OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

[GoBuckeyes]

Interesting theory, I hadn't considered that.
Under that theory, I would also include the "pastor" from her Lucasville Church on Mt. Etna.
She owns the church and property. Might the revenge conversation have been held there? Maybe tapped into or overheard there?

That's a very interesting theory. Who was the pastor who said he was "ecstatic" over the arrests? Maybe one pastor confided in another in this case, and he's ecstatic about the arrest and his friend's increased safety because of it??

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I had a link below:

Ohio AG: Unknown if cockfighting, marijuana grows are relevant in killings

Excerpt:

The one thing I saw were chickens out there. These would be cockfighting chickens,” he said explaining his wife, Fran DeWine, could identify the types of coops used for fighting chickens from the aerial views of the scene shown on television.

In his defense, I wouldn't have a clue about that either.

 

[Cool Cats]

D

 

[Cool Cats]

That's a very interesting theory. Who was the pastor who said he was "ecstatic" over the arrests? Maybe one pastor confided in another in this case, and he's ecstatic about the arrest and his friend's increased safety because of it??

Phil Fulton, pastor at Union Hill Church in Adams County, said he was “ecstatic” when he found out about the arrests.

Kelly Cinereski, an Alaskan pastor and friend of the family, told the Dayton Daily News he was shocked by their arrests. "These people wept over dogs, I can't imagine them taking people's lives," he said.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Rita Newcomb in court

No one in the room yet

Thank you for the transcript, Betty. It seems that asking for the audio after already receiving a transcript of the same portion of the GJ proceedings was just another stall tactic. Maybe I'm giving lawyers, or at least hers, too much credit, but the way I see it, they'd be competent enough to ask for both audio and video at the same point in time. I always thought being a lawyer required a fairly high degree of organized thought. I'd like to see penalties levied against lawyers who so obviously waste the court's and tax payers' resources. Thoughts??

 

[Cool Cats]

IDK, but some of us researched this on the internet a while back. IIRC, information shared about GJ proceedings is kept secret. There are some small exceptions, like this - a defendant's own testimony - but for the most part it's still kept secret. Most articles site a few Supreme Court cases (IIRC) that confirm this, especially about identity of people who serve on the jury.

Yes some of us researched this and yes GJ Witnesses are suppose to be anonymous. But here we have 3 of the Wagner attorneys requesting a lot of GJ information, transcripts and witness names. One reason to keep the witnesses private is to protect them, in case someone wants to harm them or stop them from testifying.

Can you imagine your a GJ witness for the prosecution against the Wagners and your told the Wagners will never know you testified against them, then you find out the Wagners are trying to get both your name and your testimony? And you find out they want revenge "against anyone who goes against them." I would be banging on Junk's door at this point.

WAGNER, ANGELA JO + Gw4 and GW3

12/14/2018 (8) DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO TRANSCRIBE THE GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS PRIOR TO TRIAL FILED
12/14/2018 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR A PRE-TRIAL COPY OF THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS FILED
12/14/2018 (10) DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISCLOSE NAMES OF GRAND JURY WITNESSES FILED

 

[Cool Cats]

What Is It Like to Serve on a Grand Jury? - WELL, in THIS House...
The most important thing to note is that all grand jury proceedings are completely secret. For a trial jury, only their deliberations are private, because the court proceedings are public. But for the grand jury, everything happens behind closed doors. There are severe penalties involved in breaking that secrecy, and in the over 20 years the DA has served, he says they’ve never had a grand jury leak.

Grand jury proceedings are supposed to be secret, but that secrecy can become harder to police once subpoenas go out and the circle of who knows about the grand jury widens.

What is Grand Jury Duty? (with pictures)
The grand jurors remain anonymous, even to the judge and the defense attorney.

What Are Grand Juries?
The grand jury operates in secrecy and the normal rules of evidence do not apply.

