OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #55

[Cool Cats]

Consider the "sources" of this information...lol...all siding with the Wagners, and so far, not a bit of truth to back any of it up. Why would anyone believe these things?

All that matters is if the Jury will believe that it's possible these other suspects did it, thus giving a reasonable doubt. The defense attorneys do not have to believe any of it to present it to the jury. The defense attorneys might even think the Wagner's are guilty but will still give them a vigorous defense.

Question:

If the attorneys say John Doe did it, can they actually use the person's real name?
"Here's why we think this John Doe - real name - committed these murders."

 

[Cool Cats]

Just one question. IF are indeed other suspects, why would it not have come out by now? I don't believe this for a second. "Someone" is trying to help out the defense by promoting such propaganda. Not too difficult to see that.

Well I think it will come out at trial. How can you say your clients are guilt free but offer no other plausible suspects?

Or you can be vague about it like Clark and attribute it to a drug cartel. But this is a catch-all and would require proof to back it up.

Other suspects haven't come up because LE isn't arresting anyone else and everything is under a gag order. There could be suspects named by the defense but hidden away by the gag order, or the defense will only bring them up when they cross examine someone or put on their case - surprise the prosecution, a one-two punch.

 

[Loomis124]

Well I think it will come out at trial. How can you say your clients are guilt free but offer no other plausible suspects?

Or you can be vague about it like Clark and attribute it to a drug cartel. But this is a catch-all and would require proof to back it up.

Other suspects haven't come up because LE isn't arresting anyone else and everything is under a gag order. There could be suspects named by the defense but hidden away by the gag order, or the defense will only bring them up when they cross examine someone or put on their case - surprise the prosecution, a one-two punch.

The investigation is DONE unless other proven details come out, which obviously haven't. Why beat this horse to death?

 

[Betty P]

All that matters is if the Jury will believe that it's possible these other suspects did it, thus giving a reasonable doubt. The defense attorneys do not have to believe any of it to present it to the jury. The defense attorneys might even think the Wagner's are guilty but will still give them a vigorous defense.

Question:

If the attorneys say John Doe did it, can they actually use the person's real name?
"Here's why we think this John Doe - real name - committed these murders."

I suppose that's why some folks are working hard to get these "red herrings" out in public before the trial. There will be a lot of this underhanded activity all summer long and into the fall. Do you have links for those quotes?

 

[Betty P]

Well I think it will come out at trial. How can you say your clients are guilt free but offer no other plausible suspects?

Or you can be vague about it like Clark and attribute it to a drug cartel. But this is a catch-all and would require proof to back it up.

Other suspects haven't come up because LE isn't arresting anyone else and everything is under a gag order. There could be suspects named by the defense but hidden away by the gag order, or the defense will only bring them up when they cross examine someone or put on their case - surprise the prosecution, a one-two punch.

You know as well as anyone, all it takes is planting a seed of doubt in the mind of one juror to allow the Wagners to walk free.

As with the legendary Racehorse Haynes, defense attorneys are allowed to lie about a lot of things. They don't have to prove any cockamamie theories or phantom suspects they toss out. It's called "pleading in the alternative" when the defense attorney fabricates any number of reasons why his client isn't guilty without having to prove any of them.

You just gave a good example of that in your post up above.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Not sure I understood, which family members are you referring to?

Where the surviving members of the Rhoden, Manley and Gilley families are concerned, I hope the potential jurists are influenced by the suffering and loss they've endured, especially the little children. Those babies witnessed the murders of their parents up close and personal. I hope the jurists are very much influenced by their lifelong trauma, pain and loss.

If you're referring to the Wags, I agree. I hope no one is subjected to any threats or pressure to change testimony or vote for acquittal.

I’m referring to the Wagners, I hope that some of the people that get picked to set on the jury doesn’t get any kind of info fromFRED! Please let the jury’s do the right thing for the Rhodens, Gilles and the Manleys

 

[Betty P]

All that matters is if the Jury will believe that it's possible these other suspects did it, thus giving a reasonable doubt. The defense attorneys do not have to believe any of it to present it to the jury. The defense attorneys might even think the Wagner's are guilty but will still give them a vigorous defense.

Question:

If the attorneys say John Doe did it, can they actually use the person's real name?
"Here's why we think this John Doe - real name - committed these murders."

They can make up all the BS they want. Some of it may get thrown out, some not. Scummy defense attorneys know how to do this.

They also know how to spread the same false information to the public before the trial in hopes of tainting the jury pool. I wonder what it feels like to be a defense attorney playing dirty tricks to set free people who murdered a family of 8 in cold blood? How do they live with themselves?

