OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

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Betty P said:
The documents are part of the custody battle, the intimidation of HMR before the murders and a major part of the motivation for the crime. The forgeries are an important part of the timeline leading up to the murders.

The prosecution will still have to present their evidence linking the 4W's to the Rhoden/Gilley murders, but the custody fight, forgeries, the cyber-stalking and monitoring of HMR, etc. are all part of the series of events and motive leading to the murders.

ETA: Remember, there's a family member who has told the news media they knew of the big fight when Wagners came to HMR's house 2 weeks before the murders to try to get her to sign custody documents. We know from previous news video (that has since been scrubbed) which family member told the news media about the W's confrontation over custody. That family hasn't given a lot of details about that confrontation to the news media, but it's possible there was some kind of violence involved between the W's and the R's.
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JMO, but I saw another family member's FB post telling what JW did to HR during that incident.
 
Betty P said:
The documents are part of the custody battle, the intimidation of HMR before the murders and a major part of the motivation for the crime. The forgeries are an important part of the timeline leading up to the murders.

The prosecution will still have to present their evidence linking the 4W's to the Rhoden/Gilley murders, but the custody fight, forgeries, the cyber-stalking and monitoring of HMR, etc. are all part of the series of events and motive leading to the murders.

ETA: Remember, there's a family member who has told the news media they knew of the big fight when Wagners came to HMR's house 2 weeks before the murders to try to get her to sign custody documents. We know from previous news video (that has since been scrubbed) which family member told the news media about the W's confrontation over custody. That family hasn't given a lot of details about that confrontation to the news media, but it's possible there was some kind of violence involved between the W's and the R's.
Click to expand...

JMO, but I saw another family member's FB post telling what JW did to HR during that incident.
ColMustard said:
Gerlach said the audio from the Grand Jury has no bearing on the plea agreement, but is still asking for it.

So how many clients does he have in this case?

RN made a plea deal, the other charges are dropped. Why does he need the GJ audio? A question JD or AC should ask.

Am I correct in remembering that Judge Deering came out of retirement for this case?
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IMO, yes to #1.

IDK to #2.
 
Loomis124 said:
I agree.
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Myland said:
Jmo but Angela could tell some big one to cover for this. Was those documents actually ever used or were they only found in a tote?jmo Rita can still get on a stand and lie she just can’t lie and say she signed them and must say Angela told her other than that she can still lie if needed. Jmo Rita made a point to make sure max was 90 days jmo
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Would they have used them to get to cross borders going to Alaska??
 
RAISINISBACK said:
It is no secret on here that I think Jake was the driving force behind these murders. He was the one who had the most to gain. It was Jake's show all the way. His GF, his child, his GF's family. I think Jake is a master manipulator who badgered his mother every day by saying that they were going to lose SW if Hanna decided not to let him see SW, by bringing in the crime Hanna's grandfather was charged with, by pounding it into everyone's head that if Hanna so decided no one would ever see the child again. Angie may have planned the murders, but Jake was the driving force behind the decision to carry them out. And he did it simply because Hanna had the strength to leave him and stay away from him. Keep in mind the first year after a woman leaves is the most dangerous for her and the murders occurred less than a year after she booted him to the curb.

JMO
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Thankx for your post.. Humm.. very interesting. Who is the mastermind of the whole thing? You think Jake, and that he manipulated and badgered Angela into it. But I wonder if Angela is really the true mastermind? So here's what we know:

Billy's lawyer actually said in MSM, link was posted a few times, that LE was calling his client the "mastermind" and the lawyer made sure the prospective "jury pool"
understood that Billy was too uneducated to pull something like that off with just a mere 7th grade education. However, he was likely proud of being called "Bad Billy" and he was a bona fide thief.