How Does a Grand Jury Work? - FindLaw
However, unlike the vast majority of trials, grand jury proceedings are kept in strict confidence. This serves two purposes:

1. It encourages witnesses to speak freely and without fear of retaliation.
2. It protects the potential defendant's reputation in case the jury does not decide to indict.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I knew from people breeding them for plumage and colors. They can be as pretty as they are mean. They have a rather long neck.

Dudly, are you quoting Fran or commenting that you have known people who breed them. I'm sorry. My brain is on about 20% power today.

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

I always thought Grand Jury proceedings were guaranteed to be secret. IMO, seems many rulings on these motions contradict that. But I have limited knowledge about this stuff.

(IIRC, FW's attorney actually wanted names of GJ members. Of course it was not granted though)

Does it happen often that defense team asks for live recordings and/or transcripts of GJ proceedings?

I think the W’s want this possibly so they can seek revenge I just saw about a witness getting killed in another murder a couple days ago. It happens

 

[Dudly]

Dudly, are you quoting Fran or commenting that you have known people who breed them. I'm sorry. My brain is on about 20% power today.

I've know people that bred show chickens and had the Gamecocks, too. I used to go to a lot of exotic animal auctions and swap meets years ago. I used to breed unusual small animals to sell as pets.

 

[Puzzles8]

I really don't feel the presence of chickens, even fighting chickens, at the Rhoden properties has played out as a logical motive in these murders.
MOO, the only connection might be illegal betting/illegal fighting.
From the limited evidence we've all seen so far in these cases, I think we can rule this out as a motive.
JMO, MOO, etc....

 

[Loomis124]

Yes some of us researched this and yes GJ Witnesses are suppose to be anonymous. But here we have 3 of the Wagner attorneys requesting a lot of GJ information, transcripts and witness names. One reason to keep the witnesses private is to protect them, in case someone wants to harm them or stop them from testifying.

Can you imagine your a GJ witness for the prosecution against the Wagners and your told the Wagners will never know you testified against them, then you find out the Wagners are trying to get both your name and your testimony? And you find out they want revenge "against anyone who goes against them." I would be banging on Junk's door at this point.

WAGNER, ANGELA JO + Gw4 and GW3

12/14/2018 (8) DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO TRANSCRIBE THE GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS PRIOR TO TRIAL FILED
12/14/2018 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR A PRE-TRIAL COPY OF THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS FILED
12/14/2018 (10) DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISCLOSE NAMES OF GRAND JURY WITNESSES FILED

Go Cool Cats! You have hit the nail on the head! IMO, Judge Deering is walking a slippery slope in allowing defense attorneys like Gerlach to waltz in and talk him into putting the GJ proceedings on trial. Really, really worrisome to me. JMO.

 

[Betty P]

Go Cool Cats! You have hit the nail on the head! IMO, Judge Deering is walking a slippery slope in allowing defense attorneys like Gerlach to waltz in and talk him into putting the GJ proceedings on trial. Really, really worrisome to me. JMO.

All the judge allowed today was the transcript of RN's testimony, nothing more. He'll also allow the audio version of just her testimony. It doesn't sound like he's going to allow any more than that.

JMO, the defense attorneys asking for lists of people at GJ hearings, etc. is just an attempt to impugn the objectivity or reputation of the jurors, prosecutors, investigators, etc. The defense thinks if they discredit the GJ proceedings, it allows all the charges to be thrown out. Very much wishful thinking on their part.

It's a plot that millions of other defense attorneys have probably tried before, to no avail. As much as anything, it's part of an overall strategy to cause potential jurors to view the prosecution's case with suspicion and skepticism.

Same overall strategy OJ Simpson's attorneys used, but I don't think it will help the Wags. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

All the judge allowed today was the transcript of RN's testimony, nothing more. He'll also allow the audio version of just her testimony. It doesn't sound like he's going to allow any more than that.

JMO, the defense attorneys asking for lists of people at GJ hearings, etc. is just an attempt to impugn the objectivity or reputation of the jurors, prosecutors, investigators, etc. The defense thinks if they discredit the GJ proceedings, it allows all the charges to be thrown out. Very much wishful thinking on their part.

