VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[Dudly]

If he was a changed man and done with the crime, then why not rant and rage saying You all can rot, I'll take care of the kids. You guys always up to something and I am done. I will not break you out of jail. If he was so done he could have said I'm gone and yall can deal with this fallout. Instead is involved in a conversation about how everyone would like to serve jail time or be electrocuted and his mother sure was trying to shut him up as he went on and on that day too. Jake tell him to shut up, don't say that George.. right becuase he's paranoid about BCI framing them so that just makes so much sense.

George says Jake always told, but in those recorded calls and wire taps George sure has a lot to say and many times his dear ole momma and even his dad wants to get off the phone and George just wants to keep on talking. Ha I might go back and listen again now that I have heard him on the stand. See what he was going on about that everyone just wanted to be done with the conversation and hang up.

Thousands of people would love to have the financial independence he could have with his income possibilities. Yet he stayed put with the family even with the chances he had to get out and away. Why???

 

[Betty P]

Jmo he has family in my area now. If George moves back I won’t be scared. I doubt I would see much of him. If he gets out when trial over or in 10, 15, 20 years I would say he will walk the straight way. It is extremely sad for the victim’s families, but you can’t convict someone while having reasonable doubt to try to make it somehow better for the victims families. Jmo

Most people following this case don't have a problem with the "reasonable doubt" standard. There's plenty of evidence. Saturating social media with the false message that there isn't any evidence won't help.

 

[Skully67]

They did not have to answer questions and could leave at anytime so it was not a custodial interrogation

Hummm. I thought it was.

 

[Betty P]

Yes & just think of how many catalytic converters are out there just waiting to be stolen Sorry, my sarcasm isn’t direct toward anyone here. I just can’t get over how awful this family is.

The tainted fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. Billy learned it somewhere.

 

[Cool Cats]

Is he on trial for his past crimes not associated with the Rhoden murders?

Did I say that no. That's not what the poster and I were discussing. I know what he is on trial for. 22 Counts.

His past crimes did come up in his testimony. Showing no remorse for any of them. Except he wasn't thrilled with truckers losing their jobs because of their robberies. He knew his crimes hurt people financially yet still participated.

 

[Myland]

Most people following this case don't have a problem with the "reasonable doubt" standard. There's plenty of evidence. Saturating social media with the false message that there isn't any evidence won't help.

Jmo I agree and it’s a great thing there is so much support from all over. But the thing is it will be a Pike County Jury to decide guilt on all or guilt on some.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Did I say that no. That's not what the poster and I were discussing. I know what he is on trial for. 22 Counts.

His past crimes did come up in his testimony. Showing no remorse for any of them. Except he wasn't thrilled with truckers losing their jobs because of their robberies. He knew his crimes hurt people financially yet still participated.

CC
George Wagner iv lied when he said it bothered him when truckers lost their jobs when his family robbed them, this family has made millions dollars off their crimes, they drove vehicle that you and me couldn’t afford, they owed every kind of fire arm that they wanted, the Wagner’s had several acres of land, went fishing and hunting anytime they felt like on their 4 wheelers and side X sides, on a income of very little that is in the tax payers eyes,
George Wagner iv was raised to lie steal and cheat, he will never charge, GW4 is a conn man and he is trying to pull his con on the jury, and all of us!!!! JMO

 

[Willow Knight]

If he was a changed man and done with the crime, then why not rant and rage saying You all can rot, I'll take care of the kids. You guys always up to something and I am done. I will not break you out of jail. If he was so done he could have said I'm gone and yall can deal with this fallout. Instead is involved in a conversation about how everyone would like to serve jail time or be electrocuted and his mother sure was trying to shut him up as he went on and on that day too. Jake tell him to shut up, don't say that George.. right becuase he's paranoid about BCI framing them so that just makes so much sense.

George says Jake always told, but in those recorded calls and wire taps George sure has a lot to say and many times his dear ole momma and even his dad wants to get off the phone and George just wants to keep on talking. Ha I might go back and listen again now that I have heard him on the stand. See what he was going on about that everyone just wanted to be done with the conversation and hang up.

