GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #64

[tlcya]

PIKE COUNTY, Ohio —

A town woke up one morning to the horror that eight people were brutally killed. The Rhoden family suffered an unthinkable loss eight times over on one late April night in 2016. And years would go by before an arrest was made, and the massacre of an entire family still haunts Pike County, Ohio to this day. The murders of the Rhoden family still haunt small Ohio community

Audio 911 Calls

PRESSER: APRIL 27, 2016

Video Interview with Attorney General DeWine Published 8-13-16

Minors: You may discuss what is covered in the main stream media regarding the custody of minor children. If posting snips from articles regarding the children please redact their names. These babes are innocents. One day they will google their names or those of their parents. And plenty will come up. Let's be respectful of them and the catastrophic loss they have suffered at such tender ages. Thanks.

DO NOT SLEUTH STILL LIVING FAMILY MEMBERS' FACEBOOK PAGES AND POST ABOUT IT HERE. Just don't mention it. Period.

Leave the politics, both national and local, at the door. There is no room for them here.

Rules Etiquette & Information


MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE LINKS *NO DISCUSSION*

CASE NOTES (courtesy of cujenn81) this link contains locations, distance, victim info, relationships and more.

CASE MAP (courtesy of K.L.Puyallup)

Preliminary Autopsy Reports
Final Autopsy Reports source article

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[Betty P]

Updated Timeline - Rhoden Family Murders - updating 2/5/2019

November 2001

George Wagner III indicted on 3 felony counts for receiving stolen property
Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies

2009
George Wagner III and Angela Wagner charged with felony tampering with evidence. Charges dismissed by Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk, who doesn’t recall the reason why.
Pike County: Father accused in Rhoden massacre faced prior felonies

2012 - AG DeWine issued press release announcing LE had discovered “a major marijuana grow site”in Pike County with suspected ties to a Mexican drug cartel. During the discovery, 1200 plants were destroyed by investigators and two abandoned campsites were located, which they believe had belonged to Mexican nationals.

From <Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered>

2013

November 2013
Birth of daughter Sophia to Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden. They lived together much of the time until 2015, at Hanna’s home or the Wagner’s
Pike County investigation: 8 deaths and multiple arrests were tied to one key factor — child custody

2014

Jake Wagner began hacking, etc. victims’ phones, computers and social media accounts according to indictment
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments.aspx

2015

March 2015

Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden end their relationship
Exhaustive investigation leads to break in Pike County murder case

May 2015

Frankie and Chris Rhoden, Jr get in a fight with another driver at a local demolition derby.
Violent Rhoden Brothers Met a Violent End in Ohio Massacre

August 2015
Hanna Rhoden becomes pregnant with her second child, Kylie

2016

January 2016

Wagner 4 begin plotting to murder the Rhoden family, per indictments
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments.aspx

February 2016
Box of marijuana discovered at Piketon Post Office, investigation leads to discovery of "shatter" operation

March 21, 2016
Chris Rhoden, Sr. purchases property and home at 3122 Union Hill Rd. for his ex-wife Dana Rhoden, where she lived with their children Hanna Mae Rhoden and Christopher Rhoden, Jr.
Properties released to family of Pike County victims

Two to three weeks prior to murders: Leonard Manley claims Jake Wagner and his father tried to get Hanna M Rhoden to sign documents giving custody of her daughter Sophia to Jake Wagner.

April 3, 2016

Rita Newcomb forged custody documents related to Sophia, daughter of Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden
Billy Wagner to answer to charges for Rhoden, Gilley murders in Pike County

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx

April 7, 2016

Purchase made at Walmart – photo and receipt later retrieved by BCI and presented as evidence for murder indictments

Jan 17, 2019 Discovery Evidence Summary

April 15, 2016

Wagner family alleges Hanna Rhoden dropped off her daughter Sophia at their home. This conflicts with other reports that Jake Wagner picked up Sophia around 10:30 pm April 21.

Sunday, April 17, 2016

Hanna Rhoden gives birth to Kylie Rhoden at Southern Ohio Medical Center, Portsmouth, OH

Get Access

Monday, April 18, 2016

Photos of Hanna Rhoden in hospital with daughter Sophie and new baby Kylie

Graves: My wish for the Rhoden babies

Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - Woman sentenced in road rage incident court case involving Chris Jr.

