OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #2

[MatthewTyler]

I'm still going to go ahead and say my top belief is that Brian exited the bar through the back service exit where the camera just failed to operate and zoom in on him OR successfully exited through the construction site, and either way got into a car that was waiting nearby. I think he wanted to ditch Clint and Meredith and go elsewhere, which is why he went out the back way as to not run into them again. I don't believe the "I'm going to talk to the band" conversation ever happened. I think Brian might have left before that supposed time. Once he got into the car he was either A) immediately kidnapped/killed and disposed of by someone he thought he could trust or B) Taken to a party where he died accidentally and then was disposed of in a cover-up.

I know it's not perfect and probably full of holes but I'd sooner believe this rather than someone killed him in the bar.

ETA: Brian was supposedly a regular at the Ugly Tuna, so I'm sure he had to have known at least some of the staff on a personal level. Perhaps one of them invited Brian to this party and helped him out the service exit if he asked out how he can leave without going through the front? The episode of "Psychic Kids" that had his case said that there could be a woman who knows more than she's telling". Not that I believe that psychic stuff, but I would believe that a good looking guy like Brian could schmooze a female staff member into helping him get out. Maybe she knew about the party he might have gone too and felt partially responsible for his death and kept quiet? Or heck, maybe if he was committing acts of infidelity maybe it was with her and her BF found out and she kept quiet to protect said bf.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

The timeframe is also what is so frustrating about this case. He's alive and well at 1:55 and then all of a sudden before 2:30 he's in oblivion. This is why I think he may possibly have gotten out of the bar (undetected) and went elsewhere. That would open up the timeframe significantly for whatever happened to happen. The other option I was thinking also, and I believe it's been mentioned before, is if he was somehow lured in the kitchen, killed, kept there and taken out in a trash bag and driven elsewhere the next day. The police said there was no blood found inside the bar anywhere so if they did take him out, I think it might have been in one piece. At least until they left the bar anyway

Yeah, I think we are on the same page. I want to believe he could be out there somewhere alive, but when we go looking for the most likely scenario to fit the evidence, it seems he either got out undetected or was hidden until he could be removed under cover.

There are definitely rare cases of people being found in wrecked vehicles or rivers years and years later. Which may happen one day and point to an accidental death.

But if it is foul play, no one has talked in this long. Makes me think it's a pretty small number of people involved, if so, and they must think they are guilty enough that they have a lot to protect.


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[Brainy]

Not being detected on camera is not that shocking. At this point, we are not even sure if all the cameras at all locations had were actually functioning. I think it's preposterous to think that Brian was killed inside the bar and then hidden there. Again, a body is not a needle in a haysack. Somehow, Brian exited the bar and something bad happened to him. Do I think Brian is alive? No. Do I think Brian left on his own accord? No. Somebody killed him and then disposed of his body. No body=missing person=unending sea of possibilities.


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[Deleted member 155000]

Not being detected on camera is not that shocking. At this point, we are not even sure if all the cameras at all locations had were actually functioning. I think it's preposterous to think that Brian was killed inside the bar and then hidden there. Again, a body is not a needle in a haysack. Somehow, Brian exited the bar and something bad happened to him. Do I think Brian is alive? No. Do I think Brian left on his own accord? No. Somebody killed him and then disposed of his body. No body=missing person=unending sea of possibilities.


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The police at the time confirmed the cameras were functioning but one was a panning camera that panned from side to side which could theoretically create a gap in coverage when Brian walks out.


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[MatthewTyler]

Not being detected on camera is not that shocking. At this point, we are not even sure if all the cameras at all locations had were actually functioning. I think it's preposterous to think that Brian was killed inside the bar and then hidden there. Again, a body is not a needle in a haysack. Somehow, Brian exited the bar and something bad happened to him. Do I think Brian is alive? No. Do I think Brian left on his own accord? No. Somebody killed him and then disposed of his body. No body=missing person=unending sea of possibilities.


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Which again leads me to say that whoever killed him must have done it for personal reasons. I find it hard to believe that someone just randomly decides to go up to him and kill him on his trek home. This was a busy Friday night with a lot of witnesses, though I guess that doesn't say much since he still managed to disappear. Also again, his card and phone were never used so unless the perp only took cash (if he had any?) what would be the point in even mugging him? Just to kill? I know Columbus had a sketchy area, but Brian lived in the opposite direction from that. That's why I suspect something like drugs was involved, because that might have given Brian a reason to go to the sketchy area, if he was picking some up.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Which again leads me to say that whoever killed him must have done it for personal reasons. I find it hard to believe that someone just randomly decides to go up to him and kill him on his trek home. This was a busy Friday night with a lot of witnesses, though I guess that doesn't say much since he still managed to disappear. Also again, his card and phone were never used so unless the perp only took cash (if he had any?) what would be the point in even mugging him? Just to kill? I know Columbus had a sketchy area, but Brian lived in the opposite direction from that. That's why I suspect something like drugs was involved, because that might have given Brian a reason to go to the sketchy area, if he was picking some up.

