VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[RAISINISBACK]

GWIV knows right from wrong. He even justified their thievery by saying they only stole from big companies. If he wanted to change why continue to be with the people you don’t want to be like? His situation wasn’t like an abused spouse where they believe they can change the abuser or at least stop the abuse by staying with them. For him, staying was the easy way to go with cheap diesel fuel and a built in babysitter.

If he wanted to change why continue to be with the people you don’t want to be like?

They were his family. Is there anyone in your own family that does things you don't approve of? Do you disown them and cut them out of your life completely because they do something you disapprove of?

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

Was GW4 offered a plea deal? I thought I heard Parker ask that and GW4 said no. Of course, I may be mistaken.

I don't know it for a fact but I believe Canepa wanted the info bad enough any of them could have cut a deal, or tried. Jake just happened to be first. I did find this though:

Asked how this kind of plea deal comes about — who initiates it — Allen says it depends on the situation.

“They’ll lay hints like, ‘Hey my guy might be able to do something for you guys,’ and then they have conversations about it, and it builds,” Allen explained. “So there’s not one side that starts or initiates it. It could be either one.”

‘Nobody expected this:’ Why a legal expert is shocked by Jake Wagner’s plea deal

FOX19’s legal analyst says he’s never seen anything like it.

www.fox19.com

 

[rsd1200]

With all due respect - criminals lie to their attorneys all the time. I believe he is guilty but I like to play devil's advocate and think "what is the jury thinking". I see so many holes in the states case I mean like just not complete. Does the jury? I'm an over thinker too.

Yes they do, and the same. Devil's advocate player and overthinker. Quite a few holes. I hope they have something more on G3. He's got a private atty who used to be a prosecutor. That's what everyone wishes they could get in a criminal trial.

 

[justtrish]

To get their plea deals. I think he approached Canepa, his first story was that George was not involved in any way, Canepa said I don't believe you, I know George was there, now give me the real story and I will take the DP off for all 4 of you and give your mommy 30 years. Think it over. Why did Canepa, having all that evidence, knowing that Angie was the driving force behind the murders gave her the 30 year deal. Jake made a choice. Mommy or George. He chose mommy.

Maybe you missed the conference call between Jake and Angie right after he pled guilty. They both called Chris N and he merged the calls so they could talk to each other. It was brought out in pre trial motions. That is when Angie lost all her privileges and soon after confessed.

JMO

The below is a copy/paste from Angela's court docket. Her phone and mail privileges were revoked on 9/16/2019. Jake plead in April of 2021. Angela pled in Sept of 2021 and her privileges were restored on 9/10/2021 so I don't know how she was able to call Chris N. She lost her privileges in Sept of 2019 for trying to contract Rita N before she pled on her charges in Dec. of 2019.



The Court finds that on August 6, 2019, the State of Ohio filed a "Motion to Suspend Privileges," requesting that the Defendant's phone and mail privileges be suspended as a sanction for violating an order of this Court that the Defendant refrain from all contact, directly or indirectly, with several persons, one of whom is Rita Jo Newcomb (Journal Entry filed on January 10, 2019). Having heard the stipulations and arguments of counsel, the Court finds that the Defendant has violated the order of this Court by engaging in several telephone conversations with Rita Jo Newcomb and by exchanging written correspondence with Rita Jo Newcomb; and the Court further determines that the Defendant's violation of the order of this Court warrants restriction of the Defendant's telephone and mail privileges, as hereinafter set forth. Therefore, the Court hereby revokes, in part, the telephone and mail privileges of the Defendant, Angela Jo Wagner, including incoming and outgoing correspondence by telephone and mail, except for the Defendant's communication by telephone and mail with the Defendant's attorneys and with investigators and mitigation experts employed by the Defendant's attorneys. The Defendant's attorneys are as follows: Robert F. Krapenc, Attorney at Law 580 S. High Street, Suite 250 Columbus, Ohio 43215 Phone: (614) 221-5252 Mark Hunt, Attorney at Law 720 S. High Street, Columbus, Ohio 43206 Phone: (614) 444-5270 The Defendant may have telephone communication and written communication with her above-named attorneys and with investigators and mitigation experts employed by her attorneys only. All other communication by incoming and outgoing telephone calls and by incoming and outgoing mail is suspended until further notice by the Court. The Defendant's attorneys may request through motion that the Court grant the Defendant additional telephone and mail communication privileges, if deemed necessary to prepare and/or present the defense in this action. The Defendant was afforded an opportunity at the hearing held on September 16, 2019, to orally argue in support of the forty-nine (49) pre-trial motions filed by the Defendant in this action. The Defendant, through her attorneys, presented oral argument in support of some of her motions and submitted others solely upon the written memoranda. The State of Ohio was afforded an opportunity to orally argue in response to the Defendant's motions. The Defendant was then afforded an opportunity to argue in reply to the State of Ohio's responsive arguments.

