OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #4

[Ozoner]

I have been eagerly awaiting this latest episode of the podcast and am glad we got further insight into what was really meant by the construction site being “completely dug up.” It doesn’t sound like there was anywhere someone could fall into and Hurst simply meant the floor was dug up. I had the impression there were deep trenches and such going very deep into the ground.

For me, if he says it’s not possible that he’s buried in the building, I believe him. Sounds like the place was a mess but nothing to get buried under and never be found again.


I think he may still be alive and did run off. It seems everyone close to the case interviewed so far in the podcast feels the same. As a far off spectator, who am I to doubt them?

Snipped.

A construction site change change quite a bit from one day to the next. Detective Hurst didn't see the site on the day that Brian disappeared; Hurst didn't see the site until several days later. There may well have been deep trenches or deep holes for footings when Brian disappeared; those holes and trenches may have all been filled by the time Detective Hurst saw the site.

Regarding the interviews, most of the people that have been interviewed so far could be expected to hope that Brian is still alive. In the case of Detective Hurst, he likely wants to believe that Brian made it out of the building; to believe otherwise would be to admit that his (Hurst's) initial search of the construction site was inadequate.

Who you are is someone with some distance from the case who can, one hopes, be more objective than the people close to the case.

If you start to identify with the people being interviewed, then you'll lose your objectivity (which is what seems to have happened to the host of those podcasts).

 

[Looking4Brian]

The decision to cancel credit cards in a hurry is a hard one to understand. I presume that includes the debit card for Brian's bank account as well? If anyone in my family were missing, I know that I would want to leave the cards as is, and would want LE watching those accounts like hawks.

Is there any chance that the cancellation of these cards was motivated by the belief that Brian very well could have just taken off, and a desire to prevent the $20000 ending up in his hands if so? Brian was not legally declared dead (still isn't), and there's never any guarantee that a court order attempt to redirect insurance policy funds is going to be successful. Could Randy have perceived some risk that a portion of the insurance payout would head to an account in Brian's name, faster than he could carry out a process to stop it?

I have been told numerous times that Randy did it out of fear that someone (that potentially harmed Brian) would have access to his credit/bank cards. I honestly don’t know if the insurance check was coming direct deposit or via check. I need to figure that out because if it was set for direct deposit it would explain why Brian didn’t wait for the check if he did leave of his own accord. I do know that Randy was able to get access to the money after Brian’s disappearance. I was told by John Hurst that Randy said he used the money to pay off Brian’s outstanding debt and I was told by someone else that Randy used all the money searching for Brian. I really don’t think Randy would’ve been able to get Renee’s beneficiaries changed. She was of sound mind and judgement when she made the decision to change her policy. I do have a lot of questions about Renee changing her policy to begin with. Did she know Randy would cut the boys off financially? Was there something going on to make her change her policy. Randy could have tried, but ultimately I think the judge would’ve ruled for Brian and Derek to keep their money.

 

[Looking4Brian]

Snipped.

A construction site change change quite a bit from one day to the next. Detective Hurst didn't see the site on the day that Brian disappeared; Hurst didn't see the site until several days later. There may well have been deep trenches or deep holes for footings when Brian disappeared; those holes and trenches may have all been filled by the time Detective Hurst saw the site.

Regarding the interviews, most of the people that have been interviewed so far could be expected to hope that Brian is still alive. In the case of Detective Hurst, he likely wants to believe that Brian made it out of the building; to believe otherwise would be to admit that his (Hurst's) initial search of the construction site was inadequate.

Who you are is someone with some distance from the case who can, one hopes, be more objective than the people close to the case.

If you start to identify with the people being interviewed, then you'll lose your objectivity (which is what seems to have happened to the host of those podcasts).

I have spent a great deal of time on construction sites and know how quickly they can change. However, there was no construction done at the site from Friday March 31, 2006 until the crew arrived back Monday morning. Shortly after Brian’s report was filed and CPD went to the bar. This is when they did a preliminary search, shut down construction, and got the cctv footage from Gateway security. On Tuesday the following day the first set of search dogs were taken in. Within the next 2 weeks there was another set of search dogs taken in and shortly after cadaver dogs were taken in twice. Before we ever started Comeback I 100% believed that Brian was deceased and either in the bar or died at the hands of someone he knew. John Hurst and Don Corbett both told me if I’m going to investigate this properly I have to forget what I know or think I know and start at the beginning with the facts. That is what I have done. The facts point to Brian making it out of the bar and either starting a new life or dying at the hands of someone he knew. Even though I believe he made it out of the bar doesn’t mean that I have totally ruled it out. I have been speaking to companies for the past 2 weeks trying to get the best price for ground penetrating radar. It is very pricey, but I’m trying to obtain the funds. Even if I do obtain the funds I’m not sure OSU will let me search the building. I definitely haven’t lost my objective, just investigating the things that I can with the resources I have.