From <OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #5>

Wednesday, April 20, 2016

Thursday, April 21, 2016

8 am: Dana arrives at work - Hillcrest Nursing Home, Peebles, OH

10:30 pm – Jake Wagner is reported to have picked up Sophia from Hanna Rhoden, a day earlier than usual

11pm: Dana leaves work - Hillcrest Nursing Home - 14 miles away per CNN

Approx 11:20 pm - Dana arrives home

Friday, April 22, 2016

1 am: April Manley, sister in law of Dana Rhoden, allegedly exchanges text messages with Dana. This information has never been confirmed by LE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4ObgRJ_Xo[/video

2 am: James Manley later told by LE that he received a text from Jake Wagner, ex-boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden. LE has never confirmed this.
Pike County Murders: Father says it’s like ‘tearing the scabs off us’

Between 1 am and 7 am - the following were murdered

• Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (age 40): Nine (face, torso, extremities).
• Dana Rhoden (age 37): Five (head).
• Hannah Gilley (age 20): Five (head)
• Christopher Rhoden, Jr. (age 16): Four (head).
• Clarence “Frankie” Rhoden (age 20): Three (head). Two were “contact wounds” as indicated by soot from the gun on his skull.
• Gary Rhoden (age 37): Three “contact” wounds (head).
• Hanna Rhoden (19): Two (head).
• Kenneth Rhoden (age 44): One (right eye).

Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

7:15 am: Bobby Jo Manley, sister of Dina Rhoden, arrives at Chris Sr.'s property to feed his animals. She says she was with two friends, identities have varied, not confirmed.

7:15 to 7:40?: She uses a key to unlock the front door and sees the bodies of Gary & Chris Rhoden Sr. Exact time not known

Pike County: 'I was not leaving those babies in there'

7:49 am: Bobby Jo calls 911 Ibid.
Audio of call

7:53 am: PCSO Dep. Music and Dep. Chandler are dispatched to 4077 Union Hill Road in response to the 7:49 am 911 call from BJM. Ibid.

Approx 7:55 am: Billy Jo Manley runs next door to trailer of Frankie Rhoden & Hannah Gilley. Door is locked, she hears toddler inside, asks him to open the door. She then discovers the bodies of Frankie & Hannah. She takes the children outside to her car.
Ibid.

7:15 - 7:53 am: Sometime after discovering the bodies, Billy Jo Manley calls her brother James Manley. He and his son go to the home of Dana Rhoden and discover she is dead. According to his wife, James doesn't go further into Dana's home, though he can see her legs and hear a baby crying.
Ibid

8:07 am: Deputy Chandler arrived "at a neighboring residence where he was flagged down by a subject. Deputy Chandler advised that he needed multiple ambulances due to multiple down at multiple residences."

8:12 am: Deputy Music, Deputy Ball, and Major Evans all arrived "on scene" where they were approached by [Redacted] (later revealed it was James Manley) who stated: "there are two more dead people here." [Redacted] pointed to the residence at 4077 Union Hill.

From <OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #5>

8:07 am - 8:17 am: Time of death declared for victims.

8:21 am: PCSO request for assistance sent to BCI

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/
OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #5

12:13 pm: at least 4 BCI Crime Scene Unit trucks are seen at the intersection of Hwy 32 and Union Hill Road headed towards the crime scenes. (Source: tweet including a photo made by Gannett Ohio reporter @saranealeigh)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #5

1:26 pm Friday: Donald Stone calls 911 to report discovery of Kenneth Rhoden’s body

LISTEN: 911 calls from Pike County mass killing

Audio of call
911 call: April 22 in Pike County. 1:26 p.m.