09/10/2021

ORDER RESTORING PRIVILEDGES--THIS ORDER MODIFIES THE SEPTEMBER 16, 2019 ORDER THAT REVOKED THE DEFENDANT'S TELEPHONE AND MAIL PRIVILEGES WITH EXCEPTIONS FOR HER ATTORNEYS, INVESTIGATORS AND MITIGATION EXPERTS. THE DELEWARE COUNTY JAIL IS ORDERED TO RESTORE DEFENDANT'S TELEPHONE AND MAIL PRIVILEGES. DEFENDANT CONTINUES TO BE SUBJECT TO THE COURT'S ORIGINAL ORDER PROHIBITING ANY CONTACT WITH CO-DEFENDANTS IN THIS CASE. FILED AND COPIES TO COUNSEL

 

[Pru2U]

I don't know it for a fact but I believe Canepa wanted the info bad enough any of them could have cut a deal, or tried. Jake just happened to be first. I did find this though:

Asked how this kind of plea deal comes about — who initiates it — Allen says it depends on the situation.

“They’ll lay hints like, ‘Hey my guy might be able to do something for you guys,’ and then they have conversations about it, and it builds,” Allen explained. “So there’s not one side that starts or initiates it. It could be either one.”

‘Nobody expected this:’ Why a legal expert is shocked by Jake Wagner’s plea deal

FOX19’s legal analyst says he’s never seen anything like it.

www.fox19.com

According to George, he would have never confessed or made a deal.

'I ain't caving and I ain't crumbling': Wagner wiretaps played in Pike County trial

WAVERLY, Ohio (WKRC) - Tense phone calls between Jake and Angela Wagner were played for the jury in George Wagner's trial Wednesday.Title: George Wagner trialSt

dayton247now.com

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Curious why you changed your mind. I've lurked here and followed the case from day one and didn't conclude GW4 guilty until the totality of prosecution's evidence. Besides, he has no alibi night of the murders. He also changed his story about his whereabouts the night of the murders. First, he says he went to bed (after he and his entire family watched a movie) at 12:30 am. He testified that he went to bed at 10:00 night of the murders. He needed to change his story as to where he was night of the murders to remove himself and an attempt to place beyond a reasonable doubt in jurors' minds.

If you aren't lying you don't need to change your story because the truth is the truth. The state exposed a lot of his lies.

IMO

Was that 12:30 time ever proved? The only time I ever heard out of his own mouth was 10ish. If Canepa had a 12:30 time out of his own mouth then why didn't she play it and let everyone hear it?

Answer, because she didn't have it. She was trying to trip him up and get him to admit to something she didn't have any proof of. That is why she never tried to call another witness, like the BCI agent who interviewed him, to show he said it in MT. Maybe he never said 12:30 in MT. If she had a tape I am sure she listened to it overnight, before she began her cross. Maybe she thought she heard it, but she listened to the tape and it wasn't in there, so she tried to bluff but couldn't because she had no proof to back it up. And she knew the defense had the BCI agent who interviewed him in MT on their list to call. So she dropped it after making a few snide remarks.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

This is only my opinion but it is my strongly held opinion:

If George was NOT involved in planning…
If George was NOT involved in covering up…If George was NOT on UHR that night…

Jake would have been adamant George was not involved.

Angela would have been adamant George was not involved.

George would have been adamant he was not involved. From the beginning.

All 3 defense attorneys would have been aware if Jake & Angela were adamant George was not involved, therefore, the prosecutor’s office would have been aware George was not involved.

It was the defense attorneys who negotiated the deals with the prosecutors office.

Would it not be unethical for their attorneys to make that deal knowing their clients were adamant George was not involved? I don’t know but if he wasn’t involved, I think Jake & Angela could have cleared George. Especially Jake. The prosecution can talk about not needing it to convict but we know Canepa wanted Jake’s testimony BAD! I have talked about AC being emotionally attached to this case. She, like the rest of us, wanted to know what happened that night, but she especially wanted to be able to tell the families most of their loved ones did not suffer. That was very important to her. Make no mistake, Jake held the cards. He could have denied George was there.

