Found Deceased OH - Braylen Noble, 3, non-verbal, Toledo, 4 Sept 2020

[Scribo]

Just found this on the WNWO FB-- this is from the reporter who did the on camera interview with Braylen's mother.

Sophia Perricone WNWO NBC 24
7h ·

"I just heard from Braylen Noble’s mom, Dajnae. She says she is not doing well, but is holding up, after her 3-year-old son’s body was found in their apartment complex pool Wednesday.

Her and her family appreciate everyone’s prayers."

 

[spiritseeker31]

Autopsy on Braylen Noble inconclusive
I don't understand how the autopsy can come up inconclusive. He's only been deceased (assuming) less than a week. Does anyone know what the next step could be? Does someone else do a secondary autopsy?

 

[BeckyF]

DBM

 

[LucyRocket]

Autopsy on Braylen Noble inconclusive
I don't understand how the autopsy can come up inconclusive. He's only been deceased (assuming) less than a week. Does anyone know what the next step could be? Does someone else do a secondary autopsy?

This is only the first stage of the autopsy. It means that there was nothing obvious, to the eye, which would have caused death to occur; for example, a knife wound which lacerated the heart would be a sure cause of death. There are other tests which get carried out in scientific laboratories now, for things the eye can't see, such as blood and tissue sample testing to check for, for example, poisoning

 

[Beagle]

This is only the first stage of the autopsy. It means that there was nothing obvious, to the eye, which would have caused death to occur; for example, a knife wound which lacerated the heart would be a sure cause of death. There are other tests which get carried out in scientific laboratories now, for things the eye can't see, such as blood and tissue sample testing to check for, for example, poisoning

Wouldn't drowning be a relatively visible indicator of death? Maybe further analysis to determine where/how he drowned, but for an initial cause of death.

 

[LucyRocket]

Wouldn't drowning be a relatively visible indicator of death? Maybe further analysis to determine where/how he drowned, but for an initial cause of death.

I'm probably the last person on here to give you anywhere near an educated reply! Up until this case, I would have agreed with that statement, and although it's true, the difficulty is ascertaining that drowning was the CAUSE of death. From the little reading I've done, it appears that drowning is the most difficult cause of death to determine, and is more difficult in pool water than in sea water, and becomes more difficult the longer the body remains in water. So yes, the presence of water in the lungs could make you consider drowning, but further scientific tests need to be carried out to check where in the body microbes are dispersed and in what quantity to decide whether ingestion took place ante-mortem, or if the presence of fluid is due to submersion in water post-mortem. Or something like that. I think. MOO

 

[MurderMittens]

Oh man. I cant comment on this case because EVERY WORD that I wanna say is against TOS because it's swears. Cant imagine this case. This is a completely new one on me.

 

[Myparabol]

Does anyone know how far the pool is from the apartment he went missing from? Just trying to see if it would even be reasonable to think that he could have gotten out of the house by himself somehow and made it to the pool before the mother and grandmother noticed he was gone and went searching around the pool.

The moms building is right next-door to the pool

 

[oviedo]

Can anyone think of a different case where it seemed the body could have been relocated during the initial search-period / investigation to a location within the search zone, where it would be easy to to be caught doing the relocating and to a place where the victim would definitely eventually be found?

It's so brazen. And I wonder, IF it happened, if it's unprecedented. Not that it matters; anything humanly possible is possible. It's just so daring; it doesn't fit with what would be such a cowardly crime initially.

I always thought Caylee was moved but we have no proof - I hope there is some video that shows something but it’s doubtful there is
JMO

 

[musicaljoke]

Good question. At my condos our pool has been closed since June but kept the cover off to allow pool care but after kids jumped fence (whom did not reside here) we had to put on cover.The pool service is a contract so even when not in use still has to be paid. Just a guess as to why there was no cover on pool if it was closed to residents because of covid.They may have left it off thinking phase 3 would happen before Fall.
To add- Most Northern States use pool covers during winter and I assumed these apartments had one.

Could his little body have been caught up in the pool cover when they searched the pool?

 

[musicaljoke]

Here's something I didn't know:

According to CBC report, cadaver dogs are trained to smell dead remains, human remains, as deep as 30 meters of water.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/cadaver-dogs-science-training-1.3654993

Seems that since sniffer and cadaver dogs were photographed poolside as LE searched, it's even more unlikely Braylens body was in pool before last day.

Is it possible that pool chemicals make it difficult for sniffer and cadaver dogs?

 

[musicaljoke]

View attachment 263378

Someone asked about steps/ramp from the grass/ fence level to the pool. I'm sorry I can't find that post now.

