OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

[Ann99]

Oh, but she did! She had Crim. Rule 16...the rules of Discovery...on her side. Gerlach could not defend his lateness in bringing forth this Discovery. AC simply held him to the rules of Discovery.

Yes! In the most clear and straightforward terms, that is correct, in my opinion.
AC simply held him to rules of discovery, and made that clear to Judge Deering, who at that time had to realize AC had Rules of Discovery on her side.

Something I didn’t understand - did Junk have receipt of these materials and not share or forward on to AC?

Regarding Sheriff Reader as a witness. That could be very complicated.

From what I remember, Reader expressed concern for the safety of the other children, but made no specific reference of concern for S. She did end up with the W’s.
I don’t remember any statements Reader made regarding opposing placing S with Wagners. Can anyone comment? I could be incorrect.
If Gerlach did intend to call Reader to testify about that matter and Reader never opposed publicly or on any record, it could be a sort of positive character reference for RN and W’s. This would serve RN and W’s.
All is my opinion.

 

[Betty P]

Thankx. I was wondering why it was being said that only Junk got the large discovery dump on the 13th --
the 198 files that were in Bruce Daily's possession.

According to your link it was because the 198 files were too cumbersome to be e-mailed, thus, for some unstated reason they were not served on the Special Prosecutors from the AG's office which would include Canepa and the newly appointed Special Prosecutor Anthony Pierson. Only Junk would have been served with them.

IIRC, the one Canepa referred to was a delivery of documents on 9 Nov. It was in one of the news articles, will try to find.

I'm working on another project, so am jumping in and out of WS. Recall reading Nov. 9 this morning.

ETA: Here's the article. Nvmnd, it was Gerlach accusing Canepa of dumping evidence on him on November 9.

Pike County Massacre: Trial for grandma charged with forgery delayed

Between Gerlach's unending word salad and the reporting on these recent events, it's hard to tell what's going on. It's a challenge for reporters to figure out what Gerlach is saying, he keeps twisting his words.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes! In the most clear and straightforward terms, that is correct, in my opinion.
AC simply held him to rules of discovery, and made that clear to Judge Deering, who at that time had to realize AC had Rules of Discovery on her side.

Something I didn’t understand - did Junk have receipt of these materials and not share or forward on to AC?

Regarding Sheriff Reader as a witness. That could be very complicated.

From what I remember, Reader expressed concern for the safety of the other children, but made no specific reference of concern for S. She did end up with the W’s.
I don’t remember any statements Reader made regarding opposing placing S with Wagners. Can anyone comment? I could be incorrect.
If Gerlach did intend to call Reader to testify about that matter and Reader never opposed publicly or on any record, it could be a sort of positive character reference for RN and W’s. This would serve RN and W’s.
All is my opinion.

The materials Junk received were too cumbersome to e-mail, they were served on Junk. Junk didn't get them till the Wednesday before trial. He didn't have time to mail them to Canepa. Defense made it awkward all the way around by only serving Junk when there was a serious time crunch.

Reader did not mention Sophia but did mention the 3 children who were at the crime scenes that night. He felt the killers did leave those children in danger that night.

"...Reader disagreed, saying that even though the children weren’t shot, and given the age of especially the newborn, they very well could have died, too, if the scenes had not been quickly discovered..."

Pike County sheriff: Rhoden children still in danger

EDIT: Reader may have mentioned S behind closed doors at the custody hearings but not publicly.

 

[Betty P]

The materials Junk received were too cumbersome to e-mail, they were served on Junk. Junk didn't get them till the Wednesday before trial. He didn't have time to mail them to Canepa. Defense made it awkward all the way around by only serving Junk when there was a serious time crunch.

Reader did not mention Sophia but did mention the 3 children who were at the crime scenes that night. He felt the killers did leave those children in danger that night.

"...Reader disagreed, saying that even though the children weren’t shot, and given the age of especially the newborn, they very well could have died, too, if the scenes had not been quickly discovered..."

Pike County sheriff: Rhoden children still in danger

We probably don't know exactly what was said in the custody hearing. It would have been closed to the news media, pretty sure. If Reader said in court that he was concerned about the W's having custody of S, he wouldn't have relayed that information to the news media or public.

