VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[RAISINISBACK]

Order doughnuts in the morning and pizza in the afternoon/evening and tons of coffee for everyone then start putting all the evidence together showing George was in on the murder conspiracy and went that night, then explain he is a menace to society.

He was in on the murder conspiracy and never stopped it. He would never have missed 5 months of murder planning and getting ready. He was in on every single family decision, especially one as important and risky as this. He would not have been left out of this.

Late night party George asleep at 10:00pm that night, no way. At border he was saying he was up till midnight watching movies.

If he walks I will be pissed off royally at the prosecution for not proving it's Case. My only hope then will be they at least get Billy.

We still have Billy.

Did Canepa ever prove he was up until midnight? If she did I missed it.

JMO

 

[Myland]

Obviously there is zero evidence against George.

So all we have is jake and Angie. Then we have George.

Angie cannot put George at the scene and admitted her and Jake planned and bought all the supplies. We did not hear or see her testimony so all we have is second hand accounts from reporters in the courtroom. We heard no reports where she said he was in on the planning or that he bought supplies. They reported that she said George told her he would take the fall for all of them and that he said the shoe print was his. We saw George refute that very convincingly. So Angie's testimony is worthless unless she said something else the reporters did not report on. I think if she had said something big the reporters would have tweeted about it. I don't think that jurors will even consider her testimony as evidence against George.

Jake. I watched as Jake pled guilty. All that smirking, smiling and laughing as he pled guilty to killing 8 people turned me off anything he had to say. Even though he was pleading guilty to something I knew for years he did, all that smirking caused me to think all is just a joke to him. I disliked him intensely for that attitude. I wonder if the jury felt the same way during his testimony in front of them. If so they are not going to believe what he said about George being there. Nothing that was tweeted out that Jake said about George was believable.

The disaster of the false bottom to the truck that BCI built a week after Jake's testimony hurt the state badly. It also hurt Jake's testimony. Pike county is rural so you know people there know about hauling hay. They are all probably a bit of a handyman also. So i am going to say that not a lot of them believed his testimony about that OSB board piled with at least 480 pounds of hay and it not bowing to the point that a 300 pound man could squeeze under it.

The two trucks. AC told us in opening to remember the two trucks that they would become huge later. Then she showed us a couple of videos where you could see the headlights of two vehicles. You could not determine if these were cars, SUVs or trucks. Neither one of them looked like a truck loaded with hay. She did not follow though with them and the huge part they played.

The shoeprint. Not even the expert of experts could clarify those shoeprints. And we never did learn what size shoe George wore, or Jake and Angie. One BCI agent thought the piles of size 12 boots were Billy's. I am more inclined to believe that because they were from the Peterson rd house that they were George's.

Tabbi added nothing as far as the murders were concerned. Neither did Sammatha S. These two women did not really have anything bad to say about George. Most of their testimony was against Angie.

Beth testified that she heard George talk about the murders. Not unusual as jake and Angie was telling him BCI was trying to frame jake and also the fact that they thought BCI was following and listening to them. Other than that of course they talked about the murders. Everyone in Pike county was talking about the murders. Indeed the whole country and most of the world was talking about the murders. We were talking about the murders on here. So I do not find it unusual that George and Jake and Angie talked about the murders in front of Beth. Note that Beth did not have anything really bad to say about George. Note also she never heard George make any statements that he was involved in the murders.

If Canepa comes in with a closing that is as bad as her opening, the state would do well to walk in with a motion to dismiss all charges against George and save Ohio more expense and the jurors time.

JMO

Jmo the reporters never stated Jake said those two trucks were them. I find it odd that Capena did not ask Jake to identify those trucks. Why when Jake was on stand did they not go into more visual aids on the murder trucks and video of trucks driving around.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Rant. Yes, a bulletproof bulldozer is on every corner, at every car lot. I can barely resist them. Honestly, where is he gonna get a bulldozer and bulletproof it? Bulldozers are pretty bulletproof in and of themselves. G4 is a ranter.

I have thought about getting a couple for me and hubby to play with. I want one of those big Cat D9's though. the D9's cost upwards to 900,000.00.

Important to note the judge would not let that testimony in so we also need to disregard it along with the threats against various LE because the judge threw them out also.

The jury neither saw or heard any of that.
JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'd start by taking an initial vote. See what we have in the way of mindset, and start from there. If there's only one or two on the fence, they'll drag them over. He's going away, guilty of conspiracy or not.

He's going away, guilty of conspiracy or not.

I am not convinced of that. He took the stand against all odds and did a really good job. If the jury paid attention to the evidence I think they are going to come back with a NG.

