Found Deceased OH - Braylen Noble, 3, non-verbal, Toledo, 4 Sept 2020

[SAMS]

I doubt there was anyone out searching between midnight and 4am. That was the perfect time to move him. I believe he was buried in that hole in the woods and moved, possibly a few times, until he was discovered in the pool. As to who did it and why, I have a few ideas but they can’t be discussed yet.

I agree. No one would’ve paid much attention to an adult with a child possibly flung over the shoulder looking like they’re sleep. MOO

 

[Harmony 2]

As far as I know no one has been arrested or named a POI in this case. Some posts are stepping over the line and are not victim friendly. Other posts are veiled accusations but it is clear what the underlining meaning is.

You have the option to open a group in your conversation area where up to 20 members can be invited. The area is totally private and moderators cannot view the discussion. You are free to discuss whatever you want there. The inbox set up is exactly like the public board. All other TOS compliant information can be discussed here.

Do not ask on the public board for an invitation.

Thanks...

 

[Rosegold68]

still nothing new? mothers whereabouts?

 

[crush]

No press releases from LE, ME, but I believe tommorow is funeral.
If anyone can confirm.

 

[crush]

I can't get any more info on funeral (will or won't take place).

Coroner did say Braylen was found with some marbling on face, chest.
Marbling is not the same as lividity.

Lividity happens after death when blood settles to whatever is lowest part of body. Marbling is greenish/purple coloring from bacteria developing in vessels.
Lividity wasn't mentioned, just marbling.
The body was found face down in the pool, but it hadn't been there all week.
Was he "face down" somewhere else?
Does anyone know more about this subject?

 

[crush]

Sorry to add, but marbling happens after lividity. As far as literature provided, TRIGGER WARNING it is a beginning sign of putrefaction but as ME said the body was not badly decomposed yet.
Sorry for unpleasant details but it adds confusion to case IMHO.

 

[Yemelyan]

I can't get any more info on funeral (will or won't take place).

Coroner did say Braylen was found with some marbling on face, chest.
Marbling is not the same as lividity.

Lividity happens after death when blood settles to whatever is lowest part of body. Marbling is greenish/purple coloring from bacteria developing in vessels.
Lividity wasn't mentioned, just marbling.
The body was found face down in the pool, but it hadn't been there all week.
Was he "face down" somewhere else?
Does anyone know more about this subject?

I can tell you what I know about these two postmortem changes...full disclosure, I haven't seen any part of the coroner's report.

Lividity is, as @crush stated, the gravitational pooling of blood in the body after death. It starts occurring pretty much as soon as blood circulation ceases. It's a dark reddish purple coloration of the skin that's usually fully evident after about 3-4 hours and fixed after 8-12 hours. I think a lot of people here probably know about rigor mortis, the stiffening of the body after death and how rigor mortis eventually goes away? Livor mortis, or lividity, doesn't go away after it's fixed and even moving the body position will not cause it to disappear after that point.

Lividity is evident not only on the skin but also in the internal organs. So even if injury to the skin or other factors made it hard to see externally, internal examination would reveal it.

The physiological mechanism that causes lividity can be pretty variable among individuals so just by itself, it can't be used to yield an exact time of death.

I only know of one thing that can "prevent" lividity from forming and that would be a severely anemic body. Outside of that, some type of lividity would have been present in Braylen IMO. As stated above, it can't go away once it is fixed and that happens relatively soon after death.



Marbling, also as @crush stated, is part of the decomposition process. It is entirely unrelated to body position after death. After death, intestinal bacteria and other microorganisms spread throughout the body. One of these pathways is along blood vessels. As they proliferate, they turn adjacent body tissues green, red and black. When this occurs in veins just under the skin, this artifact is called marbling.

In bodies after death, decomposition processes occur at different rates in different parts of the body, and this can vary from person to person. So I don't read too much into the fact that marbling was seen on his chest and face but not mentioned in other body parts. What we can take away from this is that Braylen wasn't recently killed (within a few hours or a day of) when he was found in the pool. Marbling as part of the decomposition process is not one of the very first changes to occur after death.

All MOO.