 

[Looking4Brian]

First post here but have been lurking for a bit reading over the theories and possibilities. This case (along with the Maura Murray disappearance) have haunted me since I first stumbled across them earlier this year. It’s just scary how someone can vanish in what seems like the blink of an eye.

I have been eagerly awaiting this latest episode of the podcast and am glad we got further insight into what was really meant by the construction site being “completely dug up.” It doesn’t sound like there was anywhere someone could fall into and Hurst simply meant the floor was dug up. I had the impression there were deep trenches and such going very deep into the ground.

For me, if he says it’s not possible that he’s buried in the building, I believe him. Sounds like the place was a mess but nothing to get buried under and never be found again.

I too was intrigued by the info about the insurance. That is something new we haven’t seen in this whole story and opens up many new possibilities as to what happened.

While we all knew Clint lawyered up, I think his refusal to talk to the grand jury and other aspects of his behavior point to him knowing something. I know this was all speculated before but I’m now more convinced than ever that he knows so much more that he’s not telling anyone about.

And the rock solid alibi doesn’t seem as rock solid.

There was just so much interesting info in this episode that I am trying to get my mind around.

I think he may still be alive and did run off. It seems everyone close to the case interviewed so far in the podcast feels the same. As a far off spectator, who am I to doubt them?

I am now really looking forward to the next episode. A lot of useful info is finally coming out and clearing up some long-standing misconceptions.

Just great work all around. Thank you!

Thank you! I have been told so many times that Meredith gives Clint an alibi for the whole weekend. Obviously we see that is not the case. As far as the Grand Jury here is what I know. CPD had 5 questions written out to ask Clint. Clint and his attorney showed up for the Grand Jury meeting and the questions were given to the prosecutor And Clint’s attorney. Clint and his attorney then went in a private room. Shortly after Clint’s attorney came back out and said his client will not be answering the question. This tells me that Clint couldn’t answer No to all of the questions. I am not allowed to know the questions that were asked, but I did guess 2 of them correctly. 1) Do you know where Brian Shaffer is? 2) Did you kill or harm (not sure on wording) Brian Shaffer? I have been trying to get in contact with Clint and his attorney, I’m hoping for a response soon.

 

[itsrak]

I have spent a great deal of time on construction sites and know how quickly they can change. However, there was no construction done at the site from Friday March 31, 2006 until the crew arrived back Monday morning. Shortly after Brian’s report was filed and CPD went to the bar. This is when they did a preliminary search, shut down construction, and got the cctv footage from Gateway security. On Tuesday the following day the first set of search dogs were taken in. Within the next 2 weeks there was another set of search dogs taken in and shortly after cadaver dogs were taken in twice. Before we ever started Comeback I 100% believed that Brian was deceased and either in the bar or died at the hands of someone he knew. John Hurst and Don Corbett both told me if I’m going to investigate this properly I have to forget what I know or think I know and start at the beginning with the facts. That is what I have done. The facts point to Brian making it out of the bar and either starting a new life or dying at the hands of someone he knew. Even though I believe he made it out of the bar doesn’t mean that I have totally ruled it out. I have been speaking to companies for the past 2 weeks trying to get the best price for ground penetrating radar. It is very pricey, but I’m trying to obtain the funds. Even if I do obtain the funds I’m not sure OSU will let me search the building. I definitely haven’t lost my objective, just investigating the things that I can with the resources I have.

I'd be shocked if they'd let you search the premises, as I'd think it would potentially expose the university to big lawsuit if Brian's remains were found. Just listened to your new interview of Hurst. Kudos to you. He now says he definitely thinks Brian's remains are not on site. Sounds like maybe someone had a convo with Hurst. I note that he says the site was a 'mess' and concrete floors were not in and the then dirt floors were 'uneven' and the elevator was not in, just a shaft with dirt hole at bottom. Definitely a very active construction site at the time.

