OH - Ohio State University Rampage, 28 November 2016

[bluesneakers]

And John Hinckley was a radical Jodie Foster killer? And Sqeaky Fromme was a radical ? Killer? These people have issues and they assign their delusions with some glorious name.In their minds they are special

And Marc Lépine was a radicalized anti-feminist.

 

[K_Z]

So strange, one thing that i do not understand is why he did not try and convince the school to provide a place to pray?
The students there, or at least at his last school, seem to have been accepting of him, was there really open racism there, a university is one of the last places one might expect to treat somebody differently because of religion.
Was he interested in dating non-Muslim girls but was unsuccessful?
It is not uncommon to see cab drivers stop, whip out a little carpet, face east and pray, have even seen someone working at HD with a cloth over her head, presumably praying.. is it not possible to pray anywhere?
speculation.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...tate-attacker-on-the-first-day-of-school.html

BBM. OSU is a huge university, and has a lot of accommodations for various religions. There is both a Muslim Student Association, as well as a Somali Student Association. The student union (Ohio Union) has a large, interfaith prayer & reflection room, 2 meditation rooms and 2 ablution rooms. Artan was a student who had experience on a much smaller campus, so he absolutely should have know how to ask a simple question about “where can I pray?”

You have to seriously wonder why he didn’t ask those questions and seek out support groups? But no, it’s much better to complain to a news reporter than to find out the answers to “where can I pray?” That was a complete BS answer, IMO.

OSU is actually closer to his apartment complex than the community college he attended. There is a big somali and muslim population in that area. It’s extremely disingenuous and disbelievable that he was complaining to a campus reporter about “no prayer rooms” on campus, and never asked the question before the first day. Did he attend orientation? He had never been to the Student Union?? Really?

http://ohiounion.osu.edu/plan_an_event/view_event_spaces?room=27

Interfaith Prayer and Reflection Room

The colors in this room were chosen because they show no preference to any one religion.

This space also features two Ablution rooms and two Meditation Rooms.

By the way, the ablution bathrooms are to prevent/ avoid having muslim students inappropriately bathing their feet (and other body parts) in the handwashing regular bathroom sinks at prayer times. These type of accommodations are very expensive to install, and are used by a tiny minority of students, so the university installing ablution rooms shows a serious financial commitment to the religious desires of muslim students, IMO.

 

[dotr]

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/12/03/anybody-can-be-a-terrorist-ohio-a-hotbed-for-radicalization

[h=1]'Anybody can be a terrorist'; Ohio a hotbed for radicalization?[/h]

[h=2]Campus attack could be latest in a series of terror cases in state[/h]

“The fact is, anybody can be a terrorist,” said James Forest, director of the Center for Terrorism and Security Studies at the University of Massachusetts-Lowell.
The professor said research has shown a broad spectrum for how long it takes someone to become radicalized. Someone living a seemingly normal life can be “derailed” in a matter of days or weeks.
Citing Artan, whose act apparently had little foreshadowing, Forest said: “How could you identify this person on the street as a potential threat?”

 

[katydid23]

Ali Artan maybe?

Or OSU rampage attacker?

I accidentally called him a 'shooter.' I know his name but that is not what the question was that I was replying to.

 

[human]

BBM. OSU is a huge university, and has a lot of accommodations for various religions. There is both a Muslim Student Association, as well as a Somali Student Association. The student union (Ohio Union) has a large, interfaith prayer & reflection room, 2 meditation rooms and 2 ablution rooms. Artan was a student who had experience on a much smaller campus, so he absolutely should have know how to ask a simple question about “where can I pray?”

You have to seriously wonder why he didn’t ask those questions and seek out support groups? But no, it’s much better to complain to a news reporter than to find out the answers to “where can I pray?” That was a complete BS answer, IMO.