1:36 pm -- Ohio AG Mike DeWine issues a press release: 7 people murdered in "execution-style killings"
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

1:49 pm - Time of death listed for Kenneth Rhoden

http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/

Saturday, 4/23/2016

Abt 3 - 4am - LE arrives at Bobby Jo Manley's residence to question her; 5 others also questioned
Pike County Murders: Father says it’s like ‘tearing the scabs off us’

Kenny Rhoden (cousin) calls 911 in Greenup Co, KY stating he is being chased by a green Chrysler in South Shore, KY.
'I fear for my life,' Rhoden family member tells 911 | Ohio News

Businessman Jeff Ruby offers $25,000 reward
Jeff Ruby offers $25K reward for Pike Co. killer

Sunday, April 24, 2016

Autopsies performed by Hamilton County Medical Examiner in Cincinnati, OH
https://mgtvwcmh.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/pike-county-final-autopsies-redacted.pdf
http://nbc4i.com/2016/09/23/attorney-general-releases-autopsies-for-rhoden-family-members/

Thursday, April 28, 2016

Funeral for Gary Rhoden, South Shore, KY
Family honors first of 8 Pike County victims at service

Jake Wagner files for custody of Sophia, age 2, his daughter with Hanna Rhoden

Court docs: Suspect filed for custody of child at heart of Pike County investigation days after slayings

Friday, April 29, 2016

Businessman Jeff Ruby withdraws his reward of $25,000. News reports say he was advised not to discuss the withdrawal
Cartel concerns behind Jeff Ruby's withdrawal of $25K reward

Saturday, April 30, 2016
Funeral for Hannah Gilley in Ottway, OH
Hannah Gilley, 20, laid to rest near her childhood home

Tuesday, May 3, 2016
Funeral for Rhoden family - Chris Sr, Dana, Frankie, Hanna, Chris Jr. and Kenneth
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...always-scar-this-town/yRPTKlTHsLqHb2kAg3M2lN/

Thursday, May 12, 2016
Trailers of family members Chris Rhoden Sr, Frankie Rhoden & Kenneth Rhoden were sealed and moved to storage at Hasdell Chemical Co. in Waverly, OH. Dana Rhoden’s trailer was moved later, on Sunday, May 15.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...nty-mobile-homes-moved-crime-scenes/84288652/

Friday, May 13, 2016

PCSO/BCI conducts a video interview of Jake Wagner

OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#41

Tuesday, May 17, 2016

AG Mike DeWine claims Rhoden family trailers and homes were moved to preserve evidence and to protect the family’s possessions that remain inside. Real property and remaining outbuildings, etc. are released to surviving family members.
Properties released to family of Pike County victims

Friday, May 25, 2016

PCSO/BCI conducts a video interview of Jake Wagner

Jake Wagner appears in court, some evidence turned over to his attorneys
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/upload_2019-1-8_20-5-19-jpeg.163299/

Friday, May 27, 2016

Death certificates released to news media
http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/

Times of death (preliminary) :

8:07 am Chris Rhoden, Sr, Gary Rhoden

8:11 am Frankie Rhoden, Hannah Gilley

8:17 am Dana Rhoden, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden, Jr.

1:49 pm Kenneth Rhoden


Thursday, July 21, 2016

Pike County Sheriff announces a $10,000 reward, 10 weeks late, after it was approved
Rhoden murder reward announced - 10 weeks late

Tuesday, July, 26, 2016
Coroner, attorney general refuse to release final autopsies in Pike County killings

Coroner, attorney general refuse to release final autopsies in Pike County killings

August 2016

Jacob Wagner, father of Hanna Rhoden's older daughter, lists his family farm for sale. Location is 260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OH

Sometime after murders and before May 2017 raid on Wagner properties, it is determined through testing that JW is not the father of Hanna Rhoden's second child.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...-away-scene-rhoden-family-massacre/101600436/

Monday, August 8, 2016

Columbus Dispatch files lawsuit against Pike County Coroner’s office saying it is improperly withholding final autopsy results.