 

[itsrak]

Thank you! I have been told so many times that Meredith gives Clint an alibi for the whole weekend. Obviously we see that is not the case. As far as the Grand Jury here is what I know. CPD had 5 questions written out to ask Clint. Clint and his attorney showed up for the Grand Jury meeting and the questions were given to the prosecutor And Clint’s attorney. Clint and his attorney then went in a private room. Shortly after Clint’s attorney came back out and said his client will not be answering the question. This tells me that Clint couldn’t answer No to all of the questions. I am not allowed to know the questions that were asked, but I did guess 2 of them correctly. 1) Do you know where Brian Shaffer is? 2) Did you kill or harm (not sure on wording) Brian Shaffer? I have been trying to get in contact with Clint and his attorney, I’m hoping for a response soon.

So Brian and Clint had not one but two arguments that night?! First one so bad Brian went home. Then Meredith went to Brian's apt (is that right? - I had no idea she'd been at Brian's apt the night he disappeared) and got him (was Clint there too?) and they got back with Clint - and then had another argument at UTS, so animated that people nearby noted it but apparently couldn't hear what it was about? So Brian was involved in nasty arguments with Clint, and within hours permanently disappears? And Clint wouldn't answer grand jury questions?!

Well, I think I know who definitely knows what the arguments were about - Meredith. What were they arguing about, Meredith? And just how angry was Clint that night?

And now I have a better idea why Alexis' father stated that as to finding out what happened to Brian, all roads lead back to Clint. The arguing in the hours leading up to the disappearance. The refusal to answer grand jury questions....

 

[itsrak]

While we all knew Clint lawyered up, I think his refusal to talk to the grand jury and other aspects of his behavior point to him knowing something. I know this was all speculated before but I’m now more convinced than ever that he knows so much more that he’s not telling anyone about.

Well put.

 

[Looking4Brian]

The argument

So Brian and Clint had not one but two arguments that night?! First one so bad Brian went home. Then Meredith went to Brian's apt (is that right? - I had no idea she'd been at Brian's apt the night he disappeared) and got him (was Clint there too?) and they got back with Clint - and then had another argument at UTS, so animated that people nearby noted it but apparently couldn't hear what it was about? So Brian was involved in nasty arguments with Clint, and within hours permanently disappears? And Clint wouldn't answer grand jury questions?!

Well, I think I know who definitely knows what the arguments were about - Meredith. What were they arguing about, Meredith? And just how angry was Clint that night?

And now I have a better idea why Alexis' father stated that as to finding out what happened to Brian, all roads lead back to Clint.

The argument where Brian, Meredith, and Clint end up at Brian’s apartment happened on St. Patrick’s Day a couple of weeks before. They did argue at the Ugly Tuna Saloona on the night Brian disappeared. Meredith reported it to CPD, but said she couldn’t hear the context due to the noise. I asked Brightan about the argument as well and she said she did not hear an argument. With the argument on St. Patrick’s Day I have to question Clint’s motive to invite Meredith out with them the night Brian disappeared. Especially when I’ve been told numerous times that Brian did not like Meredith, Meredith wanted more with Brian, and Clint wanted Meredith. I’m not sure how mad Clint was that night, but I think Brian definitely had a reason to want to ditch Clint and Meredith.

 

[itsrak]

The argument


The argument where Brian, Meredith, and Clint end up at Brian’s apartment happened on St. Patrick’s Day a couple of weeks before. They did argue at the Ugly Tuna Saloona on the night Brian disappeared. Meredith reported it to CPD, but said she couldn’t hear the context due to the noise. I asked Brightan about the argument as well and she said she did not hear an argument. With the argument on St. Patrick’s Day I have to question Clint’s motive to invite Meredith out with them the night Brian disappeared. Especially when I’ve been told numerous times that Brian did not like Meredith, Meredith wanted more with Brian, and Clint wanted Meredith. I’m not sure how mad Clint was that night, but I think Brian definitely had a reason to want to ditch Clint and Meredith.

Wow. Almost sounds like a love triangle. Is it true that CPD forensics combed over vehicles and the Clintonville home of the professor where Clint and Meredith supposedly stayed the night of the disappearance?

 

[Looking4Brian]

I'd be shocked if they'd let you search the premises, as I'd think it would potentially expose the university to big lawsuit if Brian's remains were found. Just listened to your new interview of Hurst. Kudos to you. He now says he definitely thinks Brian's remains are not on site. Sounds like maybe someone had a convo with Hurst. I note that he says the site was a 'mess' and concrete floors were not in and the then dirt floors were 'uneven' and the elevator was not in, just a shaft with dirt hole at bottom. Definitely a very active construction site at the time.