Okay so let's follow that line of thinking.

Which idea below or alternative idea do you lean toward?

1. Clint knew he was getting drugs for both of them but doesn't know what happened.

2. Brian and Clint met up to acquire the drugs and Clint knows someone else killed Brian (perhaps accidentally).

3. Brian and Clint did drugs together, Brian OD'd, Clint covered it up.

4. Brian and Clint did drugs together, Brian made a poor choice under the influence causing his own death, and Clint covered it up.

5. Clint and Brian did drugs and Clint did something violent that caused Brian's death.

What else?


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[MatthewTyler]

Okay so let's follow that line of thinking.

Which idea below or alternative idea do you lean toward?

1. Clint knew he was getting drugs for both of them but doesn't know what happened.

2. Brian and Clint met up to acquire the drugs and Clint knows someone else killed Brian (perhaps accidentally).

3. Brian and Clint did drugs together, Brian OD'd, Clint covered it up.

4. Brian and Clint did drugs together, Brian made a poor choice under the influence causing his own death, and Clint covered it up.

5. Clint and Brian did drugs and Clint did something violent that caused Brian's death.

What else?


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I'm thinking it's probably closest to #1 . I don't think Brian and Clint ever met up again that night. Brian was seen on video being separated from Clint and Meredith, and they were presumably seen on camera obviously leaving without him. If Brian was picking up drugs for both of them, I can't imagine why Clint wouldn't go with him though. Another thing that throws a hitch in my ideas is the fact that Brian had invited his brother out as well that night. I doubt he would have gone out looking to score some drugs with her brother there, so IF he did do this, it must have been on a whim while he was already there

 

[Brainy]

Here is something completely different... What if Brian is alive and Clint knows that he went away that's why he got a lawyer and never ever talked about it. On that day, they decided to go to a couple of bars and then Brian would leave forever, and Clint was aware of this. Something happened over time to Brian that he wanted to change his life and just go away. Any thoughts about this?


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[Deleted member 155000]

I'm thinking it's probably closest to #1 . I don't think Brian and Clint ever met up again that night. Brian was seen on video being separated from Clint and Meredith, and they were presumably seen on camera obviously leaving without him. If Brian was picking up drugs for both of them, I can't imagine why Clint wouldn't go with him though. Another thing that throws a hitch in my ideas is the fact that Brian had invited his brother out as well that night. I doubt he would have gone out looking to score some drugs with her brother there, so IF he did do this, it must have been on a whim while he was already there

Maybe someone there offered to sell it to him at another location.

What I don't get is why Clint wouldn't just reveal this though. He could just say Brian was looking to score some drugs from a guy he met etc...he wouldn't even have to mention whether he intended to use any.


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[Deleted member 155000]

Here is something completely different... What if Brian is alive and Clint knows that he went away that's why he got a lawyer and never ever talked about it. On that day, they decided to go to a couple of bars and then Brian would leave forever, and Clint was aware of this. Something happened over time to Brian that he wanted to change his life and just go away. Any thoughts about this?


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Yeah, we have discussed this at length if you go back through the threads. I just feel like it's wishful thinking on my part when I go down that trail.

I don't rule it out entirely, but it seems highly unlikely.


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[Brainy]

Clint could have promised Brian not to ever reveal what happened or were he went, and Clint took all necessary steps to distance himself from the public eye and from the law enforcement so he is not at risk of revealing anything.

The truth is... Clint knows something. It's either A. He knows what happened to Brian that got him killed B. He knows that Brian disappeared on his own accord.


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[Deleted member 155000]

Clint could have promised Brian not to ever reveal what happened or were he went, and Clint took all necessary steps to distance himself from the public eye and from the law enforcement so he is not at risk of revealing anything.

The truth is... Clint knows something. It's either A. He knows what happened to Brian that got him killed B. He knows that Brian disappeared on his own accord.


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Or he knows where Brian went but not what happened etc.


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[Brainy]

Yeah, we have discussed this at length if you go back through the threads. I just feel like it's wishful thinking on my part when I go down that trail.

I don't rule it out entirely, but it seems highly unlikely.


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I know it's been discussed, my thoughts went this way as I don't think Brian was involved in any drug deals or any other suspicious or shady activity that would put him at risk. He was a smart guy. He would be the perfect candidate to accomplish something like this. I think life may have driven him over the edge, and he decided to take matters into his own hands.