JMO

 

[Myland]

purchase records of murder kit, recovered sks, night scope, credit card for cell phone jammer(which was confirmed as purchase by anti fraud in real time. the prosecutor did a bad job but the cops did a great one. the bar to convict george of murder conspiracy(which domino effects all other charges) needs 2 components-

1. evidence/testimony establishing existence of conspiracy.
a.. there was a succesful murder conspiract
b.. g4 is a member of the conspiracy.
evidence supporting this component- direct testimony by 2 members of the established conspiracy involved in all facets(planning,murders , cover up) this is considered the top quality desirable evidence for this part of rico law.


the second component requires
a. 1 overt act committed by defendant to further the conspiracy proven wtih evidence outside of co conspirator testimony. evidence supporting this component- have him purchasing items, modifying and buying truck, providing sks etc.

if i were canepa i would have asked if b3 paid back the "loan" for the truck

in order to find g4 innocent the jury would have to disregard almost the entire prosecution case on the strength of g4s "it wasnt me" defense. reminds me of that shaggy song when dude gets caught cheating in front of gf but insists "wasnt me"

Jmo the night scope purchased in fall 2015? The sks Jake had access to or the one Jake owned? Cell phone jammers, did he buy them? The ones like Billy and crs got? Or the ones Angela purchased? Loaning Billy money to buy a truck? No evidence provided other than Jake he modified truck. And reconstruction of truck was a fail. What job did Billy assign George? I thought the jobs were assigned to Jake and Angela.

 

[Pru2U]

If you do go back, would you mind sending me the link? I'd like to listen again. I'm not being lazy, health issues have me down and it's getting hard to keep up with my organization of facts of this case. TIA

This is James Pilcher's reported version. I'll drop the video link in a message so you can find it easier if you need it again.

'I ain't caving and I ain't crumbling': Wagner wiretaps played in Pike County trial

WAVERLY, Ohio (WKRC) - Tense phone calls between Jake and Angela Wagner were played for the jury in George Wagner's trial Wednesday.Title: George Wagner trialSt

local12.com

 

[Willow Knight]

Obviously there is zero evidence against George.

So all we have is jake and Angie. Then we have George.

If Canepa comes in with a closing that is as bad as her opening, the state would do well to walk in with a motion to dismiss all charges against George and save Ohio more expense and the jurors time.

JMO

I appreciate your opinion. If I may politely ask, why do you say there is zero evidence? JW testified that George 4 was at the murder scene, armed, and protected JW with a gun in the event one of the victims woke. (or to protect JW from his father) JW testified that he and George 4 destroyed evidence.

AW testified she saw George 4 leave and return with Jake and their father. AW testified that George 4 admitted to her the bloody prints were his. That is direct evidence.

The jury decides the credibility of witnesses. Their decision should be based on the evidence. If a person wants to not believe JW's testimony that is one thing, however evidence was provided. JW described what happened that horrible night, he had to be there, IMO, to know the details. It would not be reasonable, to me, to believe Jake simply added his brother for the fun of it. It could/would take the DP off the table for JW and his mother if JW were to lie. I can think of no reason JW would risk the DP back on the table.

All my opinion with respect to other's opinions.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

They were nor alone though. A lot of the others mentioned in the trial had crimes tied to them. Those crimes to murder might feel like a stretch.

Along those lines, what's curious to me is why the defense didn't try to drag Skid Montgomery, his sons, GW4s grandfather's and others in to muddy up reasonable doubt. I suppose they picked the synergy of the Jake killed them all theory because it would exonerate George and undermine Jake. Just comes down to "Why would Jake lie?" and "Why would Angela lie?" They could have gotten a deal for just for putting Billy under the prison. Why they would not lie seems simple-- when they started talking, they had no idea what BCI had at the moment they started talking.



Such a sad story.

SM, and especially his sons had no part in these murders. In fact TM *a son* is a county commissioner and as for SM, he doesn't get around very well.. being 85 he is limited. Not just an opinion... the truth!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo they can’t even convict on count 22 corrupt activity because the indictment has specific dates and he didn’t admit to crimes in those dates. I could find him guilty of forgery. Jmo the state had a narrow time frame in their indictment. They may get him on guns depending on purchase date. Jmo

can't get him on forgery because he cannot forge his own signature. he didn't even back date it. Angie put the date in after he signed it.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It may have been admitted into evidence, we just didn't hear it. Who flipping knows? That audio has been one of the biggest mysteries AND disappointments, both by the hands of the prosecution.

that along with the trucks and shoes.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

What about Racketeering crime, I might be wrong how I’m pronounced it but he has a history of a lifetime of crime! JMO

He was never charged with the crimes and until he is and convicted of them there is no RICO.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

I have thought about getting a couple for me and hubby to play with. I want one of those big Cat D9's though. the D9's cost upwards to 900,000.00.

Important to note the judge would not let that testimony in so we also need to disregard it along with the threats against various LE because the judge threw them out also.