ETA: As for the large volume of evidence documents that were too large to email to AC, shall we assume that Gerlach hasn't heard of an external hard drive? The same way AC delivered discovery to him?

This was a stunt pulled by Gerlach and he'll probably get into trouble for it. He should.

Re the custody hearing in 2016 from the link above:

Ohio law presumes Juvenile Court hearings to be open and that some (but not all) of the accompanying records are a matter of public record. In the case of the Rhoden children, Pike County Children Services has asked Rosenberger to close the courtroom and seal the records, saying that the potential danger to the children outweighs any public good.

The Cincinnati Enquirer formally objected to that closure, and its attorney, Jack Greiner, argued the case Thursday. The hearing on whether to close the matter in the future was held in open court.

The hearing was closed, but it sounds like Reader gave a brief report to the news media, or at least to Holly Zachariah of the Columbus Dispatch. It's possible he said more, but did not divulge that info.

And, yes, then Rosenberger did grant custody of S to the W's, and later they took off to AK. When that happened, a lot of WS members were pointing angry fingers at Rosenberger and the rest. Reader was probably the only one who suspected the W's then (and for a long time). MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

IIRC, the one Canepa referred to was a delivery of documents on 9 Nov. It was in one of the news articles, will try to find.

I'm working on another project, so am jumping in and out of WS. Recall reading Nov. 9 this morning.

Thank you! Any information (on all 5 of these Cases) is good information since there is a gag order and non- disclosure order. I appreciate your and everyone's research and opinions.

 

[Cool Cats]

We probably don't know exactly what was said in the custody hearing. It would have been closed to the news media, pretty sure. If Reader said in court that he was concerned about the W's having custody of S, he wouldn't have relayed that information to the news media or public.

ETA: As for the large volume of evidence documents that were too large to email to AC, shall we assume that Gerlach hasn't heard of an external hard drive? The same way AC delivered discovery to him?

This was a stunt pulled by Gerlach and he'll probably get into trouble for it. He should.

Stunt...Yes....for sure..!

Right, we don't know what Reader said in the--closed to media--custody hearings. Publicly he didn't mention Sophia.

 

[Betty P]

Stunt...Yes....for sure..!

Right, we don't know what Reader said in the--closed to media--custody hearings. Publicly he didn't mention Sophia.

If Reader went out of the closed hearing and gave that much information to a reporter, he was trying to send a message. We just weren't sure at the time what he was trying to say. Still don't know for sure, but it could have been a hint about the W's.

I recall at the time it seemed unusual that he would make a big point of getting this out to the news media and of emphasizing how passionate he felt about the surviving little ones still not being safe. He was barking pretty loud. A lot of us couldn't figure it out. I admit I was one who, at that time, didn't think the W's were involved. I was still thinking it was some bad folks that CR Sr. had met up with and seen or learned something other people didn't want him to know.

ETA: The defense attorneys definitely don't want Reader testifying about his suspicions of the Wags. No wonder they went after him on trumped up charges.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

To try to potentially discount and taint the Reader brother's testimony at the trials of the W4.

I think Gerlach is working with the W4's defense attorneys to try to sabotage the trials of the W4. I think they cooked up this stunt last minute. Convicting RN really wouldn't carry much of a consequence for her, but would adversely affect the W4's trials. By making RN's trial become a "poison pill" of sort, the prosecution might be persuaded to dismiss RN's charges.

At this point, it appears the prosecution has a very solid evidentiary case. The defense might think their only chance now is to question the credibility of the evidence collected and the reputation of the state's witnesses.

JMO, I think I recall that Gerlach represented Billy in some of his past legal brushes with the law. I can probably guess who is paying him.

JMO, MOO, etc.

If that's true that Gerlach has represented Billy or any of the Ws in the past, it seems (jmoo) like there would be a conflict of interest and/or grounds for appeal?? (I sure hope not.) This awful family has already cost the Rs unimaginable horrors.

