OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #54

[Loomis124]

On February 6th a Journal entry was put out for GW4 and it had a very important piece of information which I had previously posted about and I'll sum it up:

A meeting has been arranged, no date listed, for GW4's defense and the prosecution to meet at BCI so the prosecution can inform the defense about certain parts of recordings that were made and that these are recordings that GW4's attorneys may wish to focus upon.
(Multiple conversations were recorded with GW4 the most vocal).

So I have been checking the docket to see if the journal entries have been posted for the other 3 Wagners and by February 28 all were posted.

I wanted to check this because I expected that their journal entries would ALSO mention the recordings.

But there is no mention at all of the recordings. For all 3 Wagners the only thing mentioned about discovery is that on March 13 the defense and prosecution will meet at BCI to go over discovery and the prosecution will help get it organized for the defense.

Also I see that the 3 Wagners have future court dates listed for April but no future court date has yet been listed for GW4.

I'm just a little surprised because I find the discrepancies between GW4 and the other 3 Wagners to be slightly odd. Of course this all could mean absolutely nothing but I think it is worth noting.

Thank you, CC, for pointing this out. It is very helpful!

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you, CC, for pointing this out. It is very helpful!

........

 

[Loomis124]

GW4 wanted to go to trial and was the first of the 4 to have a date set, but his attorneys needed more discovery. I don't think GW4 will plea and admit any guilt, I think right now it is all about his attorneys defending him against anything incriminating he may have said on the tapes.

I think GW4 will want his attorneys to get the tapes thrown out or get parts omitted from his trial or spin them and do damage control etc...

Think about it though. Think about how you are having multiple conversations in your own home or your grandmother's home etc...and you start talking off the top of your head, off guard, not thinking about everything you are saying like we do at home. At home we say what we want, no one is listening right?

And imagine what the Wagners may have revealed.

I think that what the Wagners thought would happen was that eventually the case would die down and just stay a cold case and they would go on with their lives just like before but better, because they now have full permanent custody of not just one, but both children.. .

Then they got a surprise:

Murder has no statute of limitations and the BCI investigation and DeWine's laser focus will now follow them the rest of their lives, they will never be free of it, as Jake said in Alaska:
"It followed us here."

As they faced their new reality realizing they could be arrested, they then discussed breaking each other out of jail.

The Wagners must always have total control and they could not control HR and her family. This enraged them so they decided kill her and her family and regain total control.

The Wagners must always have total control and they cannot control LE continually investigating them. This enraged them so they began to plot revenge (which could mean murder) against LE and anyone who goes against them...2 Cents........

Excellent analysis, CC! Especially the last paragraph!

 

[Loomis124]

GW4 wanted to go to trial and was the first of the 4 to have a date set, but his attorneys needed more discovery. I don't think GW4 will plea and admit any guilt, I think right now it is all about his attorneys defending him against anything incriminating he may have said on the tapes.

I think GW4 will want his attorneys to get the tapes thrown out or get parts omitted from his trial or spin them and do damage control etc...

Think about it though. Think about how you are having multiple conversations in your own home or your grandmother's home etc...and you start talking off the top of your head, off guard, not thinking about everything you are saying like we do at home. At home we say what we want, no one is listening right?

And imagine what the Wagners may have revealed.

I think that what the Wagners thought would happen was that eventually the case would die down and just stay a cold case and they would go on with their lives just like before but better, because they now have full permanent custody of not just one, but both children.. .

Then they got a surprise:

Murder has no statute of limitations and the BCI investigation and DeWine's laser focus will now follow them the rest of their lives, they will never be free of it, as Jake said in Alaska:
"It followed us here."

As they faced their new reality realizing they could be arrested, they then discussed breaking each other out of jail.

The Wagners must always have total control and they could not control HR and her family. This enraged them so they decided kill her and her family and regain total control.

The Wagners must always have total control and they cannot control LE continually investigating them. This enraged them so they began to plot revenge (which could mean murder) against LE and anyone who goes against them...2 Cents........

DBM double post

 

[Johnny B Bad]

CC have you read somewhere thru your research, how much evidence is need to convict the accused, because the State has a lot of evidence also will it take all of the evidence the State has to get a conviction? Can Jake Wagner ask for more extension for a new trial date after January 2021, it has been a long time to wait for the family of the victims, JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

CC have you read somewhere thru your research, how much evidence is need to convict the accused, because the State has a lot of evidence also will it take all of the evidence the State has to get a conviction? Can Jake Wagner ask for more extension for a new trial date after January 2021, it has been a long time to wait for the family of the victims, JMO

Before January 31st 2021 Jake's attorneys can waive speedy trial again if they feel they need more time, but then it is up to the judge. The defense will need to show good cause for needing to waive Jake's speedy trial time past January 2021.

