OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

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RAISINISBACK said:
I was thinking more of those two girls birth certificates. They are easy to alter. Jakes name could have been put on both girls birth certificates as their father if the Wagner's could obtain them.
BBM
O/T
That wooden egg was the beginning of a huge and out of control egg collection. One from every member of my family (I have a huge family), one from every state in the lower 48 thanks to my truck driving BIL and one from Hawaii thanks to hubby's sister and one from AK thanks to my trip there. Many from other countries thanks to clients who travel and work there and vacations. I have so many shadow boxes on my walls you can barely see what color they are painted. (sigh).

JMO
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Raisin I agree with you on the thought that there may have been birth certificates or other paperwork in the safe that pertained to the children. Something the Wagners thought they could change or use or destroy.
I wonder:
Did W's want to remove paperwork unfavorable to their custody plan.
Did W's want to add or put into the safe additional paperwork (fabricated and maybe notarized) that was favorable to their custody plan.
Did W's want to change paperwork found inside the safe relating to children in some way that we can not even imagine.
Did W's think there was cash to fund their future.

It seems far fetched that in the midst of all this violence that W's would be bothered with 'paperwork' but they are odd in their thinking.
Wagners seemed to be fixated on documents, thinking they were good at creating documents to suit their needs.
W's also needed money.
jmo

O/T Raisin I am envious of your egg collection! Do you have any that are like the nesting Russian dolls? Nesting eggs?
 
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Dudly said:
I have always thought it was the bedroom door. He could have been in there when the Ws came in or went back there to hold them off and get a gun. My thought was he was holding the door shut so they couldn’t get in so they shot through the door. My opinions only...
Click to expand...

This scenario makes the most sense to me. MOO
 
Cool Cats said:
BJM did not see anything wrong with the front door. She thought it odd the 2 dogs were outside and odd that the door was locked but she knew where the key was.

I am sure she would have said something if she saw any bullet holes and splintering in the door.

But it's a mystery to me why bullet casings were found on the front porch which does make it seem like they fired from outside. BJM did not see any bullet casings but bullet casings can fly some distance away and end up all over the place. One was under the house.

?????
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This post made me think of question.
The dogs. Where were the dogs during all of this happening at CRsr trailer?
And how did they end up outside on the porch the next morning?
If the Wagners initially got the dogs go outside by ? some method, how did the W's exit the property without the dogs reacting? LM made it seem as if dogs were guard dogs.
Maybe W's met up with dogs on the front porch and that was how shell casings were spilled.
 
Ann99 said:
This post made me think of question.
The dogs. Where were the dogs during all of this happening at CRsr trailer?
And how did they end up outside on the porch the next morning?
If the Wagners initially got the dogs go outside by ? some method, how did the W's exit the property without the dogs reacting? LM made it seem as if dogs were guard dogs.
Maybe W's met up with dogs on the front porch and that was how shell casings were spilled.
Click to expand...
I think it was simple with the dogs. The Wagners made sure the dogs were familiar with them, Billy and Jake had been over there, and they simply let the dogs out before shooting, which would upset the dogs. Then they kept the dogs out and simply left, probably patting them on their heads.

The Wagners are bona fide dog people they know more about dogs then most people, Fred developed and sold her own breeds and has sold dogs forever. Billy and Jake and George probably grew up since they were crawling around in diapers with multiple dogs.

I think for the Wagners it was easy for them to go over and assess the dogs and get the dogs familiar with them and easy for the Wagners to take command of the dogs where the rest of us would be freaked out over barking guard dogs and run like hell.

The Wagners know all about guns and all about dogs. More reason they had the means to commit the crimes.....2 cents......
 
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I can only think the dogs already 'knew' the killers. Otherwise... they would have got the silenced gun treatment too I think. Somehow they got them to leave them alone.

Pushing against the door to keep them from coming in the room might cause the stippling effect with the close range of the shot thru the door.
 
Actions of a guilty conscience... Name one incident in which any of the Wagners have displayed any kind of empathy towards this tragedy.

Even when lying to the authorities they showed no empathy toward this tragedy! They were focused on covering their alibi’s. Actions of a guilty conscience.
 
NotHammerToed said:
Actions of a guilty conscience... Name one incident in which any of the Wagners have displayed any kind of empathy towards this tragedy.

Even when lying to the authorities they showed no empathy toward this tragedy! They were focused on covering their alibi’s. Actions of a guilty conscience.
Click to expand...
They have no alibis. Billy couldn't even use Fred as his alibi, instead he said he was at 260 Peterson Rd. that night even though Canepa said he did not live there.

So why was he there?
 
Cool Cats said:
They have no alibis. Billy couldn't even use Fred as his alibi, instead he said he was at 260 Peterson Rd. that night even though Canepa said he did not live there.

So why was he there?
Click to expand...

I think they made a pact to do it together (equally involved) from start to finish, and so none could rat on the others. JMO
 
Loomis124 said:
Anyone have any ideas what they did with their bloody clothes, boots, etc.?
Click to expand...

So they drive off with all these blood splattered guns, gun accessories, boots, masks, gloves, clothes, trail cams, other surveillance equipment, phones, ammunition, and who knows how many other stolen items and murder accessories etc....

So where to put them? They did not have time to burn all of this, they didn't even finish burning that VCR or the maglite found in the well which was partially melted from being burned.

What to do? What to do?

I think they went out somewhere in the "boonies" off their property and dug a huge deep hole - before April 22, 2016 - and drove out there after they were done that night and stripped naked and threw everything in the hole then had shovels stashed out there and buried everything.