I'd be shocked if they'd let you search the premises, as I'd think it would potentially expose the university to big lawsuit if Brian's remains were found. Just listened to your new interview of Hurst. Kudos to you. He now says he definitely thinks Brian's remains are not on site. Sounds like maybe someone had a convo with Hurst. I note that he says the site was a 'mess' and concrete floors were not in and the then dirt floors were 'uneven' and the elevator was not in, just a shaft with dirt hole at bottom. Definitely a very active construction site at the time.

Yes it was very active. I’m glad John went into detail about the way it looked and the searches done. I wish I would have asked him a couple of more things because he told me once they searched the hole for the elevator shaft as well as moved the piles of dirt. Most people involved with the case are adamant that Brian made it out of the building. On the other side of the elevator shaft hole was the back door to the Mad Mex restaurant. It has been confirmed by CPD that Mad Mex made a habit of opening the back door which helped with the heat in the kitchen. It was also verified that the back door was open that night. Employees at the Mad Mex said they were so busy that someone definitely could’ve walked through the kitchen without them knowing. The back door to Mad Mex is not on camera.

 

[Looking4Brian]

Wow. Almost sounds like a love triangle. Is it true that CPD forensics combed over vehicles and the Clintonville home of the professor where Clint and Meredith supposedly stayed the night of the disappearance?

It is true. Brian, Clint, and Meredith’s car were all searched. They also searched the property in Clintonville. I have been told numerous times they went over the property with a fine tooth comb.

 

[Gussified]

Most people involved with the case are adamant that Brian made it out of the building.

rsbm
Alive?

 

[Looking4Brian]

rsbm
Alive?

Yes they all believe he made it out of his own accord. This is where opinions differ on whether he met foul play or walked away from his life.

 

[itsrak]

It is true. Brian, Clint, and Meredith’s car were all searched. They also searched the property in Clintonville. I have been told numerous times they went over the property with a fine tooth comb.

I wonder where Clint and Meredith's phones may have been pinging from April 1-2... CPD looked at their cars. Did CPD look at their phones? Any OnStar or similar accounts or chips onboard vehicles...

 

[itsrak]

Yes they all believe he made it out of his own accord. This is where opinions differ on whether he met foul play or walked away from his life.

FWIW, which ain't much, I'm still not buying it. What are they going to say - 'Yeah, we think his remains might be on site, meaning we blew it'? AFAIC, either he's still in there, or Clint knows where his remains are. Or both.

 

[Gussified]

Yes they all believe he made it out of his own accord. This is where opinions differ on whether he met foul play or walked away from his life.

Do you know whether LE examined every container that left that building in the days following Brian’s disappearance? For example, band equipment cases, trash bins, crates, etc.

 

[psych-nurse]

It is true. Brian, Clint, and Meredith’s car were all searched. They also searched the property in Clintonville. I have been told numerous times they went over the property with a fine tooth comb.

The phone pings confused me a little. Did I understand correctly that there were THREE locations of pings? West side (no specific location), area of Lane and Kenny and finally Hilliard? I hadn't realized all this time the phone appeared to ping in different areas. I know that John stated that the technology wasn't as precise back then, but these three areas aren't so clustered to make one think different towers were flipping back and forth on a stationary signal. I'd like to know where exactly on the west side and Hilliard the pings were indicated.

Oh, one more thing...How would Randy have gained access to the money willed to Brian in order to use it on the searches? Brian hadn't been declared dead. It seems that money should actually still be sitting somewhere to this day.

 

[Rel7]

Oh, one more thing...How would Randy have gained access to the money willed to Brian in order to use it on the searches? Brian hadn't been declared dead. It seems that money should actually still be sitting somewhere to this day.

Good point. Unless there is some strange legal loophole we are unaware of.

On the construction site, I am sure Hurst and the rest of CPD consulted the construction team on what work was done, when, where and so on. I don’t think the fact that these sites change quite a bit was lost on them. I was also never under the impression work was done over the weekend which could conceal his remains if he had died there. All the stories I read were that they halted construction right as they were about to get back to work and Looking4Brian confirms this in a prior post.

Had that not been the case, I’m pretty sure the CPD would have had the construction company uproot everything and then some from the 31st on.

This episode also has me rethinking a statement Clint made at the time of the disappearance where he flippantly stated Brian was doing the usual thing of running his mouth or something to that effect. Why say that?