So then you have Angela, masterminding the custody documents, faking signatures left and right and telling her mom to lie. Wait--
Oh this isn't just about Angie asking mom to lie, Angie was wanting much more out of poor mom:

1.) Sit over a year on house arrest - very difficult to do for that long - tethered to an ankle monitor.
2.) Take 4, no wait, that's not enough, take 5 felony charges without complaint.
3.) Get arrested and have your picture put up for all the world to see and your reputation ruined - hopefully that will heal now.
4.) Make the news and videos for everyone to watch every time your in and out of court.
5.) Wait, sit in jail for a few nights and pray for bail, then come to court in handcuffs and jail scrubs for the world to see.
6.) Go through a trial with the 50/50 chance you will end up in prison.

Ok, and the real kicker? When your mom tells you that she's afraid that having phone conversations with you might get her thrown in jail (house arrest revoked) make sure to call and talk to her more!

So now we see how Angie treats her own mom.

Then there is the "golden boy" Jake. Born with a silver "grandma Fred spoon" in his mouth. Not alot known about him because you can't believe one dang word that comes out of his mouth or that he puts down on paper.

So who is the real mastermind? Such a good question.
 
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Betty P said:
I agree with your points. RN was backed into a legal corner with few options. Despite the defense attorney bluster in the news media and in court, the state has a strong case against RN and the 4 W's. Forgery is not difficult to prove with expert analysis and there's no way for a defendant to escape it. It's also possible the recorded conversations between RN and AW contained very incriminating evidence that RN couldn't avoid. RN was possibly heard colluding with AW to commit perjury re the forged documents.

I'm trying to be charitable to RN and am hopeful she does regret her actions. She did the right thing and she has a lot to think about. I wonder if she'll be able to offer other assistance to the prosecution. At this point, it seems she wasn't involved in the murders and wasn't aware AW and family were planning them. The state has kept in place the charges that she obstructed justice and hindered the investigation by lying to the GJ. It remains to be seen if there were other actions she took to obstruct justice.

ETA: If investigators had any evidence that RN had prior knowledge the murders were going to take place or knew they were being planned, she would have also been charged with murder. JMO, that indicates she didn't know.
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Betty, while you’re being charitable to RN, do you feel she can afford Gerlach? Everything I have read, she has no car, money, and is hardly able to pay her utilities. Could all be lies, but someone is paying that man. He has represented FW’s kin in the past, and that leads me to believe everyone is of the same interest. This is all my opinion, but that whole group has the same goal in mind. The phone calls and the “confidential reliable source”. FW has the capital. She lies as much as the rest, IMO. Going back to what I said earlier, they have a LOAD of evidence against the W4. We all know that. These trials are going to come down to the Judge, jury pool, and lawyers. I feel like the actual evidence will come through. Rita or no Rita. It will be no Rita after the plea agreement and what I’ve read.
 
Freddy AD said:
Betty, while you’re being charitable to RN, do you feel she can afford Gerlach? Everything I have read, she has no car, money, and is hardly able to pay her utilities. Could all be lies, but someone is paying that man. He has represented FW’s kin in the past, and that leads me to believe everyone is of the same interest. This is all my opinion, but that whole group has the same goal in mind. The phone calls and the “confidential reliable source”. FW has the capital. She lies as much as the rest, IMO. Going back to what I said earlier, they have a LOAD of evidence against the W4. We all know that. These trials are going to come down to the Judge, jury pool, and lawyers. I feel like the actual evidence will come through. Rita or no Rita. It will be no Rita after the plea agreement and what I’ve read.
Click to expand...
IMO
 
Cool Cats said:
Thankx for your post.. Humm.. very interesting. Who is the mastermind of the whole thing? You think Jake, and that he manipulated and badgered Angela into it. But I wonder if Angela is really the true mastermind? So here's what we know:

Billy's lawyer actually said in MSM, link was posted a few times, that LE was calling his client the "mastermind" and the lawyer made sure the prospective "jury pool"
understood that Billy was too uneducated to pull something like that off with just a mere 7th grade education. However, he was likely proud of being called "Bad Billy" and he was a bona fide thief.