How Long Can a Felony Case Stay Open? - JobsForFelonsHub.com

The length of a felony case will vary. The defendant has a right to a speedy trial, so the length of the case should ideally reflect what a defendant wants.

Depending on the complexity of the crime and defense tactics, the length of time to go to trial can be months or drawn out for years. However, drawn-out court cases are expensive and difficult to sustain.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

As for how much evidence the prosecution must show:

The prosecution only has to present enough evidence to prove their case and all the aggravating factors. The prosecution might find it unnecessary to present every single piece of their evidence.

One reason there is so much evidence in the Wagner Cases is because the State needs specific evidence for each of the different charges and aggravating factors and there are 22 (Jake 23) charges for each of them with many aggravating factors such as burglary and use of a dangerous ordinance.
I believe the dangerous ordinances are the automatic weapons and silencers.

Good lists --
Ohio statute of which weapons are dangerous ordinances and also which ones are not:
Legal Definition of Dangerous Ordinance Legal Definitions Legal Questions & Answers

 

[Betty P]

Before January 31st 2021 Jake's attorneys can waive speedy trial again if they feel they need more time, but then it is up to the judge. The defense will need to show good cause for needing to waive Jake's speedy trial time past January 2021.

How Long Can a Felony Case Stay Open? - JobsForFelonsHub.com

The length of a felony case will vary. The defendant has a right to a speedy trial, so the length of the case should ideally reflect what a defendant wants.

Depending on the complexity of the crime and defense tactics, the length of time to go to trial can be months or drawn out for years. However, drawn-out court cases are expensive and difficult to sustain.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

As for how much evidence the prosecution must show:

The prosecution only has to present enough evidence to prove their case and all the aggravating factors. The prosecution might find it unnecessary to present every single piece of their evidence.

One reason there is so much evidence in the Wagner Cases is because the State needs specific evidence for each of the different charges and aggravating factors and there are 22 (Jake 23) charges for each of them with many aggravating factors such as burglary and use of a dangerous ordinance.
I believe the dangerous ordinances are the automatic weapons and silencers.

Good lists --
Ohio statute of which weapons are dangerous ordinances and also which ones are not:
Legal Definition of Dangerous Ordinance Legal Definitions Legal Questions & Answers

Thanks. We've discussed this before.

 

[Betty P]

CC have you read somewhere thru your research, how much evidence is need to convict the accused, because the State has a lot of evidence also will it take all of the evidence the State has to get a conviction? Can Jake Wagner ask for more extension for a new trial date after January 2021, it has been a long time to wait for the family of the victims, JMO

Jake Wagner's attorneys can ask for anything they want. The question is how much the judge will allow. None of us here are trial attorneys, so all we can do is guess how Judge Deering might rule on any motions the W's attorneys bring up. He'll probably allow as much as necessary to ensure the defendants don't have grounds for appeal, but he's also going to be aware of the need to keep the trial from dragging on. Defense attorneys will try to have it both ways - complaining of the need to appeal, get evidence thrown out, etc. while also complaining about the need for a speedy trial - whatever suits them at the moment.

 

[Dudly]

Before January 31st 2021 Jake's attorneys can waive speedy trial again if they feel they need more time, but then it is up to the judge. The defense will need to show good cause for needing to waive Jake's speedy trial time past January 2021.

How Long Can a Felony Case Stay Open? - JobsForFelonsHub.com

The length of a felony case will vary. The defendant has a right to a speedy trial, so the length of the case should ideally reflect what a defendant wants.

Depending on the complexity of the crime and defense tactics, the length of time to go to trial can be months or drawn out for years. However, drawn-out court cases are expensive and difficult to sustain.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

As for how much evidence the prosecution must show:

The prosecution only has to present enough evidence to prove their case and all the aggravating factors. The prosecution might find it unnecessary to present every single piece of their evidence.

One reason there is so much evidence in the Wagner Cases is because the State needs specific evidence for each of the different charges and aggravating factors and there are 22 (Jake 23) charges for each of them with many aggravating factors such as burglary and use of a dangerous ordinance.
I believe the dangerous ordinances are the automatic weapons and silencers.