At a later date I think it's possible they went back and burned everything.
I can't think of any other way for them to quickly get rid of that large amount of direct evidence.
 
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Cool Cats said:
I think it was simple with the dogs. The Wagners made sure the dogs were familiar with them, Billy and Jake had been over there, and they simply let the dogs out before shooting, which would upset the dogs. Then they kept the dogs out and simply left, probably patting them on their heads.

The Wagners are bona fide dog people they know more about dogs then most people, Fred developed and sold her own breeds and has sold dogs forever. Billy and Jake and George probably grew up since they were crawling around in diapers with multiple dogs.

I think for the Wagners it was easy for them to go over and assess the dogs and get the dogs familiar with them and easy for the Wagners to take command of the dogs where the rest of us would be freaked out over barking guard dogs and run like hell.

The Wagners know all about guns and all about dogs. More reason they had the means to commit the crimes.....2 cents......
Click to expand...

The 4 W's were also charged with counter surveillance, including pets. Count 9, Conspiracy.
 
Cool Cats said:
So they drive off with all these blood splattered guns, gun accessories, boots, masks, gloves, clothes, trail cams, other surveillance equipment, phones, ammunition, and who knows how many other stolen items and murder accessories etc....

So where to put them? They did not have time to burn all of this, they didn't even finish burning that VCR or the maglite found in the well which was partially melted from being burned.

What to do? What to do?

I think they went out somewhere in the "boonies" off their property and dug a huge deep hole - before April 22, 2016 - and drove out there after they were done that night and stripped naked and threw everything in the hole then had shovels stashed out there and buried everything.

At a later date I think it's possible they went back and burned everything.
I can't think of any other way for them to quickly get rid of that large amount of direct evidence.
Click to expand...

Awesome theory! And/or put in another well.Whatever they did with it, we can all agree it was planned.

Also, I tend to think Bethel Hill Road and FWF and I believe some of it was found in the November 2019 search, which is sealed, of course. JMO
 
Loomis124 said:
The 4 W's were also charged with counter surveillance, including pets. Count 9, Conspiracy.
Click to expand...
Meaning they learned everything about the trail cams and other surveillance equipment and LM said there was an electric fence - some type of sensor - at seniors. And they learned everything they could about the dogs they would encounter that night.

But I also think Count 9 means they were bugging the Rhoden homes and phones and Facebook etc to learn about their movements and they surveyed how to get in the homes, the layouts, the cars they drove and even the guns they had etc....2 cents
 
Cool Cats said:
So they drive off with all these blood splattered guns, gun accessories, boots, masks, gloves, clothes, trail cams, other surveillance equipment, phones, ammunition, and who knows how many other stolen items and murder accessories etc....

So where to put them? They did not have time to burn all of this, they didn't even finish burning that VCR or the maglite found in the well which was partially melted from being burned.

What to do? What to do?

I think they went out somewhere in the "boonies" off their property and dug a huge deep hole - before April 22, 2016 - and drove out there after they were done that night and stripped naked and threw everything in the hole then had shovels stashed out there and buried everything.

At a later date I think it's possible they went back and burned everything.
I can't think of any other way for them to quickly get rid of that large amount of direct evidence.
Click to expand...

Also, I remember a local woman posting on FB that she had been accused because some things were found in her burn pile, but I'm not sure about that.
 
Cool Cats said:
Meaning they learned everything about the trail cams and other surveillance equipment and LM said there was an electric fence - some type of sensor - at seniors. And they learned everything they could about the dogs they would encounter that night.

But I also think Count 9 means they were bugging the Rhoden homes and phones and Facebook etc to learn about their movements and they surveyed how to get in the homes, the layouts, the cars they drove and even the guns they had etc....2 cents
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I agree.
 
G4--10/01/2020THIS MATTER COMES BEFORE THE COURT ON AUGUST 31, 2020, FOR A HEARING ON THE DEFENDANT'S MOTION # 59, FOR AN ORDER REQUIRING THE PROSECUTION TO PROVIDE A TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO RECORDINGS IT INTENDS TO INTRODUCE AT TRIAL. AFTER DUE CONSIDERATION OF THE DEFENDANT'S MOTION, AND UPON AGREEMENT OF THE PARTIES, DEFENDANT'S MOTION IS GRANTED. IT IS ORDERED THAT THE STATE OF OHIO PROVIDE THE DEFENSE WITH A SUMMARY OF STATEMENTS, AND TRANSCRIPT OF PORTIONS OF THE AUDIO RECORDINGS THE STATE OF OHIO INTENDS TO INTRODUCE AT TRIAL NO LATER THAN DECEMBER 31, 2020. FILED AND MAILED COPIES CDB

10/01/2020THIS MATTER COMES BEFORE THE COURT ON AUGUST 31, 2020, FOR A HEARING ON THE DEFENDANT'S MOTION # 60, SEEKING AN ORDER COMPELLING THE STATE OF OHIO TO PROVIDE THE DEFENDANT WITH ALL FORENSIC EVIDENCE AND/OR REPORTS. AFTER DUE CONSIDERATION OF THE DEFENDANT'S MOTION, AND UPON THE AGREEMENT OF THE PARTIES, THE DEFENDANT'S MOTION IS GRANTED. IT IS ORDERED THAT THE STATE OF OHIO PROVIDE THE DEFENSE WITH ALL FORENSIC EVIDENCE, REPORTS, AND ACCOMPANYING BENCH NOTES NO LATER THAN SEPTEMBER 30, 2020. FILED AND MAILED COPIES CDB
 
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