It's a plot that millions of other defense attorneys have probably tried before, to no avail. As much as anything, it's part of an overall strategy to cause potential jurors to view the prosecution's case with suspicion and skepticism.

Same overall strategy OJ Simpson's attorneys used, but I don't think it will help the Wags. JMO

Thanks, Betty. I sure hope you're right. He just seems extra lenient to RN, and she smiles and laughs before and after, as if she knows they've got this. IMO, Sickening. "Ad nauseam" was AC's description of the extent RN and AW talked on the phone about everything from A to Z. AC stands her ground. But Deering ignored her and dances on by. Just the same as when he allowed RN to take the stand and Gerlach to question the court reporter. Ridiculous!! JMO

 

[Loomis124]

I think it's just some good natured joshing. Mike and Fran are such mild-mannered, homespun kind of people it's humorous to imagine they would know anything about cockfighting. I can't think of a less likely couple, unless it were, say Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter or the Queen of England.

DeWine's comment about Fran's observation that day was a very small bit of levity in the midst of a horrific, terrible day. That day was a nightmare for the general public (many times more for family and friends) and the news media covering it. DeWine's remark (unintentionally) gave us all a brief, short moment when we almost smiled during a day of sadness, shock and horror. JMO

I respectfully disagree, Betty. The joshing is anthing but "good-natured" and there is no reason for the DeWines to be discussed in this manner on this thread. None. MHOO.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks, Betty. I sure hope you're right. He just seems extra lenient to RN, and she smiles and laughs before and after, as if she knows they've got this. IMO, Sickening. "Ad nauseam" was AC's description of the extent RN and AW talked on the phone about everything from A to Z. AC stands her ground. But Deering ignored her and dances on by. Just the same as when he allowed RN to take the stand and Gerlach to question the court reporter. Ridiculous!! JMO

Yeah, allowing RN to take the stand last time seemed unusual, JMO/IANAL. Today, he seemed to be saying it's time to move on, there's nothing more they're going to grant her attorneys on this. Bring it up in trial if you have some evidence. AC has been pretty clear and the judge has probably looked up the case law himself. I kind of get the feeling he hasn't had to hear challenges to the GJ process like that in a long time, if ever.

 

[Loomis124]

D

 

[Betty P]

I respectfully disagree, Betty. The joshing is anthing but "good-natured" and there is no reason for the DeWines to be discussed in this manner on this thread. None. MHOO.

Well, speaking for myself, it's good natured kidding. I'll always remember him saying it that day and kind of smiling at the thought of Fran weighing in on the rooster houses. I had a gr grandfather who would weigh in on rare occasions with unintentionally "off the wall" observations that would crack everyone up.

 

[Loomis124]

Yeah, allowing RN to take the stand last time seemed unusual, JMO/IANAL. Today, he seemed to be saying it's time to move on, there's nothing more they're going to grant her attorneys on this. Bring it up in trial if you have some evidence. AC has been pretty clear and the judge has probably looked up the case law himself. I kind of get the feeling he hasn't had to hear challenges to the GJ process like that in a long time, if ever.

He seems clueless at times. I'm not even an attorney, but common sense is pretty easy. I just see him being way too lenient to get justice done in these cases. My thinking is...if he succumbs to a puppy like Gerlach, what is going to happen when the Pit Bulls arrive? JMO

 

[Betty P]

Here's some of the latest news from RN's pre-trial hearing today

Trial for grandmother facing charges in Pike County massacre pushed back

Rita Newcomb is charged with obstruction of justice, perjury, and three counts of forgery.

Her trial was originally scheduled for Oct. 21, but during Newcomb’s final pretrial hearing Monday Judge Randy Deering agreed to postpone the trial to ensure the availability of one of the investigators.

A new trial date will be announced pending the approval of the prosecuting and defense attorneys.