the book and do some research; noted some observations and questions for consideration. There are others that could be tossed out as well that could be "fueled" as inflammatory even when offered as simple facts. Ignoring them does not mean they don't really exist. All I suggested is that the physical descriptions MIGHT have some implication that MIGHT be worth looking at since the cases have gone nowhere all these years. I just don't understand why some people would rather do nothing and continue to wring their hands in frustration, than to take a step and see where it leads.

It is up to LE to make that decision anyway. I just don't understand why people protest movement toward a possible lead when nothing else is happening in the case.

My suggestion is out for consideration by interested persons and perhaps LE, and that is all i intended in the first place. Take it or leave it; I am.

 

[scriptgirl]

What does this mean?

"There are questions surrounding the background of the Potts and fairly how they appeared in the midst of Bavarian immigrants"

 

[Schipperke]

Beverly Potts was from a German/Bavarian/Hungarian maternal immigrant family tree. Reading ""Twilight of Innocence, gives information on Potts (father and son) as "showing up" in the primarily immigrant settlement and later then nowhere to be found. Later in the book, the author reports on a meeting with Beverly's sister, but does not give the complete name. There is a bio of the sister since the 1950's which seems rather incredible. Amateur genealogy discussions, totally unverified which is why it is not being shared here, suggested that the sister may have relocated to the east coast and could possibly be connected to the missing WVA woman and Eldorado Jane Doe with the exceptional height being a possible distinguishing factor which could be checked into for either verification or ruling out. Nothing concrete--only possibilities. Having a student in the family who is seeking a degree in Criminology, can produce some interesting discussions. The other interesting thing is that a fair number of the missing and/or the persons of interest in some of the cases here also appear to share name ethnicity from that area as well. It is also a fact that post War migration, did create pockets of ethnic neighborhoods. AGAIN, NOTHING CONCRETE! ONLY POSSIBILITY OF AVENUES TO EXPLORE. And the authorship of the various books on these missing cases needs to be taken into consideration when weighing the value of the information. These are factual observations, not an attack on ethnicity in any way shape or form. Ignoring uncomfortable facts does not make them go away in reality. Check the breaking news WS pages for a case which was solved through genealogy research on September 19, 2016--a 30 year old cross country mystery aided by identity theft!

 

[Schipperke]

Beverly Potts was from a German/Bavarian/Hungarian maternal immigrant family tree. Reading "Twilight of Innocence, gives information on Potts (father and son) as "showing up" in the primarily immigrant settlement and later then nowhere to be found. Later in the book, the author reports on a meeting with Beverly's sister, but does not give the complete name. There is a bio of the sister since the 1950's which seems rather incredible. Amateur genealogy discussions, totally unverified which is why it is not being shared here, suggested that the sister may have relocated to the east coast and could possibly be connected to the missing WVA woman and Eldorado Jane Doe with the exceptional height being a possible distinguishing factor which could be checked into for either verification or ruling out. Nothing concrete--only possibilities. Having a student in the family who is seeking a degree in Criminology, can produce some interesting discussions. The other interesting thing is that a fair number of the missing and/or the persons of interest in some of the cases here also appear to share name ethnicity from that area as well. It is also a fact that post War migration, did create pockets of ethnic neighborhoods. AGAIN, NOTHING CONCRETE! ONLY POSSIBILITY OF AVENUES TO EXPLORE. And the authorship of the various books on these missing cases needs to be taken into consideration when weighing the value of the information. These are factual observations, not an attack on ethnicity in any way shape or form. Ignoring uncomfortable facts does not make them go away in reality. Check the breaking news WS pages for a case which was solved through genealogy research on September 19, 2016--a 30 year old cross country mystery aided by identity theft!​

 

[Cincinnati Kid]

. No idea if Patsy is alive. She'd probably be in her mid 70s now if she is.

At last report, Patsy Swing was still alive and residing far from Cleveland.

 

[paul1980]

Wacky theories and the libeling of living people is why WS is not able to have a Beaumont Children Disappearance thread. I would hate to see Beverly's thread go the same way.

 

[Schipperke]

I can certainly understand why Patsy would want to distance herself from memories (of reality) like these. I have found, though, that the process of senior aging sometimes begins by bringing back memories of early life.

 

[scriptgirl]

I don't get it. I thought Bev's dad was around when she vanished and now you are saying he was not? What brother and son do you mean and why is the sister's bio so incredible?

 

[Schipperke]

The book gave a list of accomplishments of the pseudo-named sister. It also gave information on the entrance of the Potts father and son into the immigrant community which has some interesting tracings in the family tree along with another "name unverified" female. It involves research and verification, as do most of these cases. Forensic genealogy is a new-developing science in criminal justice, just like fingerprints and DNA were at one time. Any one of those can begin and/or work together to end the search line depending on whether not the "pseudos" can be identified and verified. That is probably why pseudos are used in places like books in the first place--to prevent violating privacy laws. You don't toss out names in public without absolute verification and acceptance of risk; that is the job of LE. Sleuthing involves following the possible connections to see where they lead. The important issue is to know the difference between "suspected" and "proven." Nothing will be proven unless it is first suspected and then "sleuthed" (researched and verified). It begins with asking questions, but it requires a good bit of individual effort to confirm, understand, and compare information.

