OH - Kaylee Schnurr, 18 mos, raped & murdered, Cincinnati, 20 July 2005

[MistyGirl]

I just had to add that time after time, I'm reading on this forum about single moms meeting and letting their new boyfriend babysit or move in within months of meeting. These moms need to wake up!!!!! Their child needs to be their first priority! I just get sick to my stomach at what this idiot did to this precious little girl.

I agree and I am a single mom........but let's remember in this case mom was there......she was just down stairs doing the laundry and this sick SOB tried to rape her with her home ...she was just down stairs in the basement. I don't know if they lived together or not....just saying mom was there.

Very very sad.

 

[MistyGirl]

This mama was 20 years old and had a 18 month old baby so she probably was only 18 when Kaylee was born. Most likely didn't have much of an education or skill to support herself, much less a child. An unselfish adoption decision would have been a better choice here, but since that wasn't done, I believe the mom became a victim too.

Adoption may not have been a 100% perfect life for this child either...you honesty just never know. And just because this mother was 18 when she had Kaylee doesn't mean she was a bad mom or would not have been a good mom. I was 19 when I had my daughter and I have been a single mom for 13 years and no I am not perfect but it's possible for young woman to be good mothers. For all we know this was a good loving mother that had invited her BF over for dinner and ran down stairs to switch laundry and fold what was in the drier and thought she it will only take a few minutes...no harm would come from it. I am sure the guilt that this poor woman is going through is worse than what anyone of us can say about her. So until there are facts that she was neglectful towards her daughter or had some part in this horrible crime in my mind she is as muhc of a victim as poor sweet Kaylee. Kaylee is in heaven now and wont remember a thing, but mom will live everyday for the rest of her life re living what her poor sweet little baby went through and that she feels so guilty as a mother that she was unable to protect her....in my eyes that a pretty horrible hell to live.............I am sure much worse then this SOB will live in..............people who do what he did do not have remourse they are not sorry and they will never change...........the only reason the SOB is trying to kill himself is not because he feel sbad fo rwhat he did.but because he knows he will be in jail and wont be able to reoffend. Sick B@#$@^&

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I agree and I am a single mom........but let's remember in this case mom was there......she was just down stairs doing the laundry and this sick SOB tried to rape her with her home ...she was just down stairs in the basement. I don't know if they lived together or not....just saying mom was there.

Very very sad.

Its horribly sad, but honestly what difference does it make that mom was downstairs. The little girl is no less dead/tortured/absued/raped. Instead of inviting these men that they hardly even know to be even a teeny tiny bit in their lives, they need to get to know them more. I certainly don't want to add to this poor lady's pain, but gee whiz!

There are a lot of single parents out there. I think there are worse things in life than being "single."

 

[MistyGirl]

Its horribly sad, but honestly what difference does it make that mom was downstairs. The little girl is no less dead/tortured/absued/raped. Instead of inviting these men that they hardly even know to be even a teeny tiny bit in their lives, they need to get to know them more. I certainly don't want to add to this poor lady's pain, but gee whiz!

There are a lot of single parents out there. I think there are worse things in life than being "single."

There are worse things then being single I agree and I think most of us parents try everyday to make sure we do right by our children and keep them safe. I too think we single parents need to be very careful when bringing new people into our childrens life BUT what do you say to or about the woman who's own husbands the child 's own biological father who rape beat murder abuse them.....is this those woman's fault?

No one is perfect no one has a crystal ball to know what someone may or may bot do............in this case I only know what I read and unless they establish that the mother was some how neglectful to her child then I have a hard time point my finger and placing even a little of the blame on her.

There are cases where woman and men put the children in harms way by knowingly dating a sex offender etc and in thoses case I feel much differently then I do about this one.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

BUT what do you say to or about the woman who's own husbands the child 's own biological father who rape beat murder abuse them.....is this those woman's fault?

If a woman stays with a man who is abusive? Yes. Its her fault.

 

[Kan499]

Another article. http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/4767742/detail.htmlThis one breaks my heart when she talks about the songs she sang to her little one. It is the same song I sing to my son.

