OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #4

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ShamelessObserver said:
No further updates on this case?? I genuinely think he made it out of the building that night. Before reading the fantastic content and info on this forum, I was convinced he never did....
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I'm just the opposite. I originally figured he was murdered in the bar or outside and then disposed of in a dumpster or shallow grave, but after considering all angles, I'm convinced he died accidentally in the construction area and was then inadvertantly buried or entombed.
 
Ozoner said:
I'm just the opposite. I originally figured he was murdered in the bar or outside and then disposed of in a dumpster or shallow grave, but after considering all angles, I'm convinced he died accidentally in the construction area and was then inadvertantly buried or entombed.
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Fair enough. I was the same initially regarding the construction zone, but now I think differently. I think he went through the door beneath the CCTV cam and made his way to a vehicle outside.
 
ShamelessObserver said:
I also think certain people most likely knew where he was going, or what he was going for but wont say.
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I bought into the died-in-an-accident-in-the-complex-and-is-still-there theory around 2 hours into my study of the case. First, you learn that he seemed not to have left the building and was never heard from again since last seen just outside UTS. It becomes evident that he had suffered a tough loss but had every reason to live. Then, you find out he was drunk. Then, you find out there was an active construction area mere feet from where he was last seen, characterized as 'completely dug up'. And it turns out, the lead detective surmises that Brian entered the construction area! And there'd been a stench reported in the building after the disappearance. You need not be Sherlock Holmes to put this one together. No need to conjure up sex on the down low, drug use, bad blood, a robbery or other mysterious goings on for a motive for a homicide without a body or a trace or a used credit card or a squealer. Just a dumb accident and a botched search. Ultimately, just a very simple case that didn't get closed. We won't know how the body got hidden until the remains are found.
 
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itsrak said:
No need to conjure up sex on the down low, drug use, bad blood, a robbery or other mysterious goings on for a motive for a homicide without a body or a trace or a used credit card or a squealer. Just a dumb accident and a botched search. Ultimately, just a very simple case that didn't get closed. We won't know how the body got hidden until the remains are found.
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This simplistic theory (while obviously can’t be ruled out) would involve cadaver dogs from Columbus Police Department AND Randy Shaffer’s own hired cadaver dogs COMPLETELY missing the scent.

It has also been reported that the construction area was not difficult to search, thus why law enforcement has mostly entirely dismissed the accident-in-the-construction-area-theory.

Then there’s the pesky matter of his phone pinging in Hilliard.

I’m firmly in the Brian left the bar alive camp. Where or how long? Well, that’s why we’re here.
 
Falkner77 said:
This simplistic theory (while obviously can’t be ruled out) would involve cadaver dogs from Columbus Police Department AND Randy Shaffer’s own hired cadaver dogs COMPLETELY missing the scent.

It has also been reported that the construction area was not difficult to search, thus why law enforcement has mostly entirely dismissed the accident-in-the-construction-area-theory.

Then there’s the pesky matter of his phone pinging in Hilliard.

I’m firmly in the Brian left the bar alive camp. Where or how long? Well, that’s why we’re here.
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No one would dispute that he left the bar. But there is *zero* evidence that he left the building housing the bar (or even that he was alive past ~ 2am-ish). And there is evidence that suggests he may not have - video evidence, stench and arguably the phone pings CPD paid Cingular for, that showed the phone remained in Columbus in April 2006, potentially on his body in the complex.

I would argue that use of dogs (unreliable) is why the search failed. Had they turned a shovel full or two of dirt in the completely dug up construction area..... And the Hilliard ping - Cingular concluded it may well have been a system glitch. They know better than I.
 
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itsrak said:
No one would dispute that he left the bar. But there is *zero* evidence that he left the building housing the bar (or even that he was alive past ~ 2am-ish). And there is evidence that suggests he may not have - video evidence, stench and arguably the phone pings CPD paid Cingular for, that showed the phone remained in Columbus in April 2006, potentially on his body in the complex.