If you do go back, would you mind sending me the link? I'd like to listen again. I'm not being lazy, health issues have me down and it's getting hard to keep up with my organization of facts of this case. TIA

 

[rsd1200]

I thought the same when GW4 stated in his testimony that JW set fire to the house with a chicken. I think the Wagners must have a bunch of "inside" jokes about chickens they like to tell. i.e. Jake selling a pregnant chicken.

I want to but I can't so I won't. Hint, I will; We used to call people who were into chicken fighting a name. Think the muppets, and Gonzo is in love with a chicken. I'm done.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Your rational input is important, though. We’ve got some here who are adamant GW was 100% all in, some think only partially, some are pondering reasonable doubt and several are adamant he wasn’t involved at all. It’s a possible glimpse into early jury room deliberations.

I say “possible glimpse” because so many here have been following this case for years, some since the first day. I think that makes a big difference. The jury “should” have less of a pre-conceived notion. Much less. We’ve also seen and heard a lot go on in the courtroom they weren’t privy to.

Obviously there is zero evidence against George.

So all we have is jake and Angie. Then we have George.

Angie cannot put George at the scene and admitted her and Jake planned and bought all the supplies. We did not hear or see her testimony so all we have is second hand accounts from reporters in the courtroom. We heard no reports where she said he was in on the planning or that he bought supplies. They reported that she said George told her he would take the fall for all of them and that he said the shoe print was his. We saw George refute that very convincingly. So Angie's testimony is worthless unless she said something else the reporters did not report on. I think if she had said something big the reporters would have tweeted about it. I don't think that jurors will even consider her testimony as evidence against George.

Jake. I watched as Jake pled guilty. All that smirking, smiling and laughing as he pled guilty to killing 8 people turned me off anything he had to say. Even though he was pleading guilty to something I knew for years he did, all that smirking caused me to think all is just a joke to him. I disliked him intensely for that attitude. I wonder if the jury felt the same way during his testimony in front of them. If so they are not going to believe what he said about George being there. Nothing that was tweeted out that Jake said about George was believable.

The disaster of the false bottom to the truck that BCI built a week after Jake's testimony hurt the state badly. It also hurt Jake's testimony. Pike county is rural so you know people there know about hauling hay. They are all probably a bit of a handyman also. So i am going to say that not a lot of them believed his testimony about that OSB board piled with at least 480 pounds of hay and it not bowing to the point that a 300 pound man could squeeze under it.

The two trucks. AC told us in opening to remember the two trucks that they would become huge later. Then she showed us a couple of videos where you could see the headlights of two vehicles. You could not determine if these were cars, SUVs or trucks. Neither one of them looked like a truck loaded with hay. She did not follow though with them and the huge part they played.

The shoeprint. Not even the expert of experts could clarify those shoeprints. And we never did learn what size shoe George wore, or Jake and Angie. One BCI agent thought the piles of size 12 boots were Billy's. I am more inclined to believe that because they were from the Peterson rd house that they were George's.

Tabbi added nothing as far as the murders were concerned. Neither did Sammatha S. These two women did not really have anything bad to say about George. Most of their testimony was against Angie.

Beth testified that she heard George talk about the murders. Not unusual as jake and Angie was telling him BCI was trying to frame jake and also the fact that they thought BCI was following and listening to them. Other than that of course they talked about the murders. Everyone in Pike county was talking about the murders. Indeed the whole country and most of the world was talking about the murders. We were talking about the murders on here. So I do not find it unusual that George and Jake and Angie talked about the murders in front of Beth. Note that Beth did not have anything really bad to say about George. Note also she never heard George make any statements that he was involved in the murders.

If Canepa comes in with a closing that is as bad as her opening, the state would do well to walk in with a motion to dismiss all charges against George and save Ohio more expense and the jurors time.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Thousands of people would love to have the financial independence he could have with his income possibilities. Yet he stayed put with the family even with the chances he had to get out and away. Why???

