OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #87

[Cool Cats]

We can never know what would have happened if one or more of the Wagner 4 had refused to participate in mass murder. But where there are 4 conspirators, there are 4 different reasons for going along with the murder plan. It's hard to know who exactly was the driver--Jake suggested it was his dad's plan but the person seemingly driving most of the dysfunction around the sons, their wives/GFs and the grandchildren was Angela. But that's not to say that Jake or George disagreed with the family delusions about keeping the kids "safe." Both Jake and George gave testimony that made it clear they shared their mother's beliefs, attitudes and actions.

George was sipping Angie's kool aid daily. He bought into her poison against Jake's wife not to be trusted around the children including HIS son. He wanted to get rid of her and basically hated her calling her derogatory names. He was the one who told Jake his infamous chilling quote: "The Family Has Spoken."

This quote was in reference to the family voting to get rid of Jake's wife. It sounds to me like it was Angela and George who wanted to get rid of her. I think Jake did stick up for her in a conversation with Angie but then for some reason he gave in. Or maybe eventually really just didn't want to be married to her anymore.

Seriously, if he wanted that marriage and a new baby with her he could have simply got his own place and told George and Angela that if they couldn't accept her then "don't come over to our home and she won't come to yours."

Jake doesn't know what love is. If he loved Beth he would have stuck by her, that is what newlyweds do. They were sopose to be in love newlyweds.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, I think so. I think it was because they possibly wanted the baby also (even though it wasn't Jake's maybe they could swoop in and be the "good guys" that want to care for the baby since it's Sophia's sister) and it also was easy for them to have Sophia at their house. Hanna and Jake were doing a week at one house and a week at the other. I recall it being said Jake picked her up early to "help" since Hanna was having the baby. I think this is something that would happen and it not be suspicious. He again is seen as the cooperative ex/baby daddy just helping out mom since she has a newborn. They didn't want Sophia there when the murders happened.

Speaking of "swooping in and caring for the baby" Jake said after the murders:

Quote from article:

But if he isn't Kylie's dad, and if the courts deem another man suitable to care for her, he will step aside -- at least partially.

"I'm not going to take her," Wagner said. "But I will want mandatory visitation in order to see her regularly."

Note him acting all controlling by saying "I'm not going to take her," and "mandatory visitation." And Angie said the 2 sisters would really need each other.

I am sure the Wagners never tried to keep the 2 sister's close. Hopefully, their new families do.

Pike County: 'That's all we've got left. Just those kids.'

As authorities continue to investigate the Rhoden family killings, at least three families are working to gain custody of the babies left behind.

www.cincinnati.com

 

[Dudly]

Speaking of "swooping in and caring for the baby" Jake said after the murders:

Quote from article:

But if he isn't Kylie's dad, and if the courts deem another man suitable to care for her, he will step aside -- at least partially.

"I'm not going to take her," Wagner said. "But I will want mandatory visitation in order to see her regularly."

Note him acting all controlling by saying "I'm not going to take her," and "mandatory visitation." And Angie said the 2 sisters would really need each other.

I am sure the Wagners never tried to keep the 2 sister's close. Hopefully, their new families do.

Pike County: 'That's all we've got left. Just those kids.'

As authorities continue to investigate the Rhoden family killings, at least three families are working to gain custody of the babies left behind.

www.cincinnati.com

I remember JW saying that as if it was up to him if he got to take her or demand visitation. “I’m privileged” just oozes out of him.

 

[TopHat123]

Canepa was clear, yes they waited till after Hanna had the baby before killing her and that Hanna very clearly told Jake the baby was not his, that it was Charley Gilley's. I only use his real name because he gave interviews and let himself be photographed for MSM.

Again confirmed by Canepa, even though Jake and Angela knew the baby wasn't Jake's they wanted Hanna to put Jake on the birth certificate and pretend it was his baby. Angela offered to set up a crib at her house according to Chris's best friend.