 

[Loomis124]

‘Apparently it was only to “the prosecutor” and not to all of the prosecutions team. Dropbox - State's Motion Continuance Rita.pdf - Simplify your life

It only went to Junk, per this document

 

[Puzzles8]

If that's true that Gerlach has represented Billy or any of the Ws in the past, it seems (jmoo) like there would be a conflict of interest and/or grounds for appeal?? (I sure hope not.) This awful family has already cost the Rs unimaginable horrors.

I couldn't agree more, these family's deserve some peace and closure.

Gerlach was Billy's attorney in the road rage incident with a gun:

"Frank Gerlach — Billy Wagner’s attorney at the time — reviewed his 2001 files at the newspaper’s request. Neither Gerlach’s recollection nor his records indicate a gun was held to anyone’s head."
Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Found it! Deering giving the green light to Jake's attorneys to talk to all defense attorneys and all co-defendants, including the grandmothers, in these cases:

Jake's pretrial hearing Jan 24 2019

Listen at 30:00
through 37:28 and following...

Great find! Thank you!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Hi. Just to add to your Ms Levy link. She finished or updated her article at 9pm. Too big to upload.

Great, complete article for anyone wising to use link.


Angenette Levy on Twitter

-

Thank you for sharing!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Yes! In the most clear and straightforward terms, that is correct, in my opinion.
AC simply held him to rules of discovery, and made that clear to Judge Deering, who at that time had to realize AC had Rules of Discovery on her side.

Something I didn’t understand - did Junk have receipt of these materials and not share or forward on to AC?

Regarding Sheriff Reader as a witness. That could be very complicated.

From what I remember, Reader expressed concern for the safety of the other children, but made no specific reference of concern for S. She did end up with the W’s.
I don’t remember any statements Reader made regarding opposing placing S with Wagners. Can anyone comment? I could be incorrect.
If Gerlach did intend to call Reader to testify about that matter and Reader never opposed publicly or on any record, it could be a sort of positive character reference for RN and W’s. This would serve RN and W’s.
All is my opinion.

JMOO, IANAL, Reader isn't trained as an agent of Children's Services, and he must follow the law. Just as they couldn't make arrests until they had enough evidence, suspicions aren't enough to take a child away from family. Sometimes that protection the family enjoys works, and, very unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't. I think on cross AC will paint a very clear picture. MOO

 

[Myland]

Jmo Reader was very concerned with the three little ones that were there that night, we all agree on that. But What I don’t understand is why would the WAgners go back months later and harm those three? What would be the benefit of it? If reader thought at the time it was Wagner’s what made him think the Wagner’s would harm 3 babies months later? Jmo

 

[Myland]

Sheriff: At least 2 killers in Pike County slayings

 

[Johnny B Bad]

S

Jmo Reader was very concerned with the three little ones that were there that night, we all agree on that. But What I don’t understand is why would the WAgners go back months later and harm those three? What would be the benefit of it? If reader thought at the time it was Wagner’s what made him think the Wagner’s would harm 3 babies months later? Jmo

SERIAL KILLERS, JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Charles Reader cry like a small kid at what he had seen in the trailers, it was monster that killed the Rhodens and Gilley, JMO

 

[CSIDreamer]

Jmo Reader was very concerned with the three little ones that were there that night, we all agree on that. But What I don’t understand is why would the WAgners go back months later and harm those three? What would be the benefit of it? If reader thought at the time it was Wagner’s what made him think the Wagner’s would harm 3 babies months later? Jmo

One of those babies was old enough to potentially ID the killers if you think about it. That baby could have had an unusual reaction at the sight of them.

 

[Merrygirl]

Thankx. I was wondering why it was being said that only Junk got the large discovery dump on the 13th --
the 198 files that were in Bruce Daily's possession.

According to your link it was because the 198 files were too cumbersome to be e-mailed, thus, for some unstated reason they were not served on the Special Prosecutors from the AG's office which would include Canepa and the newly appointed Special Prosecutor Anthony Pierson. Only Junk would have been served with them.

looks to me like they could have made them pdf then zip them to email. We do that all the time.

 

[Loomis124]

Thank you.
I read there was a pool of 100 perspective jurors there today.
I can't remember which article but I'll try to find it.

Rutledge203, I missed the article about there being 100 there! Can you please share the article? TY