 

[crush]

I can tell you what I know about these two postmortem changes...full disclosure, I haven't seen any part of the coroner's report.

Lividity is, as @crush stated, the gravitational pooling of blood in the body after death. It starts occurring pretty much as soon as blood circulation ceases. It's a dark reddish purple coloration of the skin that's usually fully evident after about 3-4 hours and fixed after 8-12 hours. I think a lot of people here probably know about rigor mortis, the stiffening of the body after death and how rigor mortis eventually goes away? Livor mortis, or lividity, doesn't go away after it's fixed and even moving the body position will not cause it to disappear after that point.

Lividity is evident not only on the skin but also in the internal organs. So even if injury to the skin or other factors made it hard to see externally, internal examination would reveal it.

The physiological mechanism that causes lividity can be pretty variable among individuals so just by itself, it can't be used to yield an exact time of death.

I only know of one thing that can "prevent" lividity from forming and that would be a severely anemic body. Outside of that, some type of lividity would have been present in Braylen IMO. As stated above, it can't go away once it is fixed and that happens relatively soon after death.



Marbling, also as @crush stated, is part of the decomposition process. It is entirely unrelated to body position after death. After death, intestinal bacteria and other microorganisms spread throughout the body. One of these pathways is along blood vessels. As they proliferate, they turn adjacent body tissues green, red and black. When this occurs in veins just under the skin, this artifact is called marbling.

In bodies after death, decomposition processes occur at different rates in different parts of the body, and this can vary from person to person. So I don't read too much into the fact that marbling was seen on his chest and face but not mentioned in other body parts. What we can take away from this is that Braylen wasn't recently killed (within a few hours or a day of) when he was found in the pool. Marbling as part of the decomposition process is not one of the very first changes to occur after death.

All MOO.

Thank you so much Yemelyan!

Important things learned: IMHO!
Lividity doesn't go away
Marbling does NOT reveal position.of body (I wish I could edit my facedown question but I got a "too late" message)
Braylen's death would have happened at least a day before he was in pool.
Whether lividity didn't happen due to something like anemia, or it happened and ME just didn't mention it, it can be determined internally from the organs.
For marbling to happen, Braylen had to be dead for some time.
I hope I got that right; I'm pretty sure lots of us had no understanding of these things!
We're lucky to have you.

 

[crush]

I can tell you what I know about these two postmortem changes...full disclosure, I haven't seen any part of the coroner's report.

Lividity is, as @crush stated, the gravitational pooling of blood in the body after death. It starts occurring pretty much as soon as blood circulation ceases. It's a dark reddish purple coloration of the skin that's usually fully evident after about 3-4 hours and fixed after 8-12 hours. I think a lot of people here probably know about rigor mortis, the stiffening of the body after death and how rigor mortis eventually goes away? Livor mortis, or lividity, doesn't go away after it's fixed and even moving the body position will not cause it to disappear after that point.

Lividity is evident not only on the skin but also in the internal organs. So even if injury to the skin or other factors made it hard to see externally, internal examination would reveal it.

The physiological mechanism that causes lividity can be pretty variable among individuals so just by itself, it can't be used to yield an exact time of death.

I only know of one thing that can "prevent" lividity from forming and that would be a severely anemic body. Outside of that, some type of lividity would have been present in Braylen IMO. As stated above, it can't go away once it is fixed and that happens relatively soon after death.



Marbling, also as @crush stated, is part of the decomposition process. It is entirely unrelated to body position after death. After death, intestinal bacteria and other microorganisms spread throughout the body. One of these pathways is along blood vessels. As they proliferate, they turn adjacent body tissues green, red and black. When this occurs in veins just under the skin, this artifact is called marbling.

In bodies after death, decomposition processes occur at different rates in different parts of the body, and this can vary from person to person. So I don't read too much into the fact that marbling was seen on his chest and face but not mentioned in other body parts. What we can take away from this is that Braylen wasn't recently killed (within a few hours or a day of) when he was found in the pool. Marbling as part of the decomposition process is not one of the very first changes to occur after death.