Neither Jake nor Angela were forced or cajoled into to involving George where he wasn’t. George was there.

JMO

I see all your points and agree, but, she let her emotions get in the way and she knows better. She wanted all four b/c she wanted all four wins. She could not prosecute only three or only two. Give us all four or no deal. I can see that. I can JWs attorney's not giving a flying flip about GW4 b/c they aren't his attorneys. She's a prosecutor first and foremost. She's taking some heat over this case too. I really think they pushed to get arrests and confessions before the five-year mark and it wouldn't hurt DeWine's run either.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Curious why you changed your mind. I've lurked here and followed the case from day one and didn't conclude GW4 guilty until the totality of prosecution's evidence. Besides, he has no alibi night of the murders. He also changed his story about his whereabouts the night of the murders. First, he says he went to bed (after he and his entire family watched a movie) at 12:30 am. He testified that he went to bed at 10:00 night of the murders. He needed to change his story as to where he was night of the murders to remove himself and an attempt to place beyond a reasonable doubt in jurors' minds.

If you aren't lying you don't need to change your story because the truth is the truth. The state exposed a lot of his lies.

IMO

Also that 12:3o time may have been the time Angie gave that she went to bed.

And i do not think the state exposed anything except evidence against Jake and Angie.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BIUBM That is significant. I didn't recall him testifying to the family movie and 12:30 bedtime part, but if he did, and changed horses mid-stream, then that's definitely significant. I'll take your word for it and am okay with what the jury decides. They've seen and heard much more than I have in this case, well, any of us have, except for those on here who may have quietly attended the trial.

I never heard him say 12:30. I heard him say they watched a movie and he went to bed around 10ish. Canepa said he told the agent at the border 12:30, but she never backed that up. !2:30 never came out of his mouth that we or the jury ever heard. If the state does not have proof that it came out of his own mouth at the border then my view is Canepa was just trying to sow doubt in the jury's mind that he was lying. In other words she was just trying to blow smoke up everyone's azz while making some really childish and snide remarks. Until Junk or Wilson realized she was killing their case and told her very loudly to shut up. And she did. So what does that tell you?

JMO.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Maybe some of this debacle lay at BCI Trout's feet as well?
BCI supervisor connected to 2016 Pike County murder investigation suspended
Two local attorneys are calling the Pike County mass murder case into question now that a second high-ranking law enforcement officer connected to the case has been suspended.

Michael Trout was widely called the state's lead investigator into the eight Rhoden/Gilley family murders in 2016.

But the Bureau of Criminal Investigations supervisor is off the case - suspended and demoted - after an investigation into how he managed the unit tasked with closing the case.

This is why the trial was a total shyteshow. If Canepa had proof that George lied on the stand she should have played his interview. But I am convinced one of the agents told her he said he went to bed at 12:30 AND SHE DID NOT BOTHER TO CHECK THAT OUT until George said a different time on the stand. When she went back and listened to the interview he either said 10ish or never said any time. That is what the prosecution was trying to hide by not playing the interview, if they even had a tape of it in the first place.

But in an email obtained by WCPO, an agent under Trout's supervision says he doesn't trust Trout.

And Trout admitted to an outside attorney brought in to look into the complaints against him that there is “dysfunction” in the unit.

“If the head of the unit described it as dysfunctional, that could be a potential problem for trial,” former Hamilton County Prosecutor Mike Allen told WCPO.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

At this point the prosecution has 8 days to work up a plea deal with George maybe charging him with obstruction to justice and sentence him to time served or risk the jury coming back with a not guilty verdict and George suing the state of Ohio and winning millions for them keeping him locked up for 4 years with no evidence. They are taking a huge gamble and could cost Ohio millions of dollars in addition to the millions they have already cost the state with the trial.


JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

He and George dyed their hair dark to match their favorite character from the TV show The Walking Dead, Daryl Dixon. To psych himself up before the murders, he said he watched a clip from the movie Boondock Saints; he smiled and held back laughter in the courtroom when the prosecution made him watch the clip in court.

The night of the murders, Jake told the jury he had the Colt pistol, Billy took the Glock and George had his SKS rifle.


Pike County murder trial: 'I felt I had no other choice than to kill Hanna,' Jake Wagner told jury

And where is the clip of George saying that?

JMO

 

[elliebug2015]

I really like your posts. You have great insight into George's involvement. So many posters seem to think George wasn't in on the murder conspiracy with his family.

You give solid reasons why he is at least guilty of the murder conspiracy. Many posters think Jake and Angela are framing George and had to frame him to get a plea deal when that is not how it works.