This picture shows the steps, and that the top of the wall is 2 blocks in width all the way round. Not ideal for someone scared of heights, I'd be hanging on to that fence and not looking down! But probably not very difficult to do by the look of it

Yes, I agree that it doesn't look difficult for a three yr old to get through the gap, follow along the top of the block wall to the steps and get into the pool. I guess we need to be assured that the pool was thoroughly searched. It wasn't drained, was it? I didn't read anything about draining the pool for the search, but I may have missed that.

 

[Skigh]

Yes, I agree that it doesn't look difficult for a three yr old to get through the gap, follow along the top of the block wall to the steps and get into the pool. I guess we need to be assured that the pool was thoroughly searched. It wasn't drained, was it? I didn't read anything about draining the pool for the search, but I may have missed that.

This is a clear water swimming pool,not a muddy,weedy pond.It was searched by divers and dogs. If a body had been in there,they would have found it.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Wouldn't drowning be a relatively visible indicator of death? Maybe further analysis to determine where/how he drowned, but for an initial cause of death.

Drowning is difficult at autopsy and is typically diagnosed only after all other causes of death are excluded. It leaves very little evidence to the naked eye (the "gross" phase of the autopsy). Sometimes water does not actually enter the lungs due to spasm of the larynx, but that means no air gets in either which results in cardiac arrest. The lungs then fill with water after death and the relaxation of the larynx. Sometimes death is due to water directly entering the lungs and interfering with respiration, resulting in suffocation.

Further studies, for example, looking at lung tissue under the microscope can reveal changes to the tissue that show evidence of active respiration of water during drowning. It takes time for microscopic slides to be made and returned to the M.E., sometimes weeks.

There really is no way to include/exclude drowning at gross autopsy, which is the step that was done with the naked eye on Thursday. Drowning is usually diagnosed only when every other possible cause of death is ruled out, similar to SIDS actually.

 

[Inquisitive2018]

Mom said that the only way he could have gotten out is through the window. I dunno, why not say maybe she left the door open as well if she wants to cover it up. Could Braylen have fallen out unharmed?

 

[Skigh]

Mom said that the only way he could have gotten out is through the window. I dunno, why not say maybe she left the door open as well if she wants to cover it up. Could Braylen have fallen out unharmed?

Perhaps it could be proved he could not manage the stairs himself.
I think it is highly unlikely he could have fallen out of the window without having injuries which would be obvious in the postmortem.
I do not think it is possible he could have fallen and someone else found him and took him to their apartment.
The one thing I have wondered is if he was thrown out of the window to someone else after he had died.

 

[Gardenkeep]

I'm probably the last person on here to give you anywhere near an educated reply! Up until this case, I would have agreed with that statement, and although it's true, the difficulty is ascertaining that drowning was the CAUSE of death. From the little reading I've done, it appears that drowning is the most difficult cause of death to determine, and is more difficult in pool water than in sea water, and becomes more difficult the longer the body remains in water. So yes, the presence of water in the lungs could make you consider drowning, but further scientific tests need to be carried out to check where in the body microbes are dispersed and in what quantity to decide whether ingestion took place ante-mortem, or if the presence of fluid is due to submersion in water post-mortem. Or something like that. I think. MOO

Yup. My research into identifying drowning as the cause of death yielded this same info. My questions are around how he was found? More specific questions I have are a bit too graphic to be comfortable posting though. I do believe how will go along way in whether drowning is the COD.

 

[Dylansmom08]

I don't know about how hard it is to determine drowning as a cause of death but I would think that if he fell out of a window from the upstairs he would have some type of injuries at the very least some bruising, scrapes or something that would be obvious. Everything about this confuses me I want to believe that the mother didn't harm her child but I don't think we have enough evidence to prove anything either way.

 

[LucyRocket]

The moms building is right next-door to the pool

Well, kind of. There's 4 buildings and hers is the furthest away

 

[crush]

I'm holding some hope that cameras were planted at least after things in the woods started going weird: bloody blanket appears where previously searchers cleared, same with two by four/hole dug.

Either interference by guilty party or helper; or even some random idiot getting a cheap thrill. Those cameras are so easy to set up now even with night vision.
LE did start suddenly telling searchers suddenly to stop looking in certain places and go certain places farther away.
I believe analysis might find meds or something in blood or tissue.
I think it might be possible he choked on vomit, there was so much emphasis on his constant crying and picky eater that you can't make eat. If he's trying to eat when he doesn't want to, and sobbing at same time, if he's in bed later he could vomit and aspirate food.
JMO