Coroner, attorney general refuse to release final autopsies in Pike County killings

Friday, September 9, 2016

PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with George Wagner III

Jake Wagner appears in court, some evidence turned over to his attorneys

Friday, September 23, 2016

Ohio AG releases heavily redacted final autopsy reports

Ohio AG releases redacted Rhoden autopsy reports

Attorney General releases heavily redacted Pike County autopsy reports

Wednesday, October 5, 2016

PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with Angela Wagner
Ibid

2017

Tuesday, February 21, 2017

Ohio Supreme Court agrees to hear lawsuit case of Ohio newspapers seeking to view unredacted final autopsy reports
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ohio-court-will-hear-debate-on-autopsies-of-8-family-members

Tuesday, March 10, 2017
Jake Wagner's Peterson Rd house sells for $165,000

Thursday, April 13, 2017

PCSO/BCI conduct an audio interview with Jake Wagner
https://local12.com/news/local/jake-wagner-appears

Friday, April 21, 2017

Rhoden family members plead with public for tips to solve murders
https://www.dispatch.com/news/20170...members-plead-for-tips-to-solve-massacre-of-8

Saturday, April 22, 2017

Pike County LE place a GPS tracking device on truck owned by James Manley, brother of Dana Manley Rhoden. LE claims it was placed there because the truck was related to an aggravated murder case

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/

Friday, April 28, 2017

11:35 am - James Manley finds and removes tracking device and destroys it

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/

Wednesday, May 3, 2017

PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with Jake and Angela Wagner

https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys

Approx. May 5, 2017

Jacob Wagner asks ___ Brown if he can store some trailers on his property. He tells him his farm is sold and he and his brother have found good paying jobs “up north” and are moving there. He needs to move out of farm for new owners. JW drops off 3 trailers at the Brown property “a week before the search

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...assacre-more-search-details-emerge/101713414/

Monday, May 8, 2017

PCSO/BCI conducts audio interview with George Wagner III
https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys

Tuesday, May 9, 2017
Jake Wagner stopped his activities related to intercepting, wire, oral or electronic communications, per Count 20 of his Indictment

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments.aspx

May 10, 2017
BCI search at 260 Peterson Rd

May 5 - May 12, 2017
Sometime after dropping off 3 trailers loaded with furniture and personal possessions, Jacob Wagner and family leave the area. Later posts on FB show photos of them in a location resembling areas in Alaska or Canada.

Friday, May 12, 2017

Abt 11 am - PCSO, BCI, Adams County SO, Ohio Dept. of Corrections STAR and other Ohio LE agencies conduct a search at properties related to Jacob Wagner & family.

260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OH - farm formerly owned by Wagner's parents, where JW resided with his mother, father, brother, daughter Sophia Rhoden Wagner and daughter of his brother George.


Unlimited Motors, St Hwy 41, Peebles, OH - Auto repair business and farm of ___ Brown, friend of J Wagner.
Ibid

Saturday, May 13, 2017
LE team PCSO, BCI) raids Flying W Farms. Franklin County Sheriff's office assists. Franklin County claims their SWAT team accompanied the raid, saying they had an arrest warrant. FCSO later retracts the statement. A neighbor of Flying W Farms who witnessed the vehicle caravan entering and leaving the property is interviewed, claiming there was a SWAT vehicle and an ambulance present.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...elative-charged-evidence-tampering/101747576/

http://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/2017/05/16/rhoden-investigation-intensifies/101759968/

From <https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/media-timeline-no-discussion-pike-co-oh-8-family-members-murdered.306329/page-8>

PCSO/BCI conducts an audio interview with Angela Wagner

https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys

Tuesday, May 16, 2017

PCSO/BCI conduct audio interview with Angela Wagner

https://local12.com/news/local/jake...rt-some-evidence-turned-over-to-his-attorneys

May 18, 2017
BCI searches a Ford Excursion, retrieves items for testing and submitted as evidence

Jan 17, 2019 Discovery list

June 8, 2017

BCI searches trash at Days Inn, Jackson, OH (presume this hotel where GW3 and family stayed)

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/5zbix3y0ow6tp04l/images/7-f66b74f151.jpg

June 19, 2017
AG DeWine and Sheriff Reader make public appeal for information about Wagner family

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20170...n-about-family-regarding-pike-county-slayings


June ? 2017

Wagner family leaves Ohio to eventually end up living in Kenai, AK


July 2017

Wagner family has some kind of possible real estate transaction in Montana

(Need link to discovery document)

July 13, 2017
Search of property on Bethel Hill Rd, Piketon, OH; near Flying W Farms.
(link to discovery document) Jake Wagner Supplemental discovery evidence list Jan 17, 2019

