OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

[Freddy AD]

So she has the money to pay for this lawyer?

IYO?

 

[Fat Old Man]

I still think they was dealing not only with boarder agents. But BCI. and FBI. when crossing the boarders. And that is where they used the fake papers. JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

jmo but why George’s documents he already had legal custody didn’t he?

That is a very good question.
How did G4 receive full custody of his child and was able to take the child across international borders through Canada?
Are there legal custody documents?
Was Bruce Dailey also the attorney that crafted the custody documents for G4?
Did the mother of G4's child agree to this custody arrangement?
Or, was she threatened in any way, like HMR might have been?

All JMO, but good questions that need to be answered...

JMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Tena]

I really believe RN may have sealed this case for the State. I would bet there is some kind of signed deposition telling all she knew, to bring about any plea negotiations for her. Something that will not be made public until needed. In the plea of guilty journal entry where it talks about any promises made, it states See Defendant's Agreement, evidently not public document. We just have to wait to see what else is out there. IMO

 

[Puzzles8]

I really believe RN may have sealed this case for the State. I would bet there is some kind of signed deposition telling all she knew, to bring about any plea negotiations for her. Something that will not be made public until needed. In the plea of guilty journal entry where it talks about any promises made, it states See Defendant's Agreement, evidently not public document. We just have to wait to see what else is out there. IMO

Just the fact that the State has "delayed sentencing" speaks volumes to me.
That amounts to a strong State leverage if they need her to testify at any of the W4's trials.

Who knows, maybe the State has discovered many more documents in question that RN could be charged for in the future, in exchange for her testimony.

But, bottom line, my heart breaks for RN as a mother. Just MOO, I don't think RN has had an easy life and she may not have had a lot of positive role models in her life to teach her and support her to do the right thing.
Not an excuse but maybe an explanation.

Don't know anything about AW's upbringing either. But regardless, AW crossed that line when she expected her mother to lie to cover up the cold blooded murders of eight people.

JMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Rutledge203]

Betty, I don't believe Rita actually "pled" yesterday, did she? My understanding is that is what she has agreed to do. Anyone? JMO

She did plead GUILTY on Count 4 which was revised from Obstruction of Justice to Obstruction of Official Business which is a misdemeanor 2 (max 90 days; sentencing date not scheduled yet). She is still on bond and gag order and reports to court services.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.
You say something very interesting quote:

"Jake didn't give a rat's rear about seeing SW again. He did it because he hated Hanna for having the strength to leave him and move on with her life without him in it."

Now this is interesting because I've always thought about the Case as being all about Jake and Angela being insanely obsessed over custody, which they were of course, but there is more to it, from what you say.

That it could have been even more important to Jake that he stop Hanna from moving on with her life and loving other men. The classic "if I can't have her no one can."

I'll look for the article if anyone wants to see it but there is a MSM article that quotes Jake as saying that he thought "Hanna leaving was just a phase."
It was when he realized it wasn't just a phase, that she wasn't coming back, that he started planning murder.

They had picked out a specific date to get married in August 2015 and instead Hanna called off the wedding and was pregnant with another man's baby at that time. In the fall of 2015 she sent the bio father the ultrasound photo
and was in a serious relationship with another man. Even though she had broken up with the bio dad months earlier, she still didn't want to go back to Jake and chose somebody else to be with and to have in the new baby's life.

By that January of 2016 it was crystal clear to Jake that this was no phase, that for sure she wasn't coming back to him. According to the indictments they were planning the murders at this time.

So what you are saying really strongly is supported by this timeline of events.

Before the "laser focus" I thought Chris Sr. was the main target, after arrests I thought it was mostly about custody, but now I'm wondering if you could be right about what your saying about Jake.

Hummmm.....Opinion without links but will look for links if anyone wants to see articles.

It was when he realized it wasn't just a phase, that she wasn't coming back, that he started planning murder.

BBM
That is absolutely the way I see it.

If you think about the individual players in this tragedy you will see it was a fight between Jake and Hanna. They were the two main players. Those two are what this entire tragedy is centered around. They are the only connection between these two families.

Hanna left. Jake saw she meant what she said and wasn't coming back. That she was moving on with someone else. Remember he had control of Hanna since she was 13. She grew up under his shadow. 6 long years he had control over her, then she broke away from him. Went back to her parents for protection. Maybe Jake did love SW, but when Hanna left his love for SW was overshadowed by his hatred for Hanna for leaving him. The others are peripheral players. Parents dragged into the fight taking up for their kids. Brothers dragged in taking up for their siblings. Uncles and cousins siding with their kin.

It's a scenario that is played out day after day, year after year in this country. Parents go through extremely bitter custody battles. But it is not about the kids. Never. It's all about control. Revenge. Spite. And the kids become pawns to be fought over. And it often ends in the death of one parent. Sometimes if one parent is bitter enough and has enough hatred they kill the other parent's entire family. Mostly because that family is protecting his spouse, or as he sees it, keeping her from him.

But if a parent truly loved their child and was looking out for that child's best interest they wouldn't kill that child's other parent and put them through the unbearable pain of losing a mother or father.