Hanna posted publicly on Facebook that the baby was CG's baby and even sent him a sonogram of the baby he put on his Facebook page. But Hanna said he wasn't interested in or involved with her pregnancy and she was going to have CH, her new partner, raise the baby.

I read those Facebook posts. Frankie disagreed with CH raising the baby and they argued over Facebook etc...
Jake knew all this. He was reading Hanna's Facebook and also spying on Hanna's Facebook Messages.

Anyway, if Jake had known that the new baby really was his he never would have left the new infant lying in blood for many many hours, no way. He made sure his daughter was not at the scenes. Jake admitted he knew the baby could get hungry and admitted it could be a long time until the baby was discovered. Just no way a Wagner would endanger their own baby. They are too controlling and possessive to do that.

Jake is a liar. So telling Chris Graves - his go-to journalist - that there was a 50% chance he was the father was more BS from Jake who spent 5 years lying until the DP scared him into confessing. Jake would have spent the rest of his life lying if he hadn't been arrested and charged with the crimes.

I also think Jake may not have killed Hanna so soon if the new baby really was his. I think he would have tried to use that strong tie with Hanna to win her back. At least try one more time using the baby as leverage. Letting CH, Hannah's new love, know that he Jake would be the baby's father and help raise her, giving Jake more power over CH and more leverage with Hanna, a stronger tie to Hanna.

Thank you for your reply.
While reading it I remembered something about Jake wanting his name on the birth certificate. His reasoning is so strange, but so is saying “We didn’t want to murder anyone but we had no other choice.” Iirc I think he went to the hospital the next day to “check on the baby” or some bs like that. Maybe he wanted to collect every baby he could to give to his mama? I do believe the Wagners are delusional.
Imo Hanna’s bf seemed like a nice guy when he was testifying. Although you never know. Still, it takes a special kind of man to commit himself to a woman who has one child & another one on the way when neither of them are his biological children. He said he picked out the new baby’s name as well. Like most survivors & insiders he did the “woulda, coulda, shoulda” thing: “if only I had/had not done such & such, they might still be alive” dialogue. Circular reasoning like that can drive a person crazy, bur I’d be willing to bet that most of us have done it.

 

[blackbeary]

If i didnt work so much id be able to answer this myself, but which property was signed to JW and GW4 to skip inheritance taxes? I seem to remember GW3 and AW being skipped and it went straight to the boys. Was it Flying W? If so, does FW hold life estate? All very interesting.

Lord let it be that the wagner empire ends up in the hands of Rhodens and Gilleys

I believe that George said on the stand , that grandma put her property in her family's name's, already, to avoid inheritance taxes.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you for your reply.
While reading it I remembered something about Jake wanting his name on the birth certificate. His reasoning is so strange, but so is saying “We didn’t want to murder anyone but we had no other choice.” Iirc I think he went to the hospital the next day to “check on the baby” or some bs like that. Maybe he wanted to collect every baby he could to give to his mama? I do believe the Wagners are delusional.
Imo Hanna’s bf seemed like a nice guy when he was testifying. Although you never know. Still, it takes a special kind of man to commit himself to a woman who has one child & another one on the way when neither of them are his biological children. He said he picked out the new baby’s name as well. Like most survivors & insiders he did the “woulda, coulda, shoulda” thing: “if only I had/had not done such & such, they might still be alive” dialogue. Circular reasoning like that can drive a person crazy, bur I’d be willing to bet that most of us have done it.

Here is what Jake said about going to the hospital to check on the baby - quote from article:

Jake Wagner, 23, said there's a 50/50 chance he's Kylie's father. He and Hanna Rhoden dated for nearly three years before they welcomed her half-sister, Sophia, now 2 1/2 years old. If Wagner is her father, that would mean her half-sister would become her full sister.

And there is nothing Wagner would like more, he said, fondly recalling how he pulled the tiny sock off her itty, bitty foot shortly after she was born on April 17. He was checking for a hammer index toe: A Wagner family trait.

He's almost sure, he said, that he saw that bend. It's the hope he holds onto these days.