Thursday, December 14, 2017
Ohio Supreme Court rules against Columbus Dispatch and Cincinnati Enquirer in lawsuit to release unredacted final autopsy reports
https://www.timesgazette.com/news/22296/ohio-high-court-shields-autopsy-reports-in-rhoden-case

2018

April 15, 2018

Wagner trailer search (location unknown)
Jan 17, 2019 Discovery list

April 19, 2018
Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk says Wagner family remains the focus of the Rhoden/Gilley murder investigation
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...investigation-stands-after-2-years/531686002/

Spring 2018
Wagner family members return from AK to Flying W Farms and later South Webster, OH. George Wagner IV returns later, arriving before the arrests

Per AG DeWine press conference at time of arrests

Approx. July 2018

Grand Jury is seated in Pike County to hear evidence and testimony in the Rhoden/Gilley murder case
https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/custody-fight-key-pike-county-case/aIKzRHo4MOwwNc4x9IvkyO/

July 14, 2018
Fredericka Wagner testifies before the Pike County Grand Jury regarding purchase of bullet-proof vests, among other evidence.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5782209-Motion-to-Dismiss-Fredericka-Wagner-Charges.html

Wednesday, July 18, 2018
Rita Jo Newcomb testifies before the Pike County Grand Jury, later charged with perjury and obstructing justice
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx

Tuesday, July 24, 2018
Fredericka Wagner testifies before the Pike County Grand Jury, later charged with perjury and obstructing justice

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx

Wednesday, September 19, 2018
Unredacted preliminary autopsy reports of Rhoden/Gilley victims released for viewing by news media. Complete final autopsy reports remain heavily redacted

https://www.wcpo.com/news/state/sta...reporters-to-inspect-slain-family-s-autopsies

Thursday, October 11, 2018
Registered mail to George Wagner IV pertaining to custody agreement delivered to him at South Webster, OH
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...amily-arrested-43.421692/page-5#post-14792043

Tuesday, October 31, 2018
Investigators gathered the final piece of evidence – a silencer
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...alks-investigation-and-whats-next/2012179002/

BCI search of well at 260 Peterson Rd – retrieved silencer
Jake Wagner Supplemental Discovery Evidence List Jan 17, 2019

Wednesday, November 7, 2018
Lab experts completed examination of the silencer
Ibid.

Monday, November 12, 2018
Grand Jury hands down murder charges against 4 Wagner family members and forgery, obstruction of justice and other charges against Rita Jo Newcomb and Fredericka Wagner
Ibid.

Tuesday, November 13, 2018
Indictments filed, bringing charges against:
George Wagner III, Angela Jo Wagner, George Wagner IV, Edward "Jake" Wagner, Fredericka Wagner and Rita Jo Newcomb. Arrests of all were made the same day
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...cial-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...ecutions/PikeCountyAdditionalIndictments.aspx

Indictments allege George Wagner III, George Wagner IV, Angela Wagner, Jake Wagner and Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge against Ohio AG Mike DeWine and Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader

https://www.chillicothegazette.com/...-bond-made-rhoden-family-massacre/2010483002/

Wednesday, November 14, 2018
AG DeWine says custody battle was at the center of the Rhoden/Gilley murders
https://www.wlwt.com/article/6-arre...-killing-of-8-in-pike-county-ag-says/25055118

George Wagner III waives extradition from KY, where he was arrested
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-ne...-billy-wagner-waives-extradition-1/1596958670

November 15 - December 5, 2018
All suspects indicted in connection with Rhoden/Gilley murders arraigned on charges and plead not guilty
https://www.tdn-net.com/top-stories/53228/last-rhoden-murder-suspect-arraigned

Link to Pike County Clerk of Courts/Case Dockets
For information about charges, hearing schedules, docket, etc.
https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...3slFUypQdLsM-OrQTOL3MTawuVIJicCV6NlLEK2J3s3aQ

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

Stop with the direct or indirect accusations and insinuations about FW. She has NOT been charged as an accomplice or an accessory in this crime, and she has not been officially named as a POI or suspect.

To those members who think it's okay to make such accusations and insinuations, please read Websleuths Victim Friendly policy until you fully understand it:

The "victim friendly" rule extends to family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, or others who have not been officially designated by law enforcement or in mainstream media as a Person of Interest or suspect is not allowed (i.e. Sleuthing out this type of information, and publicly posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public is not allowed and such posts will be removed, along with any posts that encourage such sleuthing).