Good lists --
Ohio statute of which weapons are dangerous ordinances and also which ones are not:
Legal Definition of Dangerous Ordinance Legal Definitions Legal Questions & Answers

This alone could be a game changer. The silencer is a Federal offense. Nothing has been released about automatic weapons being used.
Silencers, otherwise known as suppressors, are among the most highly regulated gun accessories in the US. Under federal law, consumers must apply for a license to purchase them. The process involves paying a fee to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and submitting to extensive screening. It can take more than a year to get an answer. Americans eager to skip the wait, though, have a shortcut: tap one of the dozens of online retailers selling de facto suppressor parts and build their own.
The online silencer market is booming — just don’t call it a silencer

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Jake Wagner's attorneys can ask for anything they want. The question is how much the judge will allow. None of us here are trial attorneys, so all we can do is guess how Judge Deering might rule on any motions the W's attorneys bring up. He'll probably allow as much as necessary to ensure the defendants don't have grounds for appeal, but he's also going to be aware of the need to keep the trial from dragging on. Defense attorneys will try to have it both ways - complaining of the need to appeal, get evidence thrown out, etc. while also complaining about the need for a speedy trial - whatever suits them at the moment.

Even if we were trial attorneys, we'd still be guessing. Ultimately, it's up to the judge in each case. Just saying...

 

[Berrybell]

........

Yes thank you so much for the time and detail you put into this case.

 

[Cool Cats]

This alone could be a game changer. The silencer is a Federal offense. Nothing has been released about automatic weapons being used.
Silencers, otherwise known as suppressors, are among the most highly regulated gun accessories in the US. Under federal law, consumers must apply for a license to purchase them. The process involves paying a fee to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and submitting to extensive screening. It can take more than a year to get an answer. Americans eager to skip the wait, though, have a shortcut: tap one of the dozens of online retailers selling de facto suppressor parts and build their own.
The online silencer market is booming — just don’t call it a silencer

Thank you for the information Dudly. Silencers seem to be a big part of the Wagner cases (Boondock Saints reference and found in Wagner well) and are mentioned many times in the Wagner indictments.

Yes, as you say in your post, nothing has been released about automatic weapons except automatic weapons are mentioned many times in the Wagner indictments:

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Counts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 = Aggravated Murder

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner
had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said aggravated murder."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #9 = Conspiracy

"...futherance of the conspiracy was committed by the said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner, or a person with whom the said
Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner conspired, including but not limited to the following acts, to wit: making several purchases...and/or parts to build a silencer(s)...building a silencer(s)...

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count 10, 11, 12, 13 = Aggravated Burglary

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor..."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #14 = Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance

"Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner, defendant, on or about the 1st day of January 2016, through the 22nd day of April 2016, did unlawfully and knowingly, aquire, have, carry, or use any dangerous ordnance, to wit: a firearm muffler or suppressor and/or automatic firearm."

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner had a firearm on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance..."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #22 = Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity

" The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner
had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity... "

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The Boondocks Saints movie is mentioned in the evidence, (IMO) I think it is wrote somewhere and is referred to the Rhodens Family Murders, if not why would it be named in the Evidence? JMO
I watch movies all the time on my phone, but I just can’t figure that part of Wagners trial material out yet.

 

[Loomis124]

Before January 31st 2021 Jake's attorneys can waive speedy trial again if they feel they need more time, but then it is up to the judge. The defense will need to show good cause for needing to waive Jake's speedy trial time past January 2021.

How Long Can a Felony Case Stay Open? - JobsForFelonsHub.com

The length of a felony case will vary. The defendant has a right to a speedy trial, so the length of the case should ideally reflect what a defendant wants.

Depending on the complexity of the crime and defense tactics, the length of time to go to trial can be months or drawn out for years. However, drawn-out court cases are expensive and difficult to sustain.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

As for how much evidence the prosecution must show:

The prosecution only has to present enough evidence to prove their case and all the aggravating factors. The prosecution might find it unnecessary to present every single piece of their evidence.

One reason there is so much evidence in the Wagner Cases is because the State needs specific evidence for each of the different charges and aggravating factors and there are 22 (Jake 23) charges for each of them with many aggravating factors such as burglary and use of a dangerous ordinance.
I believe the dangerous ordinances are the automatic weapons and silencers.

Good lists --
Ohio statute of which weapons are dangerous ordinances and also which ones are not:
Legal Definition of Dangerous Ordinance Legal Definitions Legal Questions & Answers

VERY ENLIGHTENING! TY

 

[Loomis124]

Thank you for the information Dudly. Silencers seem to be a big part of the Wagner cases (Boondock Saints reference and found in Wagner well) and are mentioned many times in the Wagner indictments.

