OH OH - Katelyn Markham, 22, Fairfield, 14 August 2011 - #1

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Anyone who professes to be Wiccan and in the same breath speaks of doing evil to another living thing, is not Wiccan.
"An ye harm none" is part of the Wiccan Rede....the Wiccan 'law' if you will.

"Bide the Wiccan law ye must, in perfect love and perfect trust; Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill: 'An ye harm none, do as ye will;' Lest in self-defense it be, ever mind the rule of three; Follow this with mind and heart; And merry ye meet and merry ye part."

I hope anyone that is not familiar with Wicca, Pagan, etc. takes the time to read a bit at the below links......sometimes we fear what we don't understand. :)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wicrede.htm

Here's another from the same site:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/paganism.htm

You make great points. I have known people who believe all disciplines and dimensions of thought...all are okay because it helps that person define their thoughts, feelings and actions in their own life. I would never judge what someone chooses to believe. But what is good in sleuthing is that if it is a valid point of view of that person, it helps to understand how they think and what their actions may be in certain situations. Through out the years I have been told by people to do different rituals on the full moon. ie if you want to find your soulmate...on the full moon....list the traits your are looking for....put them in a bowl....etc etc. Another one was getting together with frineds and burning pictures etc from a past boyfriend or one that you broke up with recently...it gets them out of your life. These were all things done as fun in our teens and 20's.... So it may have been important that her papers were burned on the full moon for some reason of thought that made sense to her or to both her and JC.
 
No, I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. I come to WS for rational case exploring. When I find out that a number of people are seriously leading literal witch hunts it depresses me, but after reading your post I can respect that. It might be an angle that I personally find ridiculous, but those people are entitled to that position and who knows...they might in fact be right. Coming away from the West Memphis 3 case it just seriously depressed me.

The details provided about Carter's behavior at the search seem very telling. I didn't want to suspect him at first because he was so forthcoming with media and police but at this point it seems a bit overboard.


Absolutely agree Michael..I am not on a witch hunt, nor am I making any accusations about the wicca connection. I was just fascinated by the posts on the facebook page and googled it. I have no idea who is and who is not involved in wicca, nor do I care. Its just an interesting piece of the whole picture, its not rumor or gossip, the friends admitted to being wiccans and defended their rituals. KM made a comment on the Satinist page wishing she could go to the "opening ceremony", its not gossip, its a public facebook page.
 
mine too!!!!!!!!
All I can say is WOW.
look at the date for the opening ceremony!

Do you think LE is aware of this?
Although, it could just be from her interest in art, nothing sinister about that I guess.
 
WOW!!!!! and note the date for the opening ceremony..

Yes...interesting isn't it.

And it also places her at school and work on Friday until 10pm. I think friends said they saw her at the festival on Friday night as well. What time did the festival end that night 12?
 
Do you think LE is aware of this?
Although, it could just be from her interest in art, nothing sinister about that I guess.

I don't think it is sinister at all. I think she is an artist and supportive of other artist's point of view...no matter if she agrees or not.
 
I don't think it is sinister at all. I think she is an artist and supportive of other artist's point of view...no matter if she agrees or not.

Agree totally. I don't care what she believed or explored...........unless it opens up new possibilities to follow in search of answers to where she is, etc.

Like I stated earlier -- I am fairly clueless on Wiccan and Pagan and many religions, etc - but I am totally open to learning if it helps find her!
 
Im not sure why he keeps saying he is a crime fighter, cant figure him out, but he brings up good questions and he is the one that said they are Wicca peeps and actually called them vampires. There are other comments on there from a lady who defends wica, close friend of the family, and says she is somewhat of an expert (Im paraphrasing), so the wicca connection is true.

Everything regarding Wicca in the FB group seems to be deleted now. I'm the person who presented herself as knowledgeable in that field. However, I am most certainly NOT a friend of JC's family, whose behavior online I think is really egregious, and I have no idea what the Wicca connection is to this case or anyone connected to it.