Then again, if he really was a problem and missing link, why hasn’t the CPD turned up the heat on him?

If there is something that rules him out, I’d love to know what it is other than he hired a lawyer. That’s never stopped the police before.

I do hope a search with radar can be done to rule out the construction site entirely. I’m satisfied with what Hurst had to say but the radar would be about as definitive as you can get in this case.

 

[embufum]

So looks like we are down another rabbit hole or are we? It seems as if Brian’s phone was was pretty busy pinging after he went missing. I’m not 100% sure if his phone was pinging a tower or CPD was having a signal sent to his phone or both? At some point it seems his phone was turned off but is this an assumption because of Meredith saying it went straight to voice mail? As I have said before I think it possible that Brian may have shut his phone off for a short time to avoid Clint. I also had a feeling that his phone was receiving calls after he went missing. I’ll admit that I was thinking this would have been right after Clint and Meredith left as I figured they where calling him on their way to Clintonville. If Brian was temporarily in an area were he was not getting a signal it would also go to VM. According to the phone company I called there would be no way of knowing which one.

When I first started looking into Brian’s disappearance I was trying to find clues that would lead me to believe he was alive. Then I thought maybe if I did the opposite and try to find clues that he was dead that would be a better route. There doesn’t seem to be any solid proof either way. His phone pinging is it’s not really proof he’s dead or alive but it does in my opinion prove that someone had his phone. I never thought that Brian‘s phone died because of the battery. Supposedly his phone charger was still plugged in at his apartment. A lot of people keep your phone plugged in when they are home. Brian had a flip phone and they are known to keep a charge a long time. There is really not much going on those type of phones that drain the battery. If his phone was fully charged when he left that night this phone would stay charged for days maybe weeks.

Brian’s phone pinged near Kenny and Lane so he was either hanging out near the campus or someone dumped his body along or near the railroad tracks imo. If Brian took off on his own I doubt he was hanging out in town with someone. I’m sure it’s possible but this would mean someone else was involved and possibly helping him. If foul play was involved then maybe his phone was on him and if the ringer was off the people involved never bothered to take his phone. I’d guess they would check his wallet for money but would probably ditch his wallet with the body. The phone would be the last thing I would take although I don’t think it out of the realm of possibilities. If Brian was killed I don’t think the people who did it would have been the smartest but I do think they knew the area well enough to get rid of a body.

I’ve said already that I think Brian was going home and I think he walked down Pearl St to avoid being seen by Clint. A piece of info I have leads me to believe I was right about Brian taking Pearl St. While researching some of Brian’s friends I found out about a guy who lived on King St. not too far from Brian. I do not know if Brian knew this guy but I do know that he was friends with at least one guy who Brian was out with that night. I’ve often wondered if Brian did make it to King St maybe he stopped at this guys house on his way home. This guy moved shortly after Brian went missing and he moved pretty far away. I personally know someone who knows him and this person told me that he was into some weird stuff. When I spoke to this person I never mentioned Brian at first because I didn’t want to lead this person in any way. I just asked what type of person he was. There is one other piece of info that imo could also tie this guy to Brian but this info came to me second hand so that person can fill in the rest if they choose to. All this added up imo makes it hard to believe that this is all coincidental but when it comes to Brian’s case I’m not surprised anymore.

 

[Ozoner]

Brian’s phone pinged near Kenny and Lane so he was either hanging out near the campus or someone dumped his body along or near the railroad tracks imo. If Brian took off on his own I doubt he was hanging out in town with someone. I’m sure it’s possible but this would mean someone else was involved and possibly helping him. If foul play was involved then maybe his phone was on him and if the ringer was off the people involved never bothered to take his phone. I’d guess they would check his wallet for money but would probably ditch his wallet with the body. The phone would be the last thing I would take although I don’t think it out of the realm of possibilities. If Brian was killed I don’t think the people who did it would have been the smartest but I do think they knew the area well enough to get rid of a body.

Snipped.

If Brian's body had been left out in the open, then I think it would have been found. If Brian was murdered, he was probably buried, burned, or put in a dumpster.

I don't believe that any 27-year-old could pull of a voluntary disappearance in the digital age without help from an older, more experienced person. It would be impossible without somehow acquiring the SSN of someone whose death hadn't been reported to the Social Security Administration, and there's nothing to indicate that Brian had the knowledge or connections to pull off something like that.