I would argue that use of dogs (unreliable) is why the search failed. Had they turned a shovel full or two of dirt in the completely dug up construction area..... And the Hilliard ping - Cingular concluded it may well have been a system glitch. They know better than I.
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Yes, Cingular has already stated that the ringing/pinging was most likely the result of the attempted call to Brian's phone bouncing to the Hilliard tower because the tower that had previously pinged Brian's phone was busy (which is not at all surprising for September in a college town). This is apparently a fairly routine glitch.
 
Falkner77 said:
And as for the intimation from “Clint’s” attorney to Don Corbett that he’s led to believe Brian is alive (as of 2008) ?
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The guy is the attorney for someone whose been under a cloud of suspicion related to the case. Do you think he's going to say that he thinks Brian is dead? He's doing his job, simple as that. There's no reason to think that he has any inside information. It's called smoke and mirrors. That's how defense attorneys roll.
 
Yeah, that was just 'attorney speak' - putting the ball back in their court, cuz if CPD/PI maintains Brian is alive, then the client Mr. Florence can't hardly in any way be involved in or knowledgeable of any supposed homicide...

Falkner, I'd encourage you to provide more detail - evidence, speculation/hypothesis, whatever - on your theory that Brian made it out of the complex alive. What happened after that in your view?
 
itsrak said:
Falkner, I'd encourage you to provide more detail - evidence, speculation/hypothesis, whatever - on your theory that Brian made it out of the complex alive. What happened after that in your view?
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I don’t have any evidence of much per se - I’m just a joe-shmo on a message board who’s read up on most publicly available content and listened to nearly every podcast on the case.

I remain inclined to believe he left the building because of the convergence of events that would have needed to happen for him to accidentally die in the construction zone and become un-findable:

1. He disappeared from Clint/Meredith/Amber/Brightan/other (per Kelly) med students’ view who were out with him
2. He accidentally fell and died in a manner in which no blood was spilled or could be detected.
3. He came to rest in a position in which it was easy to be covered up or missed in an expansive search by law enforcement/construction.
4. Cadaver dogs missed his scent entirely upon searches from CPD and Randy Shaffer. On the surface this is the most likely theory logically speaking, thus why I can’t imagine law enforcement (“botched search“ or not) would have just quickly scanned the area then moved on never to entertain the idea again. I’m sure they don’t want to admit they were wrong, but Hurst seems to with near certainty rule this out for one reason or another. In current times it's easy and justifiable to blame law enforcement for a lot, but I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt that their search efforts were thorough.

Another thing - Mr. Florence openly stated on Dateline that they “opened a tab and did 3, 4, 5 shots of liquor” just at Ugly Tuna to start the night around 9:30. I don’t know about you guys, but even in the peak of my drinking powers in college if I had anything more than 5-6 shots, I’d be headed for blackout city assuming the booze kept flowing, with judgment completely impaired. Who knows how much more they could have had at Short North Tavern or Brothers downtown? He could have met more girls at those bars (Clint smiled in saying Brian was “doing his usual thing” flirting with girls), gotten some phone numbers and set the table for a late night rendezvous, or a score of some drugs or both.

As a former OSU student myself during that time, if you went anywhere south of Gateway, the 7/11 across the way or perhaps Luckys bar you were asking for trouble walking alone around 8th/9th Avenue. I believe there is a theoretical way for him to not be seen on CCTV if he went out the construction area and started down the path of 9th Avenue & Indianola (or towards Wendy's where his scent was picked up?). He could have walked a very long way from that point in the Columbus area, thus rendering the nearby dumpster searches useless.

I’ve already stated my beliefs on Clint’s suspicious (legally smart or not) behavior. If he was drinking every step of the way with Brian that night - how can anything he say (or not say) be taken seriously? I believe he does remember a fragment of something that night about Brian making certain plans, which was clearly enough reason to lawyer up and stop cooperating.