The jury neither saw or heard any of that.
JMO

He deemed it all ranting. I'd not mind riding around the farm at night on one and make crop circles.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

George’s attorneys have had the audio news transcripts for a couple of years now. It’s their job to ensure he has that information. AC refusing to provide it to him during cross examination was the correct move. She she shouldn’t give him evidence during cross that he can use to modify his testimony to ensure it matches the evidence. My impression is that there are incriminating statements in that interview and defense wants to find an excuse to get it thrown out, hence the bickering over how it was recorded. JMO. IANAL

If the defense had it then George read it. So what kept him from "modifying" his testimony a year ago?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Like same thing they charge people like Crime Boss with! Or would that be a federal charge

It's federal. RICO Act.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Hey Sleuthers GW4 got to see all the testimony from Beth, His Ex wife and other witness before he took the stand so yes he had time to answer every question with what ever made GW4 look like a SAINT! JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think it will come down to believability of the witnesses. Do they believe George or do they believe every other witness that got on the stand. Do they believe George when he said all those recordings where he's saying things like Jake should have burned the laptop, he wants to kill Agent Scheiderer, he won't back down, won't crumble, etc all of that was simply because he thought BCI was framing his family. Also do they believe he knew NOTHING until Jake confessed.

I heard someone that was in the courtroom watching all the testimony say they think the defense was preparing George to get on the stand from the day Jake confessed. They knew it would come down to that. I can see that now. They also said Jake was very matter of fact and straight in his testimony, no thinking or confusion, very believable as well.
Look at the witnesses they called.


Pastors who knew him long time ago and barely saw him in Alaska even though they were close before. (also interesting is the pastor thought they were a good church family and they were all committing crimes at that point so clearly they hid their true selves well when it benefited them)

His boss in Alaska

Tattoo guy

Guy who owned the lot their stuff was stored on

divorce lawyer

Expert that was barely communicated with the defense and only had a draft report done, didn't even receive all the evidence, and was only notified 10 days before he testified that they were even using him in court. From June when he gave them the draft report he didn't hear from them until end of Oct.

Now it makes sense they were calling George because all these people did was say George was a nice guy. Since the defense was going with the George didn't know until Jake confessed argument, what else could they have done but put George on the stand. All those other witnesses they subpoenaed were for nothing, not part of any defense. I was wondering how they could call drug guys and other LE people to get a different version if their defense was he wasn't there and didn't know anything until April 2021.

I heard someone that was in the courtroom watching all the testimony

Were you in the courtroom every day? We all heard from people who were in the courtroom every day. Reporters who tweeted about it. I did not read in any of their tweets where they heard the defense was preparing George to testify ever since Jake's confession.

They also said Jake was very matter of fact and straight in his testimony, no thinking or confusion

Was that in between the times he was smiling, laughing and smirking?

all these people did was say George was a nice guy.
So did the prosecution witnesses. Even Tabbi did not have any thing bad to say about George. Just Angie like all the others did. Even Beth.

JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Agreed.

Will forever sadly remember how they not only took away innocent people, but left these children without family, their beautiful mother Hanna May, grandparents Chris Sr. and Dana, uncles Chris Jr., Gary and Frankie and an aunt Hannah Gilley (Frankie's fiancee) and a cousin Kenneth.

My apologies if titles are incorrect. Feel free to make any corrections. IMO

Gary was a cousin, Kenneth an uncle.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

All JMO,this is a huge disappointment for any who have followed from the beginning. You have 4 suspects, 8 murders and 4 crime scenes. I don't know how it could have been presented differently. The jury needed the backstory, the family dynamics and the 6+ years of investigation. IMO, there was still more to be presented.

I'm surprised the defense did not call more witnesses, like FW or RW but then they may have been pulled in to the case and they didn't want that.

I know the defense does not have to prove innocence but I think it was a mistake to put GW on the stand. The jury has a tremendous amount of evidence to look at but wouldn't you, if you were on the jury already have a gut feel of what happened and who is guilty of the crimes? Anyone think the trial came to an abrupt halt for whatever reason?? You name it.

trial came to an abrupt halt for whatever reason
Could that be because the prosecution realized they did not have any evidence and george was more believable than their star witnesses and they were wasting their time and the states money?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Interesting. I was shocked. It seemed like a big risk. My feeling was that he did paint a sympathetic, polite and non-monster portrait. However, the prosecution's theory rang true -- you may have been a victim of being in this family, but you are sane and you made choices to go along with most of what was done and you certainly were not forthcoming. He had so many opportunities-- BCI gave him so many opportunities. The only sympathetic portrait of him not taking them up on them, in my opinion, is that truly did not believe his family was involved. If nothing else, if he is convicted, his testimony could mitigate his sentence. But since there are 8 murders, I suspect, that will be of no functional relevance

One thing I have been thinking about. Angie planned and carried out the arson of every house they owned. I am wondering why she did not plan and carry out arson of the Peterson Rd house? Maybe because it was in George's name and he told her no way?

Something to think about.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593997100743884802

If a juror did something as prejudicial as snickering or doing eyerolls during testimony of any kind they would be thrown off the jury by the judge. that would be grounds for mistrial.

JMO