OSU is actually closer to his apartment complex than the community college he attended. There is a big somali and muslim population in that area. It’s extremely disingenuous and disbelievable that he was complaining to a campus reporter about “no prayer rooms” on campus, and never asked the question before the first day. Did he attend orientation? He had never been to the Student Union?? Really?

http://ohiounion.osu.edu/plan_an_event/view_event_spaces?room=27



By the way, the ablution bathrooms are to prevent/ avoid having muslim students inappropriately bathing their feet (and other body parts) in the handwashing regular bathroom sinks at prayer times. These type of accommodations are very expensive to install, and are used by a tiny minority of students, so the university installing ablution rooms shows a serious financial commitment to the religious desires of muslim students, IMO.

That seems like a very clean and respectful thing to do. I have been in public restrooms that make me ill. Feces sneared in walls. Toilets not flushed. Enough of that talk.

I think he was talking more about the fears that many Muslims and brown peoole have because of the increase in hatred which has resulted in some sad things such as the beatings to death like in Wisconsin .

I think he had issues related to his mental health. Who knows what they are. Hope they come out like that guy in Washington state

 

[katydid23]

And John Hinckley was a radical Jodie Foster killer? And Sqeaky Fromme was a radical ? Killer? These people have issues and they assign their delusions with some glorious name.In their minds they are special

Neither John nor Sqeaky made a prior religious pronouncement, about needing to avenge their enemies. Nor did they drive a vehicle into a crowd of innocent people, jumping out with a knife and slashing people in Allah's name.

Sqeaky was similar in that her 'god' was Charles Manson, and she did her evil deeds in his name and at his request. Much like what happened here, imo.

We have no evidence at all that Ali Artan had mental health issues previous to this violent assault.

 

[katydid23]

That seems like a very clean and respectful thing to do. I have been in public restrooms that make me ill. Feces sneared in walls. Toilets not flushed. Enough of that talk.

I think he was talking more about the fears that many Muslims and brown peoole have because of the increase in hatred which has resulted in some sad things such as the beatings to death like in Wisconsin .

I think he had issues related to his mental health. Who knows what they are. Hope they come out like that guy in Washington state

Have you seen any mention anywhere of him having mental health issues? I haven't.

 

[human]

Have you seen any mention anywhere of him having mental health issues? I haven't.

Exactly. We have heard nothing. It seems like everyone who is a mass type killer has had issues. Abuse. Witnessing abuse. Diagnosis of mental illness. On medication for mental health issues. I do not think people who are loved turn into killers

 

[bluesneakers]

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/12/03/anybody-can-be-a-terrorist-ohio-a-hotbed-for-radicalization

This is what makes it so scary. If we can't know from a week out - when can we? What can we do?

 

[K_Z]

I think it was incredibly irresponsible “journalism” for the campus reporter to interview a student with a litany of complaints about religious discrimination and lack of “accommodations”, and publish that in the campus “Lantern” publication as though it were truth.

To let that interview stand unopposed is unconscionable, IMO, and unethical. Sloppy journalism, at the least, and more appropriately, leftist propaganda that promotes a falsely victimized view of minorities. I can’t believe the University administration did not contact the publication editors to ask that information be included about the prayer accommodations for muslims they have generously provided on campus.

And I can't believe the editors of that publication would publish that without doing a few measley keystrokes of their precious journalistic keyboards to see what the University has already provided for their muslim students. But faux-indignation over imagined slights is so much more interesting than the truth, right?

University students, more and more, IMO, are being told "what" to think, not "how" to think. It's a very big problem.

Outrageously irresponsible reporting, editing, and publishing, that now reflects VERY poorly on the University as a whole, IMO.

I’m surprised the “Bias Response Team” wasn’t immediately dispatched. (Because perception “is” truth, nowadays, right?)

http://observer.com/2016/12/the-insensitivity-police-now-patrol-many-colleges/

 

[K_Z]

Exactly. We have heard nothing. It seems like everyone who is a mass type killer has had issues. Abuse. Witnessing abuse. Diagnosis of mental illness. On medication for mental health issues. I do not think people who are loved turn into killers

Radical islamic terrorism is not a problem of lack of love, IMO.

Artan had 100 people at his funeral. The mosques are full of people who "say" they want to prevent radicalization. Artan had every opportunity, every chance, that many never have. He was handed opportunity, freedom, education, other people's money, and a community of belonging, his family was even imported with him-- he had every opportunity, and a lot of opportunity that many American citizens don't have!