Yes, as you say in your post, nothing has been released about automatic weapons except automatic weapons are mentioned many times in the Wagner indictments:

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Counts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 = Aggravated Murder

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner
had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said aggravated murder."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #9 = Conspiracy

"...futherance of the conspiracy was committed by the said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner, or a person with whom the said
Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner conspired, including but not limited to the following acts, to wit: making several purchases...and/or parts to build a silencer(s)...building a silencer(s)...

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count 10, 11, 12, 13 = Aggravated Burglary

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor..."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #14 = Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance

"Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner, defendant, on or about the 1st day of January 2016, through the 22nd day of April 2016, did unlawfully and knowingly, aquire, have, carry, or use any dangerous ordnance, to wit: a firearm muffler or suppressor and/or automatic firearm."

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner had a firearm on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance..."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #22 = Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity

"Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner...making several purchases
...and/or unlawful possession of a dangerous ordnance..."

" The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner
had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity... "

Yes, I agree. So far only one silencer has been mentioned, correct? I have often wondered if automatic weapons or even explosives, could have been the "dangerous ordnance" referred to one or more of the indictments. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

Thank you for the information Dudly. Silencers seem to be a big part of the Wagner cases (Boondock Saints reference and found in Wagner well) and are mentioned many times in the Wagner indictments.

Yes, as you say in your post, nothing has been released about automatic weapons except automatic weapons are mentioned many times in the Wagner indictments:

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Counts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 = Aggravated Murder

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner
had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said aggravated murder."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #9 = Conspiracy

"...futherance of the conspiracy was committed by the said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner, or a person with whom the said
Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner conspired, including but not limited to the following acts, to wit: making several purchases...and/or parts to build a silencer(s)...building a silencer(s)...

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count 10, 11, 12, 13 = Aggravated Burglary

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor..."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #14 = Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance

"Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner, defendant, on or about the 1st day of January 2016, through the 22nd day of April 2016, did unlawfully and knowingly, aquire, have, carry, or use any dangerous ordnance, to wit: a firearm muffler or suppressor and/or automatic firearm."

"The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner had a firearm on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance..."

Angela Wagner, George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Edward Jacob Wagner on
Count #22 = Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity

" The said Angela, George 3, George 4, Edward Jacob Wagner
had a firearm that is an automatic firearm or that was equipped with a firearm muffler or suppressor on or about his (her) person or under his (her) control while committing the said Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity... "

The word "or" in all the charges makes it nearly impossible for us to figure them out specifically, but I have faith that the Prosecution has more than enough evidence needed to put the 4 Wagners away forever. JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

CC
You wrote yesterday about on the 13 of March of 2020 the prosecution and the defense is going to meet at the BCI to listen/watch the recording that the LE has of GW4 threatens to murder high ranking officials and also talks about a prison break if all the Wagners didn’t get arrested, I’m not trying to make anyone mad but someone that is a family member or a really close friend of the family wore a wire around the 4 Wagners, whoever’s has the wire on took their on life into their hands because if Billy or one of the others discovered it, (JMO) the person wearing it would be dead, I think a close family members probably had their phone hacked and didn’t know it, that is how think LE listened On the 4 Wagners.
CC
We might find out by GW4 next court date where the Wire Tap came from,
What’s everyone else opinion on the Wire Tap.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Good evening Loomis, glad to see you posting tonight, do you have any thoughts on the Wire Tap?

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, I agree. So far only one silencer has been mentioned, correct? I have often wondered if automatic weapons or even explosives, could have been the "dangerous ordnance" referred to one or more of the indictments. JMO

Yes, there has been only one silencer mentioned. The MSM wording is they left behind parts to make a silencer and a silencer was found in the Wagner well.

So they had silencer (parts) evidence before they even found the maglite silencer part(s) in the well. This means they now have at least 2 different locations on Wagner property where they actually found parts to make a silencer...2 Cents...

Also, the maglite silencer part(s) must have produced some type of forensic evidence that linked to the Wagners because the ballistics report from the Wagner's well was taken to the GR and that was the final piece of the puzzle for DeWine to get the indictments....2 Cents....

 

[StrangeOne]

A lot of the threads in Websleuths are filled with opinions it's kind of how things have to go to work certain things out. We bounce thoughts off each other waiting for the facts to come out. Some facts we are able to hunt down for ourselves others we just wait and see what LE have managed to collect. Unless someone is braking ToS why not allow them their own opinions?

*breaking not braking. Blahhhh
Since I am new to court proceedings I want to know if when is is over is there a way to get transcripts?