All MOO.[/QUOTE

Does skin slippage always happen with water? It was NOT mentioned, but I remember it's happened with someone dead in hot bath or hot car. I don't know about cool temps or tepid.

 

[crush]

To be clear, I have not seen coroner's report, I saw the WTOL article which had notes from investigator from coroner's office.

How can I donate to help cover Braylen Noble's funeral? | wtol.com

 

[Yemelyan]

Does skin slippage always happen with water? It was NOT mentioned, but I remember it's happened with someone dead in hot bath or hot car. I don't know about cool temps or tepid.

Skin slippage occurs in the decomposition of basically all bodies, whether in water or not.

Skin slippage/blistering, along with marbling that was previously discussed, is part of the fermentation process in decomposition. Fermentation occurs as the spread of intestinal and other bacteria transforms tissues and organs into liquids and gases. So skin slippage represents the liquification of the underlying layers of the skin. Commonly, the skin of the hands and feet will skip off, glove-like fashion. Hair and nails will detach.

Generally speaking there are five stages of decomposition. This may help answer the question of why wasn't Braylen in advanced decay yet.

1. Fresh (autolysis)
2. Bloat
3. Active decay
4. Advanced decay
5. Skeletonized

Marbling and skin slippage occur in the bloat stage. Active decay is when insect activity takes over.

Modifying factors that affect how fast the fermentation/bloat stage progress are: ambient temperature, how much bacteria are in the body at the time of death (a septic body may decay faster than a healthy one), wounds or other defects that expose body cavities, body position, presence of clothing, BMI, certain drugs, submersion in water or burial among other things.

Warm environments accelerate the stages of decomposition. Heat encourages bacterial growth and the breakdown of organic material in tissues and organs. In winter, not all bodies will go through the bloat stage for this reason.

Submersion in water typically slows the rate of decomposition. Heat is lost faster from the body in water compared to air. Cool temperatures inhibit bacterial growth. But this is affected by water depth, dissolved oxygen, acidity of water, salinity, sedimentation, and insect/scavenger activity. Bodies recovered from very deep, very cold water may be remarkable well preserved (think very deep lakes in cold regions). We don't really know how long Braylen was in the water. We can assume that for however long he was placed in water, whether a few hours or a few days, it would have slowed down his decomposition during that time.

I hope this helps. All MOO.

 

[crush]

Skin slippage occurs in the decomposition of basically all bodies, whether in water or not.

Skin slippage/blistering, along with marbling that was previously discussed, is part of the fermentation process in decomposition. Fermentation occurs as the spread of intestinal and other bacteria transforms tissues and organs into liquids and gases. So skin slippage represents the liquification of the underlying layers of the skin. Commonly, the skin of the hands and feet will skip off, glove-like fashion. Hair and nails will detach.

Generally speaking there are five stages of decomposition. This may help answer the question of why wasn't Braylen in advanced decay yet.

1. Fresh (autolysis)
2. Bloat
3. Active decay
4. Advanced decay
5. Skeletonized

Marbling and skin slippage occur in the bloat stage. Active decay is when insect activity takes over.

Modifying factors that affect how fast the fermentation/bloat stage progress are: ambient temperature, how much bacteria are in the body at the time of death (a septic body may decay faster than a healthy one), wounds or other defects that expose body cavities, body position, presence of clothing, BMI, certain drugs, submersion in water or burial among other things.

Warm environments accelerate the stages of decomposition. Heat encourages bacterial growth and the breakdown of organic material in tissues and organs. In winter, not all bodies will go through the bloat stage for this reason.

Submersion in water typically slows the rate of decomposition. Heat is lost faster from the body in water compared to air. Cool temperatures inhibit bacterial growth. But this is affected by water depth, dissolved oxygen, acidity of water, salinity, sedimentation, and insect/scavenger activity. Bodies recovered from very deep, very cold water may be remarkable well preserved (think very deep lakes in cold regions). We don't really know how long Braylen was in the water. We can assume that for however long he was placed in water, whether a few hours or a few days, it would have slowed down his decomposition during that time.

I hope this helps. All MOO.

Absolutely it helps! ( This is like getting to audit a class in anatomical science.)
Thank you for your knowledge and the time this took; I never was clear on how that process developed.