 

[Betty P]

I’m referring to the Wagners, I hope that some of the people that get picked to set on the jury doesn’t get any kind of info fromFRED! Please let the jury’s do the right thing for the Rhodens, Gilles and the Manleys

Those prospective jury members could also get some false information from others on social media, even here at Websleuths.

But if everyone is living "close to the cross" they may think they can get away with it.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

You know as well as anyone, all it takes is planting a seed of doubt in the mind of one juror to allow the Wagners to walk free.

As with the legendary Racehorse Haynes, defense attorneys are allowed to lie about a lot of things. They don't have to prove any cockamamie theories or phantom suspects they toss out. It's called "pleading in the alternative" when the defense attorney fabricates any number of reasons why his client isn't guilty without having to prove any of them.

You just gave a good example of that in your post up above.

Your exactly right BP, that is why the prosecution and judge should release some more of the information to the investigation Out to the public so it will kill some of the red herrings tales out, JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

You know as well as anyone, all it takes is planting a seed of doubt in the mind of one juror to allow the Wagners to walk free.

As with the legendary Racehorse Haynes, defense attorneys are allowed to lie about a lot of things. They don't have to prove any cockamamie theories or phantom suspects they toss out. It's called "pleading in the alternative" when the defense attorney fabricates any number of reasons why his client isn't guilty without having to prove any of them.

You just gave a good example of that in your post up above.

Your exactly right BP, that is why the prosecution and judge should release some more of the information to the investigation Out

Those prospective jury members could also get some false information from others on social media, even here at Websleuths.

But if everyone is living "close to the cross" they may think they can get away with it.

to the public so it will kill some of the red herrings tales out, JMO
You really think that FW isn’t going to work the social network and all her friends to try to get her family free???

 

[Betty P]

Mention of other suspects

Wagner family Attorney Clark before arrests:

"...I believe the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police have failed to locate.
The Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
Why have the authorities not follow up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?..."

Billy Wagner's current Attorneys Collins and Hayes:

"...The families were close friends the State cannot prove otherwise. There have been multiple different suspects other than the Wagners. Multiple different tips that did not lead investigators to the Wagners and even crime scene evidence with a former law enforcement officer's DNA on it.."

Angela Wagner to Rita on jail phone call:

"Let me tell you what my attorney said, I'm probably not suppose to say this on here but here's what he said to me."
According to Canepa, Angela goes on to tell Rita the theories her attorney has for the murders that can be used in her trial...(Talk about giving the prosecution a head's up!..Wow..)

Which I think will include other suspects.

You need some links for your quotes above.

 

[Betty P]

Well I think it will come out at trial. How can you say your clients are guilt free but offer no other plausible suspects?

Or you can be vague about it like Clark and attribute it to a drug cartel. But this is a catch-all and would require proof to back it up.

Other suspects haven't come up because LE isn't arresting anyone else and everything is under a gag order. There could be suspects named by the defense but hidden away by the gag order, or the defense will only bring them up when they cross examine someone or put on their case - surprise the prosecution, a one-two punch.

Other suspects haven't come up because they were all fully investigated and found not to be involved. That's one of the reasons why the investigation took 2 years. By the time DeWine ordered the arrests of the Wagner clan, every individual involved in drugs or any criminal activity had been fully investigated. Those thousands of hours of recordings of phone conversations, emails, texts, etc. probably include the communications of every criminal in a 5 county radius.

BCI and the prosecution learned about everybody's business during that investigation. The only ones who revealed evidence of being involved in the murders were the Wagners.

 

[Loomis124]

Other suspects haven't come up because they were all fully investigated and found not to be involved. That's one of the reasons why the investigation took 2 years. By the time DeWine ordered the arrests of the Wagner clan, every individual involved in drugs or any criminal activity had been fully investigated. Those thousands of hours of recordings of phone conversations, emails, texts, etc. probably include the communications of every criminal in a 5 county radius.

BCI and the prosecution learned about everybody's business during that investigation. The only ones who revealed evidence of being involved in the murders were the Wagners.

Exactly!

If anyone else has any proof of other "true, valid, current, evidence-based, other suspects," please post the links or even your good-faith basis for such! Is that too much to ask in proof of the murders of 8 people in one night? Are you honestly barking up the tree that one sole person carried this out? Superman, I suppose, with special powers, wearing 4 types of boots...etc.

 

[Cool Cats]

The ones that are missing from some of the posts above. Social media rumors don't count in a court of law. It would be nice to have some links.

The facts are in the voluminous files of evidence that have been painstakingly assembled by the prosecution, the BCI and many others. They have proof.