This does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media. Members may reasonably discuss what is said in MSM by them or about them, but do not make random accusations, insinuations, suggest their involvement, bash and attack them, or speculate negatively about them.

Failure to adhere to the above very basic WS policy may result in a loss of posting privileges, temporary or permanent.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Please continue discussions here

 

[Piffcat]

The sks would not fit in a normal 5 gallon bucket. So either the bucket was bigger or the sks was cut down. Getting rid of the barrel makes ballistics impossible. I have heard even people scraping the inside can make it harder. They could still match the casings by strike mark and they must have the lower reciever part of sks which is place serial number must be. Hopefully it's just cut in half and both halves in bucket

 

[Cool Cats]

New thread good timing. Today is the day Jake's Proffer is supposed to be handed over to defense attorneys.

Look out for Motions possibly being filed after the attorneys read this, this proffer might spark some of that kind of activity...stay tuned .. !

Will it spark any guilty pleas? Maybe some of them won't plead guilty due to not being able to appeal.

Guilty Pleas Are Meant to Be Final
Guilty pleas save courts and prosecutors time and resources by putting an end to the legal and factual disputes that would otherwise be the subject of legal briefs, witness testimony, hearings, and trials.

If all those issues could be brought up in an appeals court after a guilty plea, the benefits of that plea would be lost. During the hearing, the judge will typically state that a defendant may have no right to appeal a conviction based on a guilty plea.

Guilty Pleas and Appeals

 

[Betty P]

Going back to earlier discussion about Gary Rhoden's dad's remarks to reporters at Gery's funeral, IIRC Mr. Rhoden said police had found 2 empty /spent cartridges from 2 different weapons at the Chris and Gary's crime scene. We had a discussion about how the killers missed catching all the brass.

Its hard, if not impossible to find the video of that interview now. It was edited not long after . I assume LE was trying to prevent the killers destroying the weapons.

This is the only version of the interview I can find for now.

Here's a longer version of the interview, but no mention of the empty casings. He does say it was someone they knew because none of the doors were busted down.

 

[Cool Cats]

Going back to earlier discussion about Gary Rhoden's dad's remarks to reporters at Gery's funeral, IIRC Mr. Rhoden said police had found 2 empty /spent cartridges from 2 different weapons at the Chris and Gary's crime scene. We had a discussion about how the killers missed catching all the brass.

Its hard, if not impossible to find the video of that interview now. It was edited not long after . I assume LE was trying to prevent the killers destroying the weapons.

This is the only version of the interview I can find for now.

Here's a longer version of the interview, but no mention of the empty casings. He does say it was someone they knew because none of the doors were busted down.

I want to know if George's Glock gets a forensic match. They have the bullets now they can be compared to the gun's barrel. If George's fingerprints are on the Glock and a crime scene bullet matches the Glock's gun barrel, that would be too difficult for Nash to dispute.

How can a bullet be traced to a particular gun?

The image in 1st photo below shows the rifling (the arrangement of spiral grooves on the inside of a rifle barrel).

The barrel has eight lands and grooves inclined to the left, as seen from the muzzle-end of a firearm. The lands and grooves appear as raised and lowered areas, respectively, in the barrel.

In the 2nd image these rifling characteristics are then imparted onto the bullet as it spins down the barrel, leaving land and groove impressions on the fired bullet.

 

[Dudly]

Going back to earlier discussion about Gary Rhoden's dad's remarks to reporters at Gery's funeral, IIRC Mr. Rhoden said police had found 2 empty /spent cartridges from 2 different weapons at the Chris and Gary's crime scene. We had a discussion about how the killers missed catching all the brass.

Its hard, if not impossible to find the video of that interview now. It was edited not long after . I assume LE was trying to prevent the killers destroying the weapons.

This is the only version of the interview I can find for now.

Here's a longer version of the interview, but no mention of the empty casings. He does say it was someone they knew because none of the doors were busted down.

It is hard to watch that interview. He was devastated at the loss of his son. Then he passed away not seeing justice prevail for his son.