After this article came out, often on social media posters would refer to the Wagners as the Hammer Toe Clan or Family.

Pike County: 'That's all we've got left. Just those kids.'

As authorities continue to investigate the Rhoden family killings, at least three families are working to gain custody of the babies left behind.

www.cincinnati.com

 

[ohioexpat63]

Are the judge's hands tied at sentencing with the guilty charges? Is it LWOP automatic or CAN it be something less? I am expecting LWOP but I am curious

 

[ohioexpat63]

Watching him breathe, during the reading of the jury, and being in a county jail for four years, I think it's set in already. The prison will be a new environment but probably a welcome change compared to county lockup. No one saw the trial in there, most likely, and if they did, he's probably not too very much hated. JW on the other hand, coward of cowards, rat of rats... G4 didn't rat out his family, he faced the 13 1/2, gambled, and lost. He's already missed four years with his son, and each year, holidays will fade into nothing more than a day that he gets soupy turkey and returns to the day-room, or his cell. He was already in prison in the family he was born into. He'll miss living in freedom to hunt and watch his son grow up, but, he'll adapt like all the others adapt.

You are probably right. He has no choice but adapt or die. He should have done the right thing and dimed out his family. 8 lives lost, untold number of people affected, etc...I think most of us here posting would have put a stop to murders before they occurred. As a human I do feel a little empathy, but then I think of the carnage, destruction left in the W4 wake.

 

[evelezrn]

Thank you to everyone who has been posting things on the media & timeline thread. It's so helpful for finding information.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Speaking of "swooping in and caring for the baby" Jake said after the murders:

Quote from article:

But if he isn't Kylie's dad, and if the courts deem another man suitable to care for her, he will step aside -- at least partially.

"I'm not going to take her," Wagner said. "But I will want mandatory visitation in order to see her regularly."

Note him acting all controlling by saying "I'm not going to take her," and "mandatory visitation." And Angie said the 2 sisters would really need each other.

I am sure the Wagners never tried to keep the 2 sister's close. Hopefully, their new families do.

Pike County: 'That's all we've got left. Just those kids.'

As authorities continue to investigate the Rhoden family killings, at least three families are working to gain custody of the babies left behind.

www.cincinnati.com

These statements show how truly nuts Jake (and the rest of these people) are. As if any court would give his "visitation" for a child that isn't his.

 

[Dudly]

I believe that George said on the stand , that grandma put her property in her family's name's, already, to avoid inheritance taxes.

The Peterson Road property was in JW’s and GWIV’s name to avoid taxes etc., from GWIII AND AW. I think all of FW’s properties are in trusts of some kind…
MOO

 

[CIA Team Member]

Are trust funds protected from lawsuit?

A living trust does not protect your assets from a lawsuit. Living trusts are revocable, meaning you remain in control of the assets and you are the legal owner until your death. Because you legally still own these assets, someone who wins a verdict against you can likely gain access to these assets.

 

[Dudly]

Are trust funds protected from lawsuit?

A living trust does not protect your assets from a lawsuit. Living trusts are revocable, meaning you remain in control of the assets and you are the legal owner until your death. Because you legally still own these assets, someone who wins a verdict against you can likely gain access to these assets.

Difference Between Revocable and Irrevocable Trusts in Ohio - Obenour

When it comes to estate planning, there are many options that grantors can take to protect their assets, take care of beneficiaries after passing, and ensure that their estate is properly managed. One question that many people face is whether to opt for a revocable trust or an irrevocable trust...

www.dolawfirm.com

 

[CIA Team Member]

Difference Between Revocable and Irrevocable Trusts in Ohio - Obenour

When it comes to estate planning, there are many options that grantors can take to protect their assets, take care of beneficiaries after passing, and ensure that their estate is properly managed. One question that many people face is whether to opt for a revocable trust or an irrevocable trust...

www.dolawfirm.com

Yup. The site won't allow me to post the irrevocable trusts info...buggy for me today.