And still he was an ungrateful, simmering mass of imagined and manufactured islamic grievances that propelled him into a premeditated murderous "Sudden Jihadi Syndrome." I have no sympathy for him at all. None. I'm glad he's dead. He can't hurt anyone else, or take advantage of anyone else's generosity ever again.

 

[K_Z]

Neither John nor Sqeaky made a prior religious pronouncement, about needing to avenge their enemies. Nor did they drive a vehicle into a crowd of innocent people, jumping out with a knife and slashing people in Allah's name.

Sqeaky was similar in that her 'god' was Charles Manson, and she did her evil deeds in his name and at his request. Much like what happened here, imo.

We have no evidence at all that Ali Artan had mental health issues previous to this violent assault.

In fact, I'd argue we have a whole lot of evidence that he was completely competent, handling the stress of higher education extremely well, and was very functional, rational, and organized. In short, he was competent, and had he lived, he would have faced many, many federal and state criminal charges.

Personality quirks, and personality disorders (diagnosed or undiagnosed), are not mental illness. Certainly not in any legal sense.

He knew exactly what he was doing, he planned it out quite thoroughly, announced what he was doing, and why, and then carried it out. That it was a "bad" plan does not make it an act of mental illness. It just makes him a less competent terrorist, IMO.

 

[bluesneakers]

Radical islamic terrorism is not a problem of lack of love, IMO.

Artan had 100 people at his funeral. The mosques are full of people who "say" they want to prevent radicalization. Artan had every opportunity, every chance, that many never have. He was handed opportunity, freedom, education, other people's money, and a community of belonging, his family was even imported with him-- he had every opportunity, and a lot of opportunity that many American citizens don't have!

And still he was an ungrateful, simmering mass of imagined and manufactured islamic grievances that propelled him into a premeditated murderous "Sudden Jihadi Syndrome." I have no sympathy for him at all. None. I'm glad he's dead. He can't hurt anyone else, or take advantage of anyone else's generosity ever again.

He's dead, but what about the next one? Where is he? How much time do we have and what can we possibly do?

 

[human]

In fact, I'd argue we have a whole lot of evidence that he was completely competent, handling the stress of higher education extremely well, and was very functional, rational, and organized. In short, he was competent, and had he lived, he would have faced many, many federal and state criminal charges.

Personality quirks, and personality disorders (diagnosed or undiagnosed), are not mental illness. Certainly not in any legal sense.

He knew exactly what he was doing, he planned it out quite thoroughly, announced what he was doing, and why, and then carried it out. That it was a "bad" plan does not make it an act of mental illness. It just makes him a less competent terrorist, IMO.

The effects of abuse and other adverse childhood experiences cause trauma. It does no good to pretend that there is spontaneous radicalization. It is like saying flies come from spontaneous generation.

Just cuz someone has people at a funeral does not mean much. There can even be mourners hired to weep and wail at a funeral.

Hopefully people can tease out what are signs that anyone can become a killer.

As far as being grateful, think of whiny Elliot Rodgers. With borderline personality disorder, the void can never be filled.

Probably an injustice collector. Does not have to be real. They freak out over little things as well.

The more we learn, then we maybe able to nip this in the bud

 

[K_Z]

He's dead, but what about the next one? Where is he? How much time do we have and what can we possibly do?

Well, I have a lot of ideas and suggestions, but all of them are beyond the scope of what is allowed for discussion on this thread here at WS.

I think this kind of terrorist attack is entirely preventable.

 

[K_Z]

With regard to comments about Artan possibly being an "injustice collector", consider the impact of the class he was taking which REQUIRED him to identify and report on "microagressions" as a mandatory class assignment, on his already supposed "weak and traumatized" state of mind.

Maybe we should stop encouraging and allowing this faux-scholarly fantasy of "study" at the univerisity level, and call it what it really is. Because IMO, the highly impressionable, impulsive, and weak minds of some of the students just can't process this kind of intellectual dishonesty for what it actually is, and it's encouraging them to do all kinds of things that are illegal and "unwise." Critical thinking is all but dead, IMO.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

With regard to comments about Artan possibly being an "injustice collector", consider the impact of the class he was taking which REQUIRED him to identify and report on "microagressions" as a mandatory class assignment, on his already supposed "weak and traumatized" state of mind.