My credentials, if you need them: I have a degree in Religion from Miami University and have studied Wicca/Paganism/Druidism extensively. For 20+ years I've spoken to churches, schools, law enforcement - in person, on television, in print, and on the radio (I was the special guest at Halloween for 5 years running on Mike McConnell's radio show in the 90s) - regarding Wicca/Paganism and the misconceptions about it. I also owned a metaphysical store in town for 7 years, until I got cancer at age 38 and had to close it down.

The FB poster who claims to be a detective said that once he heard there were "Wicca peeps" in the "circle" he began to trust no one but his "team" and added, "WTF." I challenged this, asking what he meant exactly, and saying if he were law enforcement he'd know better - because Wicca etc. is an old story for decades now, and LE knows all about it. I pointed out to him that a member of the Pagan community in Cincinnati who is also a psychic led police to finding a missing person in 2002 (Lon Dowdle). I said please let me know if you have any questions. He didn't respond.

For the record, there is no connection between Wicca and Satanism (two very different things), or between Wicca and occult crime. It's simply not part of the theology or the practices of that religion or of the larger group of Neo-Pagan religions of which Wicca is a part. These religions honor Nature and the gods and goddesses from the ancient world, and it's an extremely positive religion, based on joy and a sense of connection to the planet. There is no Satan, no evil figure in Paganism at all, thus no need for any rituals regarding such a figure.

I've attended literally hundreds of Pagan festivals all across the country for two decades, some of which I organized myself; I've given workshops and talks, created and conducted large group rituals, etc. etc. The only thing criminal that I've EVER, EVER witnessed amongst Pagans is the occasional enjoyment (which I don't share myself; I prefer scotch, haha) of a certain plant which can be imbibed in smoke form. And goodness knows that activity is absolutely widespread in mainstream culture as well! One of the biggest partakers I know is a conservative Christian Tea Party fellow. lol

No one can control what messed-up individuals call themselves religiously. But I've been at more than one Pagan festival where creepy men were bodily thrown out and banned for just being over-persistent towards women who'd said they weren't interested. In one case, the festival organizers called the cops. Pagans/Wiccans absolutely do NOT tolerate any such behavior, nor violence in any form. Many of them won't even eat meat! So hints of "sacrifice" etc. are ludicrous.

And for what it's worth, law enforcement - including a U.S. Marshall and Vietnam vet - play a very prominent role at once of the larger festivals I've been to, and they're honored every year in a big public ritual by the grateful community.

In short, Wiccans/Pagans are NOT a violence- or crime-oriented bunch, I assure you. Please let me know if you have any questions; I've heard it all before and nothing will offend me.

P.S. Also for the record, I am a skeptic and a big fan of science and provable results, so I don't believe in astrology, magick, most psychics, etc. I have been laughing a little (affectionately) at the "I see country roads, cornfields, rivers, water towers, old pickup trucks" - that sounds like something called "Ohio" to me. :)

This is not to say, however, that I completely dismiss the idea that some people can see what others cannot. I think that's sometimes possible, even if usually bogus. My friend "saw" where the missing man's body could be found in 2002, and she was right. She got the $10k reward offered by his family, too, because a judge established she deserved it.
 
Everything regarding Wicca in the FB group seems to be deleted now. I'm the person who presented herself as knowledgeable in that field. However, I am most certainly NOT a friend of JC's family, whose behavior online I think is really egregious, and I have no idea what the Wicca connection is to this case or anyone connected to it.

My credentials, if you need them: I have a degree in Religion from Miami University and have studied Wicca/Paganism/Druidism extensively. For 20+ years I've spoken to churches, schools, law enforcement - in person, on television, in print, and on the radio (I was the special guest at Halloween for 5 years running on Mike McConnell's radio show in the 90s) - regarding Wicca/Paganism and the misconceptions about it. I also owned a metaphysical store in town for 7 years, until I got cancer at age 38 and had to close it down.

The FB poster who claims to be a detective said that once he heard there were "Wicca peeps" in the "circle" he began to trust no one but his "team" and added, "WTF." I challenged this, asking what he meant exactly, and saying if he were law enforcement he'd know better - because Wicca etc. is an old story for decades now, and LE knows all about it. I pointed out to him that a member of the Pagan community in Cincinnati who is also a psychic led police to finding a missing person in 2002 (Lon Dowdle). I said please let me know if you have any questions. He didn't respond.