 

[Mabel]

I'm confused about how it is that the poor baby was raped and beaten for over 30 minutes and yet the mom says she ran upstairs the second she heard the baby scream. Wouldn't the baby have screamed the entire time?

I also don't understand how the mom could not be aware that the baby had been raped by this monster before. I've seen a baby that was raped, it's not possible not to notice.

I don't mean to criticize the mother, it's just that these two things don't make sense to me.

 

[MistyGirl]

If a woman stays with a man who is abusive? Yes. Its her fault.

I agree and I didn't say "IF" she stayed with him/her. But I know of a few cases where the father/mother has killed the child and that was the 1st time mother was aware of it etc.

I really don't want to get in a pissing match:truce: because I do see what you are saying and for the most part agree, but I feel bad for the mother in this case and I feel even more sorry for sweet little Kaylee. We are human and I for one think I am a pretty good mom but I make mistakes every single day but I do the best I can. Short of locking your child in aprotctive bubble is th ONLY way to make sure harm does not come there way. Other then that we try to make good choices an djudgments and keep our children safe....and NO not all of us do that there are some parents who nevre should have reproduced to start with. Like I have always said...you ahve to have a license to FISH, DRIVE, OPERATE A BOAT, CUT HAIR and the list goes on and on.....BUT ANYONE can have a child and that is SCARY.

 

[mysteriew]

Its horribly sad, but honestly what difference does it make that mom was downstairs. The little girl is no less dead/tortured/absued/raped. Instead of inviting these men that they hardly even know to be even a teeny tiny bit in their lives, they need to get to know them more. I certainly don't want to add to this poor lady's pain, but gee whiz!

There are a lot of single parents out there. I think there are worse things in life than being "single."

I am trying to decide what you feel a mother should do when she has a child. Give birth and then shut everyone (including husband/boyfriend) out of your life until the child is an adult? Not working, no visiting friends that you haven't known since childhood, the only company she should have is her female family and her child?
Sorry, but almost everyday you have to leave your child. (to go to work, meetings, church etc.) In this day and age, most families need a wife/mother to work for the family to exist financially. Not everyone has suitable female family members to leave their child with. Not everyone is still best friends with the little girl they met in first grade. Not everyone has suitable family/friends who are willing/able to babysit for a mother.
So for a mother (single/married) to have a life she will have to leave her child's side at times. In this case it was to go downstairs to do the laundry- she didn't even leave the house. Even family/friends in this case had noticed no problems with this . I don't know how she had missed the previous sexual abuse of her dau but I do believe that she did. (Maybe he had molested previously- but didn't rape until that night).
What I do believe is that this mother is not at fault, from what we know at this point. She was caring for her child, and with someone who she had found no reason not to trust. This B/F turned out to be someone she couldn't/shouldn't trust, but by the time she found this out it was too late.
I won't blame the mother at this point, because I believe that she was just trying to have a fulfilling life with her dau and things went tragically wrong.
The blame lies with the who thought it would be exciting to rape a baby. Then to beat the life out of her because she fought back. This mother will feel the loss/guilt for the rest of her life, merely because she invited the into the house to spend time with. But in reality- we can only control our own actions- we cannot control the actions of others, and we cannot know what thoughts/feelings that others have if they keep them hidden from us.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I'm confused about how it is that the poor baby was raped and beaten for over 30 minutes and yet the mom says she ran upstairs the second she heard the baby scream. Wouldn't the baby have screamed the entire time?

I also don't understand how the mom could not be aware that the baby had been raped by this monster before. I've seen a baby that was raped, it's not possible not to notice.

I don't mean to criticize the mother, it's just that these two things don't make sense to me.

I have lots of questions also!! I guess I'll wait to see what evidence comes out.