Most likely to me is Brian was mugged/murdered/kidnapped/coerced on a walk in the rough neighborhoods of 7th/8th/9th/Indianola then disposed of in a dumpster/trunk/yard. Maybe Clint threatened to spill the beans to Alexis of Brian’s promiscuity and that sent Brian down the path to start an after party early or leave in a rage. They allegedly got in a drunk argument that night and as well on St Patrick’s day a couple weeks prior.

He could have had a drug-induced psychosis, amnesia episode, or overdose of some sort in the company of a stranger. Brian could have had plans to abandon it all that weekend as a result of his mom/depression, secret unhappiness with Alexis, possible questions about sexuality, and/or tension with Randy over finishing medical school. Maybe he did so that night in a drunken stupor or the next morning after waking up from a one night stand (or kept the party going?).

The phone ping in Hilliard can not be ignored - it has not universally been confirmed to be a glitch. A killer could have moved or relocated to that area. The 2017 Italy medical school Hotmail ping can not be ignored either. Probably a hack but who knows?

TLDR: IMO he’s not in the building - likely foul play nearby but anything remains possible.
 
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Great writeup, Falkner. I think we can all agree that there are a number of possibilities on the table, but a paucity of verified evidence to rule anything in or out. It's always nice to hear different perspectives.

For no particular reason, I've always found myself leaning towards the "Brian left the bar that night" story, but I don't see any good rationale for why Hurst has entirely ruled out the construction site theory. I would love for the building to be searched more thoroughly with modern technology. A lot of brainpower and man-hours have gone into solving this case, but those efforts have been far too widespread. Rather than chasing theories, a fact-based approach is the fastest route to solving the case. That approach starts with ruling out the last place Brian was seen, which IMO hasn't been justifiably excluded. Once we rule that out, we can all focus on other theories.

The case is ice cold, and there seems to be very little movement from CPD. At this rate, the only ways that this case gets solved are:
1. Brian is found somewhere, dead or alive, after over a decade without a single sighting. Not likely;
2. Somebody who knows something randomly decides to speak up. It's been 14 years and we haven't heard a peep. So, again, unlikely;
3. We find a random clue. Again, 14 years of nothing. Unlikely;
4. CPD tries something new.

I understand that CPD has many missing persons cases and only a certain amount of manpower. I don't mean to disparage them. Today's detectives are trying to solve a case based on botched police work from 16 years ago, so we are grateful for any time and energy they can offer.
 
juan1 said:
Great writeup, Falkner. I think we can all agree that there are a number of possibilities on the table, but a paucity of verified evidence to rule anything in or out. It's always nice to hear different perspectives.

For no particular reason, I've always found myself leaning towards the "Brian left the bar that night" story, but I don't see any good rationale for why Hurst has entirely ruled out the construction site theory. I would love for the building to be searched more thoroughly with modern technology. A lot of brainpower and man-hours have gone into solving this case, but those efforts have been far too widespread. Rather than chasing theories, a fact-based approach is the fastest route to solving the case. That approach starts with ruling out the last place Brian was seen, which IMO hasn't been justifiably excluded. Once we rule that out, we can all focus on other theories.

The case is ice cold, and there seems to be very little movement from CPD. At this rate, the only ways that this case gets solved are:
1. Brian is found somewhere, dead or alive, after over a decade without a single sighting. Not likely;
2. Somebody who knows something randomly decides to speak up. It's been 14 years and we haven't heard a peep. So, again, unlikely;
3. We find a random clue. Again, 14 years of nothing. Unlikely;
4. CPD tries something new.

I understand that CPD has many missing persons cases and only a certain amount of manpower. I don't mean to disparage them. Today's detectives are trying to solve a case based on botched police work from 16 years ago, so we are grateful for any time and energy they can offer.
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I'd bet that Hurst, before he retired, felt some political pressure to push the narrative that there is no chance that Brian died in the complex, which was built by and is owned by OSU. The notion that Brian's remains might be on the property would not be welcomed by CPD, OSU, or by Hurst himself. I think that is why in the last podcast interview he was all 'absolutely not' about chances Brian's remains are in the complex. When I listened to him say that, my eyes rolled and I felt disgust.