ALTERNATIVE SUSPECTS FROM DEFENSE

NOT SOCIAL MEDIA RUMORS HAVE POSTED ALL OF THESE LINKS MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE EVEN IN THE TIMELINE

Wagner family Attorney Clark before arrests:

Pictured, people in laser focus of multiple murder hunt | Daily Mail Online

"...I believe the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police have failed to locate..."Mexican cartel" .... "
The Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
Why have the authorities not follow up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?..."

Billy Wagner's current Attorneys Collins and Hayes:

Billy Wagner bond request

"...The families were close friends the State cannot prove otherwise. There have been multiple different suspects other than the Wagners. Multiple different tips that did not lead investigators to the Wagners and even crime scene evidence with a former law enforcement officer's DNA on it.."

Angie and Rita's jail phone calls:

They are at the end of Rita's Revocation Hearing Part One.
One hour and 16 minutes in:

Video Posted in Timeline page 17

"Let me tell you what my attorney said, I'm probably not suppose to say this on here but here's what he said to me."
According to Canepa, Angela goes on to tell Rita the theories her attorney has for the murders that can be used in her trial...(Talk about giving the prosecution a head's up!..Wow..)

Which I think will include other suspects.

 

[Loomis124]

Your exactly right BP, that is why the prosecution and judge should release some more of the information to the investigation Out to the public so it will kill some of the red herrings tales out, JMO

Johnny, the evidence is listed in all the Discovery.

 

[Betty P]

SUSPECTS MENTIONED

NOT SOCIAL MEDIA RUMORS HAVE POSTED ALL OF THESE LINKS MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE

Wagner family Attorney Clark before arrests:

Pictured, people in laser focus of multiple murder hunt | Daily Mail Online

"...I believe the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police have failed to locate.
The Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
Why have the authorities not follow up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?..."

Billy Wagner's current Attorneys Collins and Hayes:

Billy Wagner bond request

"...The families were close friends the State cannot prove otherwise. There have been multiple different suspects other than the Wagners. Multiple different tips that did not lead investigators to the Wagners and even crime scene evidence with a former law enforcement officer's DNA on it.."

Angie and Rita's jail phone calls:

Posted in Timeline

It's at the end of Rita's Revocation Hearing Part One.
One hour and 16 minutes in:

"Let me tell you what my attorney said, I'm probably not suppose to say this on here but here's what he said to me."
According to Canepa, Angela goes on to tell Rita the theories her attorney has for the murders that can be used in her trial...(Talk about giving the prosecution a head's up!..Wow..)

Which I think will include other suspects.

Need a link for that third quote.

The garbage from the defense attorneys is the usual lies and obfuscation. If they think they have such a strong case to exonerate their hapless clients, why are they trying to poison the minds of the jury?

Sounds to me like they have no exonerating evidence to help their clients, while the state has a very strong case. The recent review of all the state's evidence must have left them shaking in their boots and scrambling to deploy as many dirty tricks as possible. Unfortunately, I don't think the news media is going to help them out.

RN turned state's evidence and there's probably at least one or two of the Wagner clan who are considering the same.

ETA: You also forgot to include that your belief that there are other suspects reflects your opinion, not fact.

Waiting for link.... What timeline are you referring to for the quote? Where is the alleged video?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

In my own opinion, I think that the 4 Wagners killed The Rhodens and Hannah Gilley but I really think the defense attorneys are going to try name RM, LJ and the lady that Chris Jr had the road rage with also there are others that where in that car the day little Chris Jr had the spat with, it going to be a very bad trial for the loved ones, JMO

 

[Betty P]

In my own opinion, I think that the 4 Wagners killed The Rhodens and Hannah Gilley but I really think the defense attorneys are going to try name RM, LJ and the lady that Chris Jr had the road rage with also there are others that where in that car the day little Chris Jr had the spat with, it going to be a very bad trial for the loved ones, JMO

Well, if that's their strategy, good luck. Their clients have fools for attorneys. JMO

It will be interesting to see the defense attorneys walk into court and call Gov. Mike DeWine a liar.

ETA: And LOL at the idea of a middle aged housewife in a road rage incident getting so mad she would plot and kill 8 members of the same family in 4 different crime scenes, baffling LE for 2 years.

 

[molly1255]

Consider the "sources" of this information...lol...all siding with the Wagners, and so far, not a bit of truth to back any of it up. Why would anyone believe these things?

Yes, and we haven't even seen the evidence against them. I believe the evidence will be overwhelming, especially when taken in total.

 

[Betty P]

I wonder how Fredericka Wagner will feel when she has to bury her son, daughter in law and grandsons after they're convicted and the death penalty carried out?

Does anyone think she will have any sympathy for Mrs. Geneva Rhoden, who had to bury so many of her loved ones, innocent people massacred by an insane criminal clan?

JMO, wondering what others think.

Still waiting for your link @Cool Cats Cats to the confusing alleged quote at the end of your post.