 

[butterfly blue]

I have read this I guess like so many others, with tears streaming down my face, I think of that darling little babe, please can anybody explain how dear God a man see's a baby in a sexually challanging way?
.
I think the poor Mother is going to suffer the rest of her life, it will always be full of 'if onlys' there will be birthdays, oh so many days that dear little Kaylee will be in her mind tearing her mentally apart.
.
As for the SOB, may his suffering never end, don't let him hang himself, thats a cop out. I hope he meets his match, & gets to feel the terror that baby went through!!!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I am trying to decide what you feel a mother should do when she has a child. Give birth and then shut everyone (including husband/boyfriend) out of your life until the child is an adult? Not working, no visiting friends that you haven't known since childhood, the only company she should have is her female family and her child?
Sorry, but almost everyday you have to leave your child. (to go to work, meetings, church etc.) In this day and age, most families need a wife/mother to work for the family to exist financially. Not everyone has suitable female family members to leave their child with. Not everyone is still best friends with the little girl they met in first grade. Not everyone has suitable family/friends who are willing/able to babysit for a mother.
So for a mother (single/married) to have a life she will have to leave her child's side at times. In this case it was to go downstairs to do the laundry- she didn't even leave the house. Even family/friends in this case had noticed no problems with this . I don't know how she had missed the previous sexual abuse of her dau but I do believe that she did. (Maybe he had molested previously- but didn't rape until that night).
What I do believe is that this mother is not at fault, from what we know at this point. She was caring for her child, and with someone who she had found no reason not to trust. This B/F turned out to be someone she couldn't/shouldn't trust, but by the time she found this out it was too late.
I won't blame the mother at this point, because I believe that she was just trying to have a fulfilling life with her dau and things went tragically wrong.
The blame lies with the who thought it would be exciting to rape a baby. Then to beat the life out of her because she fought back. This mother will feel the loss/guilt for the rest of her life, merely because she invited the into the house to spend time with. But in reality- we can only control our own actions- we cannot control the actions of others, and we cannot know what thoughts/feelings that others have if they keep them hidden from us.

All I'm trying to say is that single mothers need to be more careful than any other people on the planet. This woman didnt' know this guy well enough to bring him near her child. I think its fine for single people to date, but their kids don't need to be brought into it. They don't need to meet every Tom, Diick and Harry that mom wants to go out with.

 

[less0305]

I completely agree with you Jeana.....You don't whip out your checkbook and hand it over to a guy you're dating after the first couple of dates or even first few weeks or months of dating someone new....why on earth would someone hand over their child to someone they've known a short time or don't know well.

 

[TisHerself]

I'm confused about how it is that the poor baby was raped and beaten for over 30 minutes and yet the mom says she ran upstairs the second she heard the baby scream. Wouldn't the baby have screamed the entire time?

I also don't understand how the mom could not be aware that the baby had been raped by this monster before. I've seen a baby that was raped, it's not possible not to notice.

I don't mean to criticize the mother, it's just that these two things don't make sense to me.

Mabel I agree with you if he raped her before then there is NO way the mother does not know. The beating lasting for 30mins and she says she ran upstairs when she heard the baby cry. He said he beat her because she screamed when he tried to rape her so he beat her then raped her .something does not fit here.

 

[Amraann]

I am not saying this directly about this mother but all parents in general.

Married/Single or otherwise... If you do not have a safe environment to bring a child into this world then you should not have one.
I am tired of hearing "You can't watch them all of the time"
Or how parents should not have to give up their "lives" to have a child.
Yes, IMO they should have to.
If it means no more dating or dinners out then so be it.
Having a child is the most life altering experience and it adds a new dimension to the word "responsibility"
If it means you drive an old car and have old furniture and live on one income then that is what you do.
I know that many say that anything can happen .. and I agree but I also think that making choices about your child's safety can go a looong way even if those choices are limitting the parents social life.
Again this is not a bash on single parents ... Plenty of married couples are lousy parents too.
I would not leave any child in a room with someone I do not know or only knew for a couple of months.
The 30 minute sceanario doesn't sit well with me but after what this mother has been through I am not inclined to say anything negative about her without further evidence.

In a nut shell, having children means you sacrafice for their well being. Their wants and needs and safety come first. If that means you don't date until the child is 18 then Oh well...
If that is intolerable then possibly the parent should have thought of that before throwing their legs up in the air or work real hard on finding a solution that doesn't sacrafice their childs safety yet permits them some adult time.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I am not saying this directly about this mother but all parents in general.