For the record, there is no connection between Wicca and Satanism (two very different things), or between Wicca and occult crime. It's simply not part of the theology or the practices of that religion or of the larger group of Neo-Pagan religions of which Wicca is a part. These religions honor Nature and the gods and goddesses from the ancient world, and it's an extremely positive religion, based on joy and a sense of connection to the planet. There is no Satan, no evil figure in Paganism at all, thus no need for any rituals regarding such a figure.

I've attended literally hundreds of Pagan festivals all across the country for two decades, some of which I organized myself; I've given workshops and talks, created and conducted large group rituals, etc. etc. The only thing criminal that I've EVER, EVER witnessed amongst Pagans is the occasional enjoyment (which I don't share myself; I prefer scotch, haha) of a certain plant which can be imbibed in smoke form. And goodness knows that activity is absolutely widespread in mainstream culture as well!

No one can control what messed-up individuals call themselves religiously. But I've been at more than one Pagan festival where creepy men were bodily thrown out and banned for just being over-persistent towards women who'd said they weren't interested. In one case, the festival organizers called the cops. Pagans/Wiccans absolutely do NOT tolerate any such behavior, nor violence in any form. Many of them won't even eat meat! So hints of "sacrifice" etc. are ludicrous.

And for what it's worth, law enforcement - including a U.S. Marshall and Vietnam vet - play a very prominent role at once of the larger festivals I've been to, and they're honored every year in a big public ritual by the grateful community.

In short, Wiccans/Pagans are NOT a violence- or crime-oriented bunch, I assure you. Please let me know if you have any questions; I've heard it all before and nothing will offend me.

P.S. Also for the record, I am a skeptic and a big fan of science and provable results, so I don't believe in astrology, magick, most psychics, etc. I have been laughing a little (affectionately) at the "I see country roads, cornfields, rivers, water towers, old pickup trucks" - that sounds like something called "Ohio" to me. :)

This is not to say, however, that I completely dismiss the idea that some people can see what others cannot. I think that's sometimes possible, even if usually bogus. My friend "saw" where the missing man's body could be found in 2002, and she was right. She got the $10k reward offered by his family, too, because a judge established she deserved it.

Good information..thank you!!
 
Wow. It came through to my phone that JC's aunt KK behaved ridiculously to me in the FB group, and claimed I was "friends" with this "detective" person whom I was in fact arguing with. She said no one would answer my question (one question, very politely worded, the only one I've asked) and basically told me to shove it. That's nice. Way to win support. Way to make your boy look pure as the driven snow.

But of course it's all deleted now, so I can't respond. They're really something over there.
 
Wow. It came through to my phone that JC's aunt KK behaved ridiculously to me in the FB group, and claimed I was "friends" with this "detective" person whom I was in fact arguing with. She said no one would answer my question (one question, very politely worded, the only one I've asked) and basically told me to shove it. That's nice. Way to win support. Way to make your boy look pure as the driven snow.

But of course it's all deleted now, so I can't respond. They're really something over there.

Well that is crazy. I hope that there is a family member or friend of theirs that can speak some sense to the group. They shouldn't be burning any bridges or turning anyone off from their main goal of finding KM. I'm not seeing character assaults in any of the questions that anyone is asking...I'm seeing valid questions of times and events that happened. If they would just answer the questions then everyone would move on....it is the point of not finding out the information that leads to assumptions or speculating.
 
Wow. It came through to my phone that JC's aunt KK behaved ridiculously to me in the FB group, and claimed I was "friends" with this "detective" person whom I was in fact arguing with. She said no one would answer my question (one question, very politely worded, the only one I've asked) and basically told me to shove it. That's nice. Way to win support. Way to make your boy look pure as the driven snow.

But of course it's all deleted now, so I can't respond. They're really something over there.

KK did the same thing to Bill Cunningham from 700WLW they seem like an angry bunch of people unless you are on their band wagon....
 