 

[nyvictoria]

Skin slippage occurs in the decomposition of basically all bodies, whether in water or not.

Skin slippage/blistering, along with marbling that was previously discussed, is part of the fermentation process in decomposition. Fermentation occurs as the spread of intestinal and other bacteria transforms tissues and organs into liquids and gases. So skin slippage represents the liquification of the underlying layers of the skin. Commonly, the skin of the hands and feet will skip off, glove-like fashion. Hair and nails will detach.

Generally speaking there are five stages of decomposition. This may help answer the question of why wasn't Braylen in advanced decay yet.

1. Fresh (autolysis)
2. Bloat
3. Active decay
4. Advanced decay
5. Skeletonized

Marbling and skin slippage occur in the bloat stage. Active decay is when insect activity takes over.

Modifying factors that affect how fast the fermentation/bloat stage progress are: ambient temperature, how much bacteria are in the body at the time of death (a septic body may decay faster than a healthy one), wounds or other defects that expose body cavities, body position, presence of clothing, BMI, certain drugs, submersion in water or burial among other things.

Warm environments accelerate the stages of decomposition. Heat encourages bacterial growth and the breakdown of organic material in tissues and organs. In winter, not all bodies will go through the bloat stage for this reason.

Submersion in water typically slows the rate of decomposition. Heat is lost faster from the body in water compared to air. Cool temperatures inhibit bacterial growth. But this is affected by water depth, dissolved oxygen, acidity of water, salinity, sedimentation, and insect/scavenger activity. Bodies recovered from very deep, very cold water may be remarkable well preserved (think very deep lakes in cold regions). We don't really know how long Braylen was in the water. We can assume that for however long he was placed in water, whether a few hours or a few days, it would have slowed down his decomposition during that time.

I hope this helps. All MOO.

Thank you for your detailed explanations.

 

[LucyRocket]

To be clear, I have not seen coroner's report, I saw the WTOL article which had notes from investigator from coroner's office.

How can I donate to help cover Braylen Noble's funeral? | wtol.com

You've seen more than me. I'm still seeing 'Access denied'

So I really appreciate the dialogue

 

[crush]

You've seen more than me. I'm still seeing 'Access denied'

So I really appreciate the dialogue

Oops again!
Says: notes compiled by an investigator with the coroner's office state that Braylen was found in the deep end of the partially filled pool. He was found wearing a black t-shirt and diaper. There was the presence of vascular marbling, which is an early sign of decomposition, on the child's face neck and chest . The child was well nourished and showed no signs of injury.

 

[Rosegold68]

why would marbling be on just neck and chest and not all over?

 

[Yemelyan]

why would marbling be on just neck and chest and not all over?

Different parts of the body decompose at different rates and sometimes there's no rhyme or reason; however, marbling is typically seen in skin that has very superficial veins, aka where skin stretches over veins that are close to the surface without a lot of fat tissue directly under the skin. So you probably wouldn't see marbling, in, say, buttocks but you might see it in veins of the lower arms, hands, face. The chest of a lean individual would be typical IMO.

 

[LucyRocket]

Oops again!
Says: notes compiled by an investigator with the coroner's office state that Braylen was found in the deep end of the partially filled pool. He was found wearing a black t-shirt and diaper. There was the presence of vascular marbling, which is an early sign of decomposition, on the child's face neck and chest . The child was well nourished and showed no signs of injury.

Thank you

 

[Edinlass]

Wow, I want the truth about this little boy be it an accident or intent but some of the chats on this thread are far from my remit of even wanting to know about.

Hopefully we can have closure soon....

 

[crush]

Wow, I want the truth about this little boy be it an accident or intent but some of the chats on this thread are far from my remit of even wanting to know about.

Hopefully we can have closure soon....

If you are referring to autopsy posts, I do try and put a TRIGGER WARNING . Otherwise, all missing or unsolved cases are likely to get death details, ot abuse/sexual abuse, just plain ugly info. It may be from press, LE, courtroom. I know how you feel; none of us like it. I hope for closure soon too.
Maybe we can use spoiler option? It's up to you guys.