Married/Single or otherwise... If you do not have a safe environment to bring a child into this world then you should not have one.
I am tired of hearing "You can't watch them all of the time"
Or how parents should not have to give up their "lives" to have a child.
Yes, IMO they should have to.
If it means no more dating or dinners out then so be it.
Having a child is the most life altering experience and it adds a new dimension to the word "responsibility"
If it means you drive an old car and have old furniture and live on one income then that is what you do.
I know that many say that anything can happen .. and I agree but I also think that making choices about your child's safety can go a looong way even if those choices are limitting the parents social life.
Again this is not a bash on single parents ... Plenty of married couples are lousy parents too.
I would not leave any child in a room with someone I do not know or only knew for a couple of months.
The 30 minute sceanario doesn't sit well with me but after what this mother has been through I am not inclined to say anything negative about her without further evidence.

In a nut shell, having children means you sacrafice for their well being. Their wants and needs and safety come first. If that means you don't date until the child is 18 then Oh well...
If that is intolerable then possibly the parent should have thought of that before throwing their legs up in the air or work real hard on finding a solution that doesn't sacrafice their childs safety yet permits them some adult time.

Mom???? Is that you???

LOL Dang girl!!! You go! I couldn't agree more.

 

[kahskye]

I completely agree with you Jeana.....You don't whip out your checkbook and hand it over to a guy you're dating after the first couple of dates or even first few weeks or months of dating someone new....why on earth would someone hand over their child to someone they've known a short time or don't know well.

Well said! I have a new neighbor that moved in recently w/ her 7 yr old dd. She's single and works nights as a singer/performer. Within 2 days, she had the teenage girl living on the other side of her babysitting. The little girl has spent the night at the teenager's home and sometimes the teenager babysits in the child's home, and brings friends over. While I know this teenage girl's family a little just from talking to them outside a few times, I can't imagine even leaving my 9 yr old w/ them. There are 2 teenage boys that also live there. I'm not saying anything has or ever will happen, but how can one take a chance of leaving their child w/ someone they don't know?

 

[kahskye]

All I'm trying to say is that single mothers need to be more careful than any other people on the planet. This woman didnt' know this guy well enough to bring him near her child. I think its fine for single people to date, but their kids don't need to be brought into it. They don't need to meet every Tom, Diick and Harry that mom wants to go out with.

I'm sure it was an inconvenient, but the laundry had to be done before this looser came along. I'm sure she had to use her cousins or friends in the past to help watch Kaylee. I'm sure this creep suggested he watch Kaylee while the mom did the laundry. This should be a red flag to other moms!!! Watch out for a new aquaintance who volunteers to spend time alone w/ your child.

 

[kahskye]

I am not saying this directly about this mother but all parents in general.

Married/Single or otherwise... If you do not have a safe environment to bring a child into this world then you should not have one.
I am tired of hearing "You can't watch them all of the time"
Or how parents should not have to give up their "lives" to have a child.
Yes, IMO they should have to.
If it means no more dating or dinners out then so be it.
Having a child is the most life altering experience and it adds a new dimension to the word "responsibility"
If it means you drive an old car and have old furniture and live on one income then that is what you do.
I know that many say that anything can happen .. and I agree but I also think that making choices about your child's safety can go a looong way even if those choices are limitting the parents social life.
Again this is not a bash on single parents ... Plenty of married couples are lousy parents too.
I would not leave any child in a room with someone I do not know or only knew for a couple of months.
The 30 minute sceanario doesn't sit well with me but after what this mother has been through I am not inclined to say anything negative about her without further evidence.

In a nut shell, having children means you sacrafice for their well being. Their wants and needs and safety come first. If that means you don't date until the child is 18 then Oh well...
If that is intolerable then possibly the parent should have thought of that before throwing their legs up in the air or work real hard on finding a solution that doesn't sacrafice their childs safety yet permits them some adult time.

:clap: The biggest responsibility given to one is their child.

 

[blueclouds]

My goodness. I still cannot believe the human race is capable of this. I hope the SOB DOES COMMIT SUICIDE!!!!!!!!!!!! I believe that when EVIL kills itself in this cowardly way, God just has the eternal hell of him "reliving this nightmare" in the other persons shoes... this little girl. So for eternity, he'll know the horrific pain & unimaginable torture he put upon this little baby. SO go for it buddy. Your eternal hell is awaiting.