I had to work last night but heard about the breaking news. Any news this afternoon as to whether these items belonged to her or not?

Listen, I didn't want to mention this because I have so little info to go on but my daughter knows a friend of Katelyn's. This friend last night told my daughter that she thinks the perpetrator is an ex-boyfriend of Katelyn's and that this ex was really "crazy"! She also told my daughter that JC was really nuts about Katelyn and that she didn't think he was behind the disappearance. I told my daughter, how can this ex be involved...she and JC have been together for the past 6 yrs. or so. And wouldn't JC have tossed out this ex's name by now as a possible suspect?

Actually, it was my daughter who told me about Katelyn's disappearance before it became a big news item. I didn't think much of it at the time until I saw the first news article about it on the internet.

I'm still trying to wake up but I'll try to get more info. out of her later today.
 
..........
Did anyone else notice that he is wearing an engagement ring--I've heard them called "Man-gagement rings" ? ............

Columbo, I noticed that back a ways....wondered what was with that....Mangagement rings?? LOL sorry that struck me funny...actually now I think about it, have heard of those.
Heck you can barely get some men to wear their wedding bands!
 
Wow. It came through to my phone that JC's aunt KK behaved ridiculously to me in the FB group, and claimed I was "friends" with this "detective" person whom I was in fact arguing with. She said no one would answer my question (one question, very politely worded, the only one I've asked) and basically told me to shove it. That's nice. Way to win support. Way to make your boy look pure as the driven snow.

But of course it's all deleted now, so I can't respond. They're really something over there.

Can you still access that original facebook event page? i cannot, for me it says it doesnt exist. Is it still there?
 
Can you still access that original facebook event page? i cannot, for me it says it doesnt exist. Is it still there?

No, I get "page not found" when I try.

I have been SO NICE on there the very little I've posted. I've reserved my sleuthing and speculations for here, because I don't think it's respectful to do it there. But JC's sister actually said it was okay to ask questions and that's when I asked mine! Very politely! Now I'm a public enemy...??

If I ever find myself in JC's position, lordy, I can only pray that my relatives do NOT behave like his. They make it look ten times worse for him. If the poor kid is innocent, they're doing him a serious disservice.
 
There are various rituals used in burning, one of the main rituals in the burning of request papers or names of people who have negative influences.

A witch could write down the names of people who are causing them harm or negative actions in some way and burn the paper with their name written on it, thus breaking the tie between the burner (person) and the person whom they may have problems with. - The ashes are then sometimes disposed off in water or can be flushed down the toilet. This is not a curse, but more of a defensive practice.

I don't see much harm in this and even if there was a connection to Wicca between JC and KM and their friends, I don't think it's relevant unless it leads us to the location of KM or is tied in with her disappearance.

If she was practising as a solitary witch and wanted to perform a ritual by full moon, most witches would perform these indoors in this day and age, if she was part of a coven again she would probably perform rituals indoors, that's not to say she might have wanted to preform a ritual in an outdoor setting, of course that is possible too and she may have wanted to do that alone, or in a group coven depending on her practice. Witches also don't just do rituals at the full moon period although it is known to be favoured.
 
:waitasec: On my space she claims to be agnostic, who do not believe any deity exists.:waitasec:
 
Columbo, I noticed that back a ways....wondered what was with that....Mangagement rings?? LOL sorry that struck me funny...actually now I think about it, have heard of those.
Heck you can barely get some men to wear their wedding bands!

I forget where I first heard of Mangagement rings--maybe on "Today" ? LOL
 
Fiance: Items Found Don't Belong To Missing Woman
http://www.local12.com/news/local/s...-To-Missing-Woman/20mwIZQQp06EgWQ-gwkmPg.cspx

I must missed this part...
Everything she had was left behind - except her red blackberry


I must missed that part about blackberry...

snip
The search organizers tell us that the search team also found a phone battery, then a hoop earring and a black converse sneaker.


Katelyn's fiancee also says she didn't wear hoop earrings and her black converse shoes were too small, so he doesn't believe any of the items were hers


So shoe was found but not her size.....hmmmmmmm
 
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