I think this scenario remains unlikely if we treat it as such. There have been many instances where a person has been presumed dead or was missing to be only found years later living another life somewhere else.


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[Brainy]

Or he knows where Brian went but not what happened etc.


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Yes, perhaps. I think he might have had knowledge that Brian planned to go away, but I don't think he was keeping in touch with Brian or had any ideas of what his disappearing would actually mean for Brian. Clint might have just served as the last attaching element to the life he was leaving behind, and he wanted Clint not to reveal that he had planned to vanish.


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[Deleted member 155000]

I know it's been discussed, my thoughts went this way as I don't think Brian was involved in any drug deals or any other suspicious or shady activity that would put him at risk. He was a smart guy. He would be the perfect candidate to accomplish something like this. I think life may have driven him over the edge, and he decided to take matters into his own hands.

I think this scenario remains unlikely if we treat it as such. There have been many instances where a person has been presumed dead or was missing to be only found years later living another life somewhere else.


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Right, those things have happened, but you'd have to go back through all previous posts to see all the ins and outs of the conversation about this. Among many factors, I don't think he'd choose to disappear in a place where there are so many cameras when he could just as easily disappear from a more remote setting.

Because his girlfriend and brother stayed open to the idea he may have left, I have kept the possibility in mind. But the odds are against that. And it would have to be one heck of a plan to disappear and start a new life untraced.


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[Brainy]

Right, those things have happened, but you'd have to go back through all previous posts to see all the ins and outs of the conversation about this. Among many factors, I don't think he'd choose to disappear in a place where there are so many cameras when he could just as easily disappear from a more remote setting.

Because his girlfriend and brother stayed open to the idea he may have left, I have kept the possibility in mind. But the odds are against that. And it would have to be one heck of a plan to disappear and start a new life untraced.


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I don't think the presence of cameras is any relevant than their absence. I think people tend to focus on this, leaving behind the fact that it really didn't matter when and how it happened. If the person had the intention, that person could work it out. Again, I am not working investigating this case, I don't have any knowledge regarding where and what cameras were actually functioning. Keep in mind that technology malfunctions all the time. I used to work at a hotel. One time that did use the cameras for some reason only to discover that it had stopped working 2 days prior and nobody had any idea. So my point is, whether cameras caught him or not is not that relevant. The fact is, he wasn't at the bar.


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[Brainy]

I don't think odds are against him being alive. There is no evidence to suggest that he is alive or dead. Everything is just speculation due to lack of evidence.


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[dotr]

If Brian was well acquainted with the bar,he may also have been chummy with some people who worked there, who, knowing he was a decent guy, casually told him about camera placement and potential blind spots.
Brian may have noted them anyway just out of curiosity- so, what if he slipped out with a girl, a friend or otherwise, but did it surreptitiously so as not to be recorded on cctv?
speculation, imo.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I don't think odds are against him being alive. There is no evidence to suggest that he is alive or dead. Everything is just speculation due to lack of evidence.


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I don't discount that he could be alive. I truly hope he is. And if so, I hope he reconnects with his remaining family at some point.

I'd love to hear how his life worked out--what identity he assumed and how he made ends meet. And I hope that he got support where he needed it if he left due to high stress.

But, even though I can imagine some of that, in my opinion, the odds of him taking off and successfully relocating and never contacting anyone are lower than other alternatives.

I'll hope though.


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[Brainy]

I don't discount that he could be alive. I truly hope he is. And if so, I hope he reconnects with his remaining family at some point.

I'd love to hear how his life worked out--what identity he assumed and how he made ends meet. And I hope that he got support where he needed it if he left due to high stress.

But, even though I can imagine some of that, in my opinion, the odds of him taking off and successfully relocating and never contacting anyone are lower than other alternatives.

I'll hope though.


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If Brian is alive, I would prefer to just let him go and let him be. I hope he is doing well if he is alive, but I don't think it's good to find out if he is alive or not based on curiosity alone. If I found out tomorrow that Brian is alive, I should respect his privacy and focus my effort on other people who have gone missing that may be in danger.

It is not for me to decide whether he should reconnect with his family. I certainly hope that he would have the support system to be an uplifting presence in his life. However, itis his family and therefore it should be his decision to reconnect with them. If Brian is alive.... It's been over a decade, it's safe to say he wanted away from his family and people that knew him. If he disappeared on his own accord, he may have wanted a different life and I don't find it bad necessarily. Some may argue that it's a horrible thing to do to your loved ones, but I can't say that Brian did a bad thing based on the limited information available to me. I don't know what he was going through at the time so I can't hold the accountability of ascribing him what I hold as bad or negative. We live in a fallible world where people have real problems and difficulties and it's easy to jump to conclusions sitting on the other end of the screen.


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