Ask any abused child why they stay. Ask any abused female or male why they stay in horrible living conditions? It takes seven attempts, at least, for a woman to leave her abuser IF they ever do. Now think about being raised from infancy in that home. It's all they were taught. Both of those boys were abused at the very least mentally, for most of their childhood and into adulthood. As a friend once told me, until she was in high school she thought all homes operated the way hers did. Her father had sex with her from the time she was about three.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Last comment on this from me about whether Audio of George at the border. Video at Day 21 part 2 L&C at 52:10 it starts and another poster posted that link as well at last thread post #858. Ryan explained that by law it is REQUIRED to Audio (at least) record the interviews. Period! IMO if there was no Audio of George, that could be a technicality to get this case thrown out. And Ryan clearly states they did Audio record the interviews. IANAL but I believe there's Audio of George's Interview for these reasons. I would need to HEAR this audio that Angela C kept referencing to George but would not PLAY nor would she provide him the TRANSCRIPT when he defended what she said he said by saying "that's not what I said" (my words but to that effect). If I need it, I think some on the jury may need it too. My opinion at this point is he may not have been involved in the planning and he may not have been involved in the execution - I find it hard to believe he didn't know about it after the fact but I don't think that has been proven IMO. And I think that by law he is not required to rat out a family member. I see reasonable doubt. By who am I? I'm not on the jury so we shall see. IANAL IANAL IANAL IMO IMO IMO. HA HA

One thing that has not been mentioned. The BCI agent Ryan S also said some of the audio was very poor quality. That may be the reason it was never played.

I see a lot of reasonable doubt.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Your rational input is important, though. We’ve got some here who are adamant GW was 100% all in, some think only partially, some are pondering reasonable doubt and several are adamant he wasn’t involved at all. It’s a possible glimpse into early jury room deliberations.

I say “possible glimpse” because so many here have been following this case for years, some since the first day. I think that makes a big difference. The jury “should” have less of a pre-conceived notion. Much less. We’ve also seen and heard a lot go on in the courtroom they weren’t privy to.

This is true. If we take all the news articles and pre trial motions we saw out what really is left to convince us of guilt?

JMO

 

[CIA Team Member]

CC
George Wagner iv lied when he said it bothered him when truckers lost their jobs when his family robbed them, this family has made millions dollars off their crimes, they drove vehicle that you and me couldn’t afford, they owed every kind of fire arm that they wanted, the Wagner’s had several acres of land, went fishing and hunting anytime they felt like on their 4 wheelers and side X sides, on a income of very little that is in the tax payers eyes,
George Wagner iv was raised to lie steal and cheat, he will never charge, GW4 is a conn man and he is trying to pull his con on the jury, and all of us!!!! JMO

My life's mantra has always been: Life's very simple. We humans tend to make things more complicated then they really are.
Your statement is succinct and correct, IMO.
This particular family is a crime family. This, IMO, was generational on both sides. CN perjured himself on the stand, yet will face no consequences along with the entire families. Because consequences never came knocking.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thousands of people would love to have the financial independence he could have with his income possibilities. Yet he stayed put with the family even with the chances he had to get out and away. Why???

Because he felt he was better off with them than without them.
Because he liked that lifestyle and because he got great child care services 24/7.

Of course he talks the talk against the family in court, pretends to be different than them, but he liked it or he would have left it.

He admitted he liked hunting all day and going out late at night to party. He could do that and go anywhere he wanted at any time he wanted because he had a built in babysitter 24/7, his mom. He also had a built in playmate and home school partner for his son.

Why worry about playmates and play dates and pre school and public schools when there is another kid 24/7 right there to keep his son company? Having his niece playing with his son was a HUGE benefit for him and Angie. He knew his son needed to learn to share with and how to act with kids his own age. That he needed a playmate.

He had more money by having access to everyone else's money. The financial security of all the family money. Only had to pay half the bills. Probabably saved 50% in bills and child care. He could buy $500 toys, I can't remember which one but one purchase mentioned was at least that.

He could afford buying guns, I think he said weekly, he could afford buying trucks and 4 wheelers and game systems and other toys because they pooled their money. He could just use Jake's rewards card and everyone's credit cards and had access to more than one bank account and never had to only rely on himself financially.

To go off on his own meant raising his son as a single parent and supporting himself just on his own income. Even in his truck driving job when he got tired he could just let Jake drive.

He was all into his enmeshed lifestyle with Jake and Angie even planning they live together both in AK and Missouri. Even helping them to do this with his credit rating.

Don't be fooled by George. He chose that lifestyle because it was convenient for him. If he had found a girlfriend with millions of dollars who would be a built in babysitter and that deal looked better, he would have left and enjoyed that.