So then you have Angela, masterminding the custody documents, faking signatures left and right and telling her mom to lie. Wait--
Oh this isn't just about Angie asking mom to lie, Angie was wanting much more out of poor mom:

1.) Sit over a year on house arrest - very difficult to do for that long - tethered to an ankle monitor.
2.) Take 4, no wait, that's not enough, take 5 felony charges without complaint.
3.) Get arrested and have your picture put up for all the world to see and your reputation ruined - hopefully that will heal now.
4.) Make the news and videos for everyone to watch every time your in and out of court.
5.)Wait, sit in jail for a few nights and pray for bail.
6.) Go through a trial with the 50/50 chance you will end up in prison.

Ok, and the real kicker? When your mom tells you that she's afraid that having phone conversations with you might get her thrown in jail (house arrest revoked) make sure to call and talk to her more!

So now we see how Angie treats her own mom.

Then there is the "golden boy" Jake. Born with a silver "grandma Fred spoon" in his mouth. Not alot known about him because you can't believe one dang word that comes out of his mouth or that he puts down on paper.

So who is the real mastermind? Such a good question.
Click to expand...
As I said, Angie may have planned the murders but Jake was the driving force behind it. He was the one standing over her shoulder telling her that she was never going to see SW again unless they killed Hanna and her whole family. Badgering her by telling her something drastic had to happen or she would never see the child she loved again. Who knows what he told his family to get them to go along? But one thing is certain. Jake had the most to gain. It was his show all the way. It ended exactly the way he wanted it to. He could have called a stop to it all at any time before the night of the murders. He could have said "wait a minute, I think I can at least win visitation in court based on my hammer toe and baby pictures". But he chose not to. He chose murder over taking his chances in court against Hanna. Why??????

Angie may have planned it out of fear she would never see SW again but Jake didn't give a rat's rear about seeing SW again. He did it because he hated Hanna for having the strength to leave him and move on with her life without him in it. As I said, a master manipulator.

JMO
 
Freddy AD said:
Betty, while you’re being charitable to RN, do you feel she can afford Gerlach? Everything I have read, she has no car, money, and is hardly able to pay her utilities. Could all be lies, but someone is paying that man. He has represented FW’s kin in the past, and that leads me to believe everyone is of the same interest. This is all my opinion, but that whole group has the same goal in mind. The phone calls and the “confidential reliable source”. FW has the capital. She lies as much as the rest, IMO. Going back to what I said earlier, they have a LOAD of evidence against the W4. We all know that. These trials are going to come down to the Judge, jury pool, and lawyers. I feel like the actual evidence will come through. Rita or no Rita. It will be no Rita after the plea agreement and what I’ve read.
Click to expand...
I guess I missed the part where it was said who was paying Rita's attorney fees. I thought she said in court she was indigent and the judge told her an attorney would be appointed for her. So could someone please catch me up and supply a link where it says Rita (or someone else other than the taxpayers of Ohio) is paying her attorney fees?
 
Myland said:
Jmo but Rita sure gained a lot of sympathy after her plea agreement. Seems odd to me Jmo
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Well she somewhat gained mine because it seems she might not have known about the murders before hand and that she may not have even known her signature had been forged on custody papers. That makes her kind of a victim in my eyes. The same way that anyone who has had anything stolen from them by another person (family or not) is a victim. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. If she didn't know what her daughter and grandsons planned to do, there was no way she could have stopped it.

JMO
 
RAISINISBACK said:
Well she somewhat gained mine because it seems she might not have known about the murders before hand and that she may not have even known her signature had been forged on custody papers. That makes her kind of a victim in my eyes. The same way that anyone who has had anything stolen from them by another person (family or not) is a victim. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. If she didn't know what her daughter and grandsons planned to do, there was no way she could have stopped it.