If George was innocent Jake would have told his attorneys who would not allow Jake to deliberately lie under oath implicating an innocent man. Instead Jake would have just had a deal to testify in Billy's trial and to plead guilty.

Jake's attorneys have a code of ethics to follow. These are top notch attorneys who negotiated Jake's plea deal.

BBM why would he have told his attorneys? Why is Jake’s word the God’s honest truth now? I’m not arguing I’m genuinely curious why all of a sudden everyone thinks he’s being so truthful.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

For the record, GW4 made threats both physically and verbally to TC (she testified to this), made threats to BCI agent and an AG, verbal abuse to two minor children and got in physical altercations with his father. But he's a nice guy. IMO, MOO.

Hmmm. Tabbi certainly didn't have anything bad to say about George. She said she bit him and kneed him in the cajones then started screaming. When he told her to calm down and stop screaming she said she screamed louder. So as far as DV goes, she was the aggressor, not him. Maybe that is why the LEO asked him if he wanted to press charges against her. Maybe that is why she got the charge for DV and not him.

Just saying that there are two sides to every martial argument. She said she bit him, he said she bit him. She said she kneed him in the cajones, he didn't say that. She said he slapped her because she was screaming out of control, he said he didn't.

For anyone who has ever tried to referee a martial argument between a couple you will see what I am talking about here.

But she really spewed hatred of Angie on that stand.

JMO

 

[gizmobtj]

To get their plea deals. I think he approached Canepa, his first story was that George was not involved in any way, Canepa said I don't believe you, I know George was there, now give me the real story and I will take the DP off for all 4 of you and give your mommy 30 years. Think it over. Why did Canepa, having all that evidence, knowing that Angie was the driving force behind the murders gave her the 30 year deal. Jake made a choice. Mommy or George. He chose mommy.

Maybe you missed the conference call between Jake and Angie right after he pled guilty. They both called Chris N and he merged the calls so they could talk to each other. It was brought out in pre trial motions. That is when Angie lost all her privileges and soon after confessed.

JMO

Quick question though. Don't they have his 12 hour interview recorded and doesn't the defense have it? As for the Chris call, I thought Rita had done something similar to that but did not realize Chris had. How long was the call? Wad it brought out in Chris's cross?

 

[NWLady]

In order to believe George's testimony we have to believe that for the first time ever there was a major plan going on in his house for months, purchases being made with his accounts, items bought, guns bought he didn't know about, conversations happening he never overheard not one, mom didn't vent to him about anything or discuss something as she rubbed his back one night (had to mention this lol), he literally had blinders and earplugs on for 3-4 months. Then he happens to give his dad money for a murder truck, and doesn't ever ask what happened to it or where it was or why, doesn't want repaid, just hands over 2500 from his safe and forgets all about it. Then his dad is over the night of the 21st and it's the first time since at least before Jan of that year he's there and it's not questioned at all just goes to bed at 10pm wakes up and even saying he would have heard someone leave because he'd here them, never heard anything, never overheard it discussed after, never saw weapons being cut up, never questioned a thing, just assumed BCI is framing us. Didn't overhear mom, dad, or Jake say anything after the fact, told Jake he should have burned a laptop and I think it was a phone because he again thought they were being framed. Screaming and raging on all those recordings, even terrifying his son because BCI again is framing them. Then when his brother confesses that is the first time he had ANY idea there was a plot and all that has been shared was going on while he lived in a house and was by all other witness testimony and accounts equally as involved and connected to family meetings and decision making and voting on life choices for everything else and they heard it, saw it, and knew about it from before AND after the murders. Nothing changed from before and after.. still talking, meeting, planning, voting, and anyone not in those 4 were excluded from those meetings.

Then if we believe all that, we also have to believe that BCI is actually trying to frame him, Jake and Angela both were able to match their stories of framing George all because they had no deal if they didn't lie and say George was there. The prosecution bribed them with deals and basically is blackmailing them to lie so they can get all 4 of them and frame George because he really is 100% innocent of any and all planning, participating and covering up of this crime.

Now not only that we have Jake's lawyers and Angela's lawyers also agreeing to allow them to lie or be coerced into getting on the stand and lying just so the state can frame George.

Then we have the recorded proffer that George's lawyers and George have heard. They heard it. Do you think if Jake said my brother didn't do anything, didn't know, had no idea until I confessed at any point during that proffer that the would play it they would say that, they would be screaming that. If anyone said to Jake you must implicate George or no deal, they would have been all over that. Just because it wasn't played for us does not mean there is conspiracy where EVERYONE involved in this case is in on it.