George would not have stayed if he hated that lifestyle and couldn't stand his mom or brother. No. His brother and mom were his best friends. He did everything with them, even going to the store. We even have photos of them at a Walmart in AK and a Walmart in Ohio. Elizabeth testified to this constant doing errands together.

Opinion

 

[Piffcat]

Jmo I didn’t see one piece of evidence on the plan except loaning Billy money to buy truck. Truck that was purchased in the driveway on Peterson.

purchase records of murder kit, recovered sks, night scope, credit card for cell phone jammer(which was confirmed as purchase by anti fraud in real time. the prosecutor did a bad job but the cops did a great one. the bar to convict george of murder conspiracy(which domino effects all other charges) needs 2 components-

1. evidence/testimony establishing existence of conspiracy.
a.. there was a succesful murder conspiract
b.. g4 is a member of the conspiracy.
evidence supporting this component- direct testimony by 2 members of the established conspiracy involved in all facets(planning,murders , cover up) this is considered the top quality desirable evidence for this part of rico law.


the second component requires
a. 1 overt act committed by defendant to further the conspiracy proven wtih evidence outside of co conspirator testimony. evidence supporting this component- have him purchasing items, modifying and buying truck, providing sks etc.

if i were canepa i would have asked if b3 paid back the "loan" for the truck

in order to find g4 innocent the jury would have to disregard almost the entire prosecution case on the strength of g4s "it wasnt me" defense. reminds me of that shaggy song when dude gets caught cheating in front of gf but insists "wasnt me"

 

[RAISINISBACK]

From my notes I have a West Chester Police Capt. Seth Hagaman who questioned GW4 on 2017 when he was with the BCI. Do not know IF he questioned GW4 at the border though. He was subpoenaed by the defense.

Do not know IF this is the guy who interviewed him at the border - was it in 2017?


So - the Judge said there would be hearings next without the jury. Anyone seen any dates on those? TIA!

That is who I saw was the one who interviewed George. He was subpoenaed by the defense. Probably to refute anything Canepa said about the interview but George did a good job of that himself.

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

purchase records of murder kit, recovered sks, night scope, credit card for cell phone jammer(which was confirmed as purchase by anti fraud in real time. the prosecutor did a bad job but the cops did a great one. the bar to convict george of murder conspiracy(which domino effects all other charges) needs 2 components-

1. evidence/testimony establishing existence of conspiracy.
a.. there was a succesful murder conspiract
b.. g4 is a member of the conspiracy.
evidence supporting this component- direct testimony by 2 members of the established conspiracy involved in all facets(planning,murders , cover up) this is considered the top quality desirable evidence for this part of rico law.


the second component requires
a. 1 overt act committed by defendant to further the conspiracy proven wtih evidence outside of co conspirator testimony. evidence supporting this component- have him purchasing items, modifying and buying truck, providing sks etc.

if i were canepa i would have asked if b3 paid back the "loan" for the truck

in order to find g4 innocent the jury would have to disregard almost the entire prosecution case on the strength of g4s "it wasnt me" defense. reminds me of that shaggy song when dude gets caught cheating in front of gf but insists "wasnt me"

Good stuff @Piffcat. Really good stuff.

 

[rsd1200]

Most people following this case don't have a problem with the "reasonable doubt" standard. There's plenty of evidence. Saturating social media with the false message that there isn't any evidence won't help.

Saturating it that there's died in the wool concrete proof is better? Because there's not. If he's convicted and he likely will be, it won't be b/c of any evidence I saw.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

G3 knew his wife and kept the vehicle in place. AW made accusations about EA poisoning her ice cubes for Pete's sake. Idk they kept children in interrogation rooms. Odd. If so, 'vine never left his father's side either. AW has some serious stability issues.

George doubted Angie's allegations of Beth poisoning them enough that he did his own experiments. He testified that he found that Beth did not rinse all the soap out of the trays before she filled them and that is why they tasted weird. So he basically exonerated Beth from the poisoning accusations. Sounds like at that point he was not believing all that poisoning crap probably because Angie leveled the same accusations against Tabbi. He also stated the only reason he believed the accusation about Beth and SA is because SW said it. That is important glimpse into his mindset. In other words he did not believe Angie when she said it.

JMO