No, it ended exactly the way Jake wanted it to end, with them all dead. You can see it in his face every time he goes to court. The smiles, the sneers, the pleased expression on his face. Staring straight at the judge and smiling with his pleased smile that says it all about who instigated this entire affair. No hanging his head and wringing his hands like George, no hiding behind his hair like Angie, no looking down at the floor like Billy, no tears like Rita. Just a great big smile like the cat that swallowed the canary.

JMO

 

[Rutledge203]

I really believe RN may have sealed this case for the State. I would bet there is some kind of signed deposition telling all she knew, to bring about any plea negotiations for her. Something that will not be made public until needed. In the plea of guilty journal entry where it talks about any promises made, it states See Defendant's Agreement, evidently not public document. We just have to wait to see what else is out there. IMO

YES. I agree. All documents have been sealed per Angenette Levy (reporter).

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have only given my opinion on the matter. I have no way to know who is paying her attorney fees. In your opinion how is she paying for this attorney to do all the work?

IDK. Most of the time if you can't pay for an attorney the judge appoints an attorney to represent you. That is how it is always been as far as I know.
JMO

 

[Rutledge203]

Jmo my big question is why does Gerlach want the recording still?

To protect his client. Has to be part of his case file I would think. Moo

 

[Freddy AD]

So she has the money to pay for this lawyer?

IYO?

I really believe RN may have sealed this case for the State. I would bet there is some kind of signed deposition telling all she knew, to bring about any plea negotiations for her. Something that will not be made public until needed. In the plea of guilty journal entry where it talks about any promises made, it states See Defendant's Agreement, evidently not public document. We just have to wait to see what else is out there. IMO

Great post, and I hope you are right. I hope Rita gave them what they needed.

 

[Freddy AD]

IDK. Most of the time if you can't pay for an attorney the judge appoints an attorney to represent you. That is how it is always been as far as I know.
JMO

Good call. I didn’t see his name amongst the court appointed lawyers or public defenders when I looked a little bit but you’re probably right. I’ll look again later. Thanks

 

[Rutledge203]

That is a very good question.
How did G4 receive full custody of his child and was able to take the child across international borders through Canada?
Are there legal custody documents?
Was Bruce Dailey also the attorney that crafted the custody documents for G4?
Did the mother of G4's child agree to this custody arrangement?
Or, was she threatened in any way, like HMR might have been?

All JMO, but good questions that need to be answered...

JMO, MOO, etc.

GW4 and his son's mother regarding custody is a whole different story of twists and turns. I do believe he had custody of BW. That has made me question what the 3 forged custody papers/documents are exactly besides SWs. ???? I'm fairly new to WS so I do not know if GW4 and his ex were discussed, so I just will leave it like this.
So I am just offering my thoughts.

 

[Betty P]

Jmo I’ve haven’t seen where it was proven that “those documents” were used for that yet. Jmo

That will come during the trials for the 4W. They know.

 

[sunshineray]

I agree, Raisin, and I will be looking at her as a victim also. I don't think her conscience could take it anymore so she did the right thing.

Sorry, I think she just didn't want to go to jail for a long time. I sure hope AC gets RN in front of a judge, steno and camera and gets her deposed about anything and everything. People who can slaughter 8 human beings in the middle of the night in their beds, some with infants sleeping with them, can have someone murdered.

Dropping those multiply felony charges to misdemeanors is a big deal. She better put out good. I can't believe I missed all this. Thanks to all who transcribed and gave moment to moments!

 

[Antimony]

If I remember correctly, A Notarized document must have two witnesses that are not related to anyone in the document. Also a Notary may not act in the case of family. AI wonder who the witnesses were? I assume they have been contacted by LE.

 

[Dudly]

If I remember correctly, A Notarized document must have two witnesses that are not related to anyone in the document. Also a Notary may not act in the case of family. AI wonder who the witnesses were? I assume they have been contacted by LE.

Anything I have had notarized only required the Notary and the people signing the paper. The Notary must witness the people sign the papers. The Notary's seal and signature are legal proof the papers were signed in the Notary's presence by the people named on the papers.

 

[IceIce9]

.

 

[crazyhorse60]

This has nothing to do with the trials but I thought you all might find it as amusing as I did. I told you when I joined that I bought a horse from the W's years before all this happened. When I was there I took pictures and posted them on Facebook. This morning I woke up to a suggestion of a picture from there as a potential Christmas card pic.

 

[Ann99]

Anything I have had notarized only required the Notary and the people signing the paper. The Notary must witness the people sign the papers. The Notary's seal and signature are legal proof the papers were signed in the Notary's presence by the people named on the papers.

You are correct. This info. is very interesting, it’s specific to Ohio.
My opinion
Seems to me the W’s really missed the mark on this attempt
I can see how Grand Jury, questioning any of W’s or Rita regarding the documents, would recognize many things were not right, incorrect, outside of procedure. Same for Interrogatories, Depositions later.
I can’t see RN having “passed” a detailed questioning regarding her notary services.

Notarization Elements