 

[Cool Cats]

Are the judge's hands tied at sentencing with the guilty charges? Is it LWOP automatic or CAN it be something less? I am expecting LWOP but I am curious

I expect if it's not LWOP it will be 160 years etc...In other words, too many years for him to not be in prison for life. Just no way for him to get out, ever, in my opinion. There are 22 charges plus some charges have 3 specifications with them that can add to his sentence, like using a silencer for one and using an automatic weapon etc... I do not think he will ever come up for parole and if he did what parole board would release him on 8 aggravated murder charges and 4 aggravated burglary charges, all with specifications, plus TEN other charges? None.

MSN

From article:

Each of the eight counts of aggravated murder carries a minimum of 20 years, and that's before additional years are added on for using a gun.

If Pike Co. Common Pleas Court Judge Randy Deering issues just that, and says they have to be served consecutively, it's a total of 160 years – not including all the counts of burglary, forgery, obstructing justice, and conspiracy that Wagner also faces.

Jurors found Wagner guilty of helping kill eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families in April of 2016.

Local 12's legal expert and Cincinnati defense lawyer Jay Clark says Judge Deering will probably issue a harsh sentence.

"I would expect this judge to run them all consecutive. Even if he gave him the minimum of 20-25, eight times 20 is 160 years before he is parole eligible,” Clark said.

 

[justtrish]

I expect if it's not LWOP it will be 160 years etc...In other words, too many years for him to not be in prison for life. Just no way for him to get out, ever, in my opinion. There are 22 charges plus some charges have 3 specifications with them that can add to his sentence, like using a silencer for one and using an automatic weapon etc... I do not think he will ever come up for parole and if he did what parole board would release him on 8 aggravated murder charges and 4 aggravated burglary charges, all with specifications, plus TEN other charges? None.

MSN

From article:

Each of the eight counts of aggravated murder carries a minimum of 20 years, and that's before additional years are added on for using a gun.

If Pike Co. Common Pleas Court Judge Randy Deering issues just that, and says they have to be served consecutively, it's a total of 160 years – not including all the counts of burglary, forgery, obstructing justice, and conspiracy that Wagner also faces.

Jurors found Wagner guilty of helping kill eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families in April of 2016.

Local 12's legal expert and Cincinnati defense lawyer Jay Clark says Judge Deering will probably issue a harsh sentence.

"I would expect this judge to run them all consecutive. Even if he gave him the minimum of 20-25, eight times 20 is 160 years before he is parole eligible,” Clark said.

I hope the judge gives him 8 LWOP plus years for the additional charges.

Since George took the stand and with the verdict reached being guilty on all, it's clear then the jurors think he was involved and that makes his testimony all lies. It's one thing to allow your lawyer to defend you and make sure you get a fair trial and it's something else entirely to get on the stand and lie. The judge should send a very clear message by giving him the maximum allowed on each charge.

 

[Puzzles8]

The picture of George that I've been waiting so long to see. A beaten man.

Sentencing date set for George Wagner IV - Scioto Valley Guardian

Scioto Valley Guardian

sciotovalleyguardian.com

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

You are probably right. He has no choice but adapt or die. He should have done the right thing and dimed out his family. 8 lives lost, untold number of people affected, etc...I think most of us here posting would have put a stop to murders before they occurred. As a human I do feel a little empathy, but then I think of the carnage, destruction left in the W4 wake.

It's not really about empathy. I'm just stating the facts. It will become his everyday life after a while. He's in there for life, probably high security. He's already had to adapt to the county. State Prison will be quite different but he's got some data to go on already. How to greet another inmate, how to speak to guards, etc... Prisons function like small cities for the most part. He can follow the day-to-day rules and orders, and then cry and pound his bunk at night, for the rest of his life, or decide to make the best of it, hopefully, become a better person, and do something positive with his life there. It's really up to him. Pastor Jake has come upon a persona that he'll likely work into the ground for gain.

 

[Sillybilly]

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[Lonicera]

Are Hanna’s daughters connected? Will they be able to see their cousins? Their uncles and aunts Rhoden and Manley? Do we know that today?