I find it so strange that they ran dogs (unreliable) through the property (obviously indicating they thought there was a chance that Brian might be found there). Yet, as far as I know, no one ever moved even a single shovel full of dirt in the 'completely dug up' construction area that Hurst himself speculated Brian may well have entered.

If I understand correctly, Randy Shaffer also ran dogs through the property. He too must have thought there was some chance that Brian was in there. Sad thought. Also, he must not have had full confidence in CPD's having run dogs through. I wonder if Randy ever sought to get any digging done in the construction area.....
 
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This interview of the late Randy Shaffer was posted on these boards years ago - but there are SO MANY interesting tidbits on Clint, the infuriating lack of urgency by CPD and other aspects of the situation. This is easily one of the most insightful resources on the case.

Missing Pieces Episode 64 Archive

  • "He was kind of anxious to go out with one of his buddies, I guess you call him a buddy" (re: Clint)
  • "He would study maybe 2 o'clock in the till 8 or 9 o'clock in the morning. He was a night owl. He wasn't getting much sleep. I do know that which I think it attributed a lot to what happened that night along with all the other things that went on too."
  • "....and there is even comments that Clint had said that Brian had a habit of smarting off. I don't think that's quite true. Some of the things he's said I just wonder about sometimes. He did searches with us and everything and he was fairly close friend of Brian but as Alexis had said before, he seems to get in trouble; not trouble- trouble, just maybe drink too much, that kind of nature. Clint said at times he would wander off and just get up and leave. Well, that happened maybe 2 or 3 times in a 6 to 8 year period. I mean big deal!"
  • "Brian, he would often like to kind of harass me a little bit. He got a big chuckle by pissing me off so to speak"
  • " ...So I talked to them (law enforcement). They said we want to bring our dogs in first and you can use your dogs as secondary. But we want to bring ours in first. When are you going to bring your dogs in? Tomorrow, that's as soon as we could do it but tomorrow my son could be dead and I called about four times."
  • TODD: That would almost make you believe, ok, they are trying to hide something. It leads to that.
    RANDY: "That's actually what I kind of thought of the Ugly Tuna"
  • "As for rumors, they (UTS) don't have a very good reputation. They say a lot of bad things happen at the Ugly Tuna Saloona."
  • "The tips were all bogus. Everything that came in.... Somebody called and said Brian and I were in cahoots to collect victim's insurance. I could not believe that and that was one of the questions the detectives asked me when I did a lie detector test because I was upset because his buddy Clint (Florence) wouldn't do one. "
  • "And both Clint and Meredith, the two people that were with Brian at first that night both got high priced lawyers probably about 3 or 4 months out. That's when we were doing an interview with Dateline. They were supposed to do an interview and both said we're not talking and got high priced lawyers. So I did a polygraph test supposedly police thought this would maybe convince Clint to do one if I did one but it didn't."
  • "Of course, if you talk to the police, they have a totally different aspect. They say they never know anything; they never solve anything"
  • "I think I started to tell you that when the guy (from Ugla Tuna) went berzerk like 'we've done everything we can to help you. We've talked to the police.' No, no, no"
 
So I actually reached out to this "commenter" from FB/Eqqusearch for clarification and it was more a creepy gut feeling that Randy knew something, rather than a belief that he was directly involved. She recalled Randy reciting the anonymous tip of "black men beat him up in an alley outside the bar and raped/burnt his ashes etc." tip during the search.

She also said that Randy mentioned receiving a tip Brian was bartending up in Michigan (and Randy asked this person to go WITH him, how strange?). However, Randy did NOT tell police of this tip because he had come to distrust them. Allegedly, just a couple days later was when Randy passed away.
 
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