Maybe we should stop encouraging and allowing this faux-scholarly fantasy of "study" at the univerisity level, and call it what it really is. Because IMO, the highly impressionable, impulsive, and weak minds of some of the students just can't process this kind of intellectual dishonesty for what it actually is, and it's encouraging them to do all kinds of things that are illegal and "unwise." Critical thinking is all but dead, IMO.

I totally agree and it won't be long before there are safe spaces and cry rooms on every university campus in America to accommodate all the special snowflakes.

 

[human]

With regard to comments about Artan possibly being an "injustice collector", consider the impact of the class he was taking which REQUIRED him to identify and report on "microagressions" as a mandatory class assignment, on his already supposed "weak and traumatized" state of mind.

Maybe we should stop encouraging and allowing this faux-scholarly fantasy of "study" at the univerisity level, and call it what it really is. Because IMO, the highly impressionable, impulsive, and weak minds of some of the students just can't process this kind of intellectual dishonesty for what it actually is, and it's encouraging them to do all kinds of things that are illegal and "unwise." Critical thinking is all but dead, IMO.

The more we learn about the impacts of other's actions the better. We know from brain studies that elevated cortisol causes stress. People become hypervigilant because of their experiences.

For instance, some or maybe most children who have been abused go into stress state if someone touches them even accidentally.

The University of Minnesota used to have a program for victims of torture and such. Not sure if it still does.

For some ,as we enter the holiday season, it brings to mind how lucky we are not to live in horror. Just by accident of birth,

 

[K_Z]

"Elevated cortisol causes stress."

(That's rather reversed, IMO. The stress from the ramped up radicalized terroristic thoughts produces the artificial courage-- cortisol, and other endogenous catecholamines, necessary to plan and carry out a murderous terrorist attack.)

versus

Radical islamic terrorist mind set causes elevated speed MVA rampage and elevated butcher knife stabbing rampage.

Eliminate the opportunity for latent terrorist thinking and impulsive radicalized outbursts, and you eliminate murderous rampages by prospective terrorist candidates! Logic! Easy peasy. Chicken vs egg thing. IMO. No coddling, sheltering, or incubation of the egg = no chicken.

Plenty of people are under far more stress than Artan, and they don't accelerate a borrowed Honda automobile into a crowd of innocents, and then begin stabbing them with a butcher knife they bought for the purpose.

"Stress" as an excuse for religious based terrorist rampages is another form of apologist thinking, IMO. He knew exactly what he was doing, and why. He was competent and organized.

BTW, that repugnant "diversity administrator" at OSU that urged people to be sympathetic to the attacker who stabbed and ran over innocents is another profoundly damaged collegiate apologist who should be fired, IMO. She's profoundly disturbed, IMO, and should not have any access to, or influence over any aspects of impressionable students. Because we now know how intellectually and emotionally weak many of our university students are-- they can't reason or think critically for themselves.

So, those who engage in predatory exploitation of these intellectually weak and emotionally disabled students need to be dismissed, IMO. These poor, impressionable, weak minded students need to be protected in a safe space from predatory "diversity" administrators (and "diversity professors") who now demand that they identify and sympathize with their attackers.

Gosh, isn't that "Stockholm Syndrome??"

GMAB.

Come with me to a few middle east and african islamic theocracies for a few months, and I'll show you some "MACRO aggressions" against women and minorities in those cultures. I have some good stories to share some time. (And the aggressions are not at all subtle, I promise!)

<rant complete>

 

[katydid23]

He's dead, but what about the next one? Where is he? How much time do we have and what can we possibly do?

Well, we could cut down on importing young men from countries that have a history of terrorist connections. And we can find other ways to help support the refugee families. Maybe they should reintegrate into Muslim majority countries where they will feel more at home and at peace.

Maybe we could find better ways to vet the families we do open our borders to. And maybe we can be more transparent and not pretend that there are not issues with this situation?