Then we have George's lawyers who would have to know recordings don't really exist of him at the border, but allow AC to reference them and read from them AND they themselves even read from them, but there really was no recording or transcript where George said any of what was read in court for him. And because NEITHER side played the recording there must be something hidden on it that proves he was innocent and is now being framed? AND the judge would also now be involved because he would surely know if BCI agents "messed up" and didn't record an interview and is now claiming they did and both lawyers are reading from a transcript that never exists? He literally heard arguments over playing these recordings vs not playing them. I think if there wasn't actually a recording at all he would know that, the defense wouldn't have argued to play it. They have all discovery so if there was no recording, they would have said that was never turned over to us, but they didn't say that they wanted to play it. They can't play it if they don't have it and so why wouldn't they then say, judge we have no recording of that interview.

Do I believe someone in LE can mess up, yes they are human. Do I believe they would get on the stand and lie no. Do I believe if they did lie on the stand and the defense had any proof of that they would expose it YES.

This isn't a case where one mistaken or one bad apple would have been at play in order to create this "Framing of George". Nearly everyone in this case would have to be in on this and I just don't believe that. Just because we want to hear recordings and we think if there was nothing bad on it, then they would play it, etc doesn't mean there isn't a reason (other than they must be framing George) that it isn't played. When the defense could have also played these recordings, I just don't see how anything helpful to George would be on it or they would have played it also.

Very good post! This should be included in prosecution's closing statements/arguments!

 

[gizmobtj]

Because you cannot sit on a jury and snicker and roll your eyes during testimony. Or do you think the jury can sit there and make fun of a man on trial for his life while he is testifying? That would be highly prejudicial. besides the judge warned everyone before trial started. He even ordered that the family could not wear anything that was support for the victims, like the color orange.

JMO

I don't think so. in fact, the issue of what jury laughter can tell you had been researched. Here's an Ohio murder case:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1046496410366311?journalCode=sgrd

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don't know, @rsd1200, but I don't think so. I think Trout was probably an a-hole, but I've seen nothing but the utmost professionalism and sincerity from every agent who has taken the stand. This guy Trout probably made their lives miserable, but they did their jobs in earnest and to the best of their ability.

Over a thousand tips called in and really, no real leads until the shell casings were spotted in the Wagner's Peterson Rd. driveway - by chance - and a full 13 months after the murders. There were so many moving parts, from collecting evidence from the scene, to autopsies, to social media, then the searches for a needle in a landfill. It was incredible investigative work years in the making. Yes, Trout could have screwed things up royally if even one of these dedicated & determined investigators had quit under his leadership. But they didn't. They were dedicated and they were determined, you can hear it in their voices and see it in their body language when they testified.

JMO

but I've seen nothing but the utmost professionalism and sincerity from every agent who has taken the stand.

But we never saw Trout, the lead investigator testify did we?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

see this is where the term reasonable doubt comes from. anyone can make up random excuses about why an action which contributed toward a conspiracy "isnt as it seems". the standard isnt beyond a shadow of a doubt its reasonable doubt. youve lised multiple purchases g4 made which were later used to kill 8 people. youve got the person who murdered 5 of them coorborating the purchases and what they were used for specifically in the plot. youve got documentation proving the purchases were made. george would have been better off saying he knew tried to talk them out of it and then did not go with. listening to the conversations on the phone and in the truck g4 was up in the business as much as angela, if antthing jake sounded like the voice of reason. it is simple ubleievable that all of this documented evidence can be nullified with a carefully crafted retelling and excuses of incriminating actions. jake has no motive t o lie and put g4 at the scene zero. they were all offered lwop at the begining which is what jake got. ohio isnt even using the dp right now, so his deal is essentially giving him nothing and what does he ask for to save his family members lives. the first thing he asks for , there is no motive what so ever for jake to put g4 at the scene if he was not there. until we all walk around with a drone videotaping our every move, i cant imagine more evidence in a murder conspiracy case. what else besides a video could you ask for?? now angela canepa did a terrible job trying the case, but bci got more then enough evidence ot bury all 4 under the jail where they belong.

Jake and Angie admitted to buying everything used in the murders. It was never proven that George ever bought anything used in the murders. The only thing he admitted to buying was a bug detector years before. Were the victims killed with a bug detector? So where are you going with that?

JMO

 

[pcrum12]

Was GW4 offered a plea deal? I thought I heard Parker ask that and GW4 said no. Of course, I may be mistaken.

I heard same