JMO
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Jmo but I don’t believe she knew about the murders before hand either but she pretty much knew she lied for over a year, so what changed her mind and what changed the prosecutors mind to not go all the way. The prosecutor knew also for quite some time it wasn’t her signature. It seems like it was a sweet deal for both sides only time and four trials will tell who got the sweetier deal Jmo
 
RAISINISBACK said:
As I said, Angie may have planned the murders but Jake was the driving force behind it. He was the one standing over her shoulder telling her that she was never going to see SW again unless they killed Hanna and her whole family. Badgering her by telling her something drastic had to happen or she would never see the child she loved again. Who knows what he told his family to get them to go along? But one thing is certain. Jake had the most to gain. It was his show all the way. It ended exactly the way he wanted it to. He could have called a stop to it all at any time before the night of the murders. He could have said "wait a minute, I think I can at least win visitation in court based on my hammer toe and baby pictures". But he chose not to. He chose murder over taking his chances in court against Hanna. Why??????

Angie may have planned it out of fear she would never see SW again but Jake didn't give a rat's rear about seeing SW again. He did it because he hated Hanna for having the strength to leave him and move on with her life without him in it. As I said, a master manipulator.

JMO
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
You say something very interesting quote:

"Jake didn't give a rat's rear about seeing SW again. He did it because he hated Hanna for having the strength to leave him and move on with her life without him in it."

Now this is interesting because I've always thought about the Case as being all about Jake and Angela being insanely obsessed over custody, which they were of course, but there is more to it, from what you say.

That it could have been even more important to Jake that he stop Hanna from moving on with her life and loving other men. The classic "if I can't have her no one can."

I'll look for the article if anyone wants to see it but there is a MSM article that quotes Jake as saying that he thought "Hanna leaving was just a phase."
It was when he realized it wasn't just a phase, that she wasn't coming back, that he started planning murder.

They had picked out a specific date to get married in August 2015 and instead Hanna called off the wedding and was pregnant with another man's baby at that time. In the fall of 2015 she sent the bio father the ultrasound photo
and was in a serious relationship with another man. Even though she had broken up with the bio dad months earlier, she still didn't want to go back to Jake and chose somebody else to be with and to have in the new baby's life.

By that January of 2016 it was crystal clear to Jake that this was no phase, that for sure she wasn't coming back to him. According to the indictments they were planning the murders at this time.

So what you are saying really strongly is supported by this timeline of events.

Before the "laser focus" I thought Chris Sr. was the main target, after arrests I thought it was mostly about custody, but now I'm wondering if you could be right about what your saying about Jake.

Hummmm.....Opinion without links but will look for links if anyone wants to see articles.
 
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RAISINISBACK said:
I guess I missed the part where it was said who was paying Rita's attorney fees. I thought she said in court she was indigent and the judge told her an attorney would be appointed for her. So could someone please catch me up and supply a link where it says Rita (or someone else other than the taxpayers of Ohio) is paying her attorney fees?
Click to expand...

Just go to her court record. She has never had an indigent entry.
 
RAISINISBACK said:
I guess I missed the part where it was said who was paying Rita's attorney fees. I thought she said in court she was indigent and the judge told her an attorney would be appointed for her. So could someone please catch me up and supply a link where it says Rita (or someone else other than the taxpayers of Ohio) is paying her attorney fees?
Click to expand...
I have only given my opinion on the matter. I have no way to know who is paying her attorney fees. In your opinion how is she paying for this attorney to do all the work?
 
Remember what led to RN's hearing Dec 2? Bruce Dailey documents, JWs attorney in the custody battle. Sheriff Reader and Brian Reader being called as witnesses, along with Kayla Slusher. Let us not forget what brought us to yesterday and today. JMO
 
I’m here to see the actual murderers go down. And they will. Thanks to everyone who is on the same page, but maybe have a little different feelings on the matter. My last take will be:
I think this “plea agreement” helps the prosecution a little bit. AW, GWIII, JW, and possibly GWIV’s attorneys will spin this “little hiccup” however they want, but the evidence will override any of their lies.
 
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