 

[flourish]

I am utterly confused about this pseudo named people and vague references to relocation and what not. Can you be more specific about what you're getting at here? If you can't then perhaps it's not the best idea to post vague half-explained theories until there's enough information to actually share so we're not playing a game of guessing?

Am I the only confused one, though? It's happened before...

 

[Schipperke]

People who are researching instead of looking from someone to post the answers will understand the connections and where to find the information. If all the facts and answers had been verified, the case would be solved instead of still being out there for researching. As an individual, I am not about to post names and more than a book author would--the public identification is the job of LE. I am sorry if you some do not understand the connections, but checking out the three cases could help with verification or rule the possibility out. It is LE's choice to make on what to investigate. All the public can do is bring relevant facts to their attention. For example, in the Lyon sisters case, a sketch of the man now awaiting trial was produced in 1975 through a child witness; it sat in the file until 2013 before its importance was known. I feel there is reason to investigate a link into the 3 cases, and I have posted information here to where I found the information and compared it to information posted here on WS. I cannot be more specific than that at this time in a public forum. ?There is a difference between "guessing" and "checking out facts contained in the case." which have very real possibilities.

 

[Ozoner]

I am utterly confused about this pseudo named people and vague references to relocation and what not. Can you be more specific about what you're getting at here? If you can't then perhaps it's not the best idea to post vague half-explained theories until there's enough information to actually share so we're not playing a game of guessing?

Am I the only confused one, though? It's happened before...

It appears that some members are to be applauded for their creative thinking.

The verbiage is too elliptical for me to understand all of the nuances, but a simplified version--I think--is that a tall woman named Annita Price disappeared from WV many years after Beverly Potts was abducted. Because Beverly Potts was tall (alledgedly), and because the woman who disappeared was also tall AND had a similar name to that of Beverly's sister, that woman must have really been Beverly Potts herself, who apparently resurfaced decades later in a different state only to disappear again. It makes perfect sense, wouldn't you say? I can't believe no one made the connection sooner. Someone was asleep at the switch.

Because there were Bavarian immigrants in both Cleveland and West Virginia, it's clear that Beverly's dad's connections to the community are the key to the whole mystery.

 

[flourish]

It appears that some members are to be applauded for their creative thinking.

The verbiage is too elliptical for me to understand all of the nuances, but a simplified version--I think--is that a tall woman named Annita Price disappeared from WV many years after Beverly Potts was abducted. Because Beverly Potts was tall (alledgedly), and because the woman who disappeared was also tall AND had a similar name to that of Beverly's sister, that woman must have really been Beverly Potts herself, who apparently resurfaced decades later in a different state only to disappear again. It makes perfect sense, wouldn't you say? I can't believe no one made the connection sooner. Someone was asleep at the switch.

Because there were Bavarian immigrants in both Cleveland and West Virginia, it's clear that Beverly's dad's connections to the community are the key to the whole mystery.

Okay yeah going back and reviewing I see I need to don a tin foil hat if I want to "research" instead of having the audacity to ask people to explain their vague hinting. And I'm out of tin foil, so I'll just wait and watch for actual information. Vague-sleuth away.

 

[Vivette]

Wow :scared:

 

[Schipperke]

And just why would some people want to go to so much effort dismiss, or divert from, a possible connection rather than rule it out? That is the oldest trick in the book, and and the delaying tactic still works most of the time. How long was it believed that the world was flat because some convinced others that Columbus was wearing the ancient version of the tin foil hat? Closer to today's time, how many laughed at and dismissed the idea that a simple B&E at Watergate would lead to the resignation of a US President? Who would have believed that a man who wanted to learn to steer a jet but had no interest in learning how to land one, would lead to TWO PLANES BEING HIJACKED AND FLOWN into the WTC? DNA, Genetics, space travel, even simple air transportation--all were science fiction at one time! All were good for laughs at one time, and no one laughed harder than the people who wanted to keep progress hidden. So believe whatever you will about whether or not a connection to any of the three cases is worth checking out. It is out there for consideration, which was my sole intent in the first place.

 

[Schipperke]

O, BTW, this might hit closer to home from some long-time websleuthers --- Who would have believed that a thief and escaped prison convict could become a millionaire with homes in Minnesota and Virginia? Who would have believed his trick was changing his identity at least 9 times in 5 years? If someone told you, a millionaire was an escaped convict who changed his name, would you have laughed? Well, check the story of Bernard Welch of Great Falls, VA, and keep laughing. Even fellow LE officers laughed at the detective who "dogged" that case to its solution. Strange things happen!

 

[TheArtfulDetective]

I think a woman killed Potts... i just have that feeling...

It would be an interesting avenue to consider for sure. Why do you think a woman would want to kidnap / kill her? I'm only skeptical because it seems women aren't commonly responsible for people disappearing. Usually if women are kidnappers, it's a baby or toddler, or their own children even. But anything is possible, especially in a case with zero evidence where everything should be considered.​