 

[Berrybell]

I want to know if George's Glock gets a forensic match. They have the bullets now they can be compared to the gun's barrel. If George's fingerprints are on the Glock and a crime scene bullet matches the Glock's gun barrel, that would be too difficult for Nash to dispute.

How can a bullet be traced to a particular gun?

The image in 1st photo below shows the rifling (the arrangement of spiral grooves on the inside of a rifle barrel).

The barrel has eight lands and grooves inclined to the left, as seen from the muzzle-end of a firearm. The lands and grooves appear as raised and lowered areas, respectively, in the barrel.

In the 2nd image these rifling characteristics are then imparted onto the bullet as it spins down the barrel, leaving land and groove impressions on the fired bullet.

CC, it will depend on if the barrel was altered. They could have used a drill or tools to damage the inside of the barrel and that would/could affect any forensics.

 

[Covert Operative]

I want to know if George's Glock gets a forensic match. They have the bullets now they can be compared to the gun's barrel. If George's fingerprints are on the Glock and a crime scene bullet matches the Glock's gun barrel, that would be too difficult for Nash to dispute.

How can a bullet be traced to a particular gun?

The image in 1st photo below shows the rifling (the arrangement of spiral grooves on the inside of a rifle barrel).

The barrel has eight lands and grooves inclined to the left, as seen from the muzzle-end of a firearm. The lands and grooves appear as raised and lowered areas, respectively, in the barrel.

In the 2nd image these rifling characteristics are then imparted onto the bullet as it spins down the barrel, leaving land and groove impressions on the fired bullet.

If it was G4's gun then his prints would probably be on the gun anyway from other times. He may try to say JW took his Glock without his permission and he did not know it. I am not sure that a match of prints or ballistics would be something that proves G4 used that gun. Their lies do have to match the evidence somewhat though. It does not seem that JW shot GR, it would seem that G4 or BW shot him.

We are still going by pre confession information, how it seemed to make sense and how the state believed and implied it to make sense, which seems logical. It could be that some of that thinking has shifted a slight bit or it may not have. I do not think the state was able to put a specific gun in a specific person's hand with physical evidence before his confession. They still may not be able to do that with physical evidence but can do so with JW's confession. (if he told the truth about who actually pulled triggers)

 

[Covert Operative]

The sks would not fit in a normal 5 gallon bucket. So either the bucket was bigger or the sks was cut down. Getting rid of the barrel makes ballistics impossible. I have heard even people scraping the inside can make it harder. They could still match the casings by strike mark and they must have the lower reciever part of sks which is place serial number must be. Hopefully it's just cut in half and both halves in bucket

They apparently found the part of the SKS with a serial number to do an etrace but a comparison is not listed on discovery as it is on the other two. The barrel part of the SKS may have been in bucket one which was not recovered. Could be that some discovery has not been filed yet. In Junk's last motion he did say it had all been turned over though.

 

[Cool Cats]

CC, it will depend on if the barrel was altered. They could have used a drill or tools to damage the inside of the barrel and that would/could affect any forensics.

Wow! I never thought. Thanks for pointing this out. You could be right.

I am guessing that they didn't do that to the gun barrels because it was night, dark, and I believe they hurried over to FWF to get rid of the guns and mix the cement.
A drill they would need for speed but it creates noise.

So with the time crunch, being dark, driving to FWF, drill makes noise, etc...
I think they didn't alter the gun barrels. Also, I think that had they used tools on the gun barrels there would have been tools in the buckets of which I don't see in the
Discovery.

 

[Cool Cats]

If it was G4's gun then his prints would probably be on the gun anyway from other times. He may try to say JW took his Glock without his permission and he did not know it. I am not sure that a match of prints or ballistics would be something that proves G4 used that gun. Their lies do have to match the evidence somewhat though. It does not seem that JW shot GR, it would seem that G4 or BW shot him.

We are still going by pre confession information, how it seemed to make sense and how the state believed and implied it to make sense, which seems logical. It could be that some of that thinking has shifted a slight bit or it may not have. I do not think the state was able to put a specific gun in a specific person's hand with physical evidence before his confession. They still may not be able to do that with physical evidence but can do so with JW's confession. (if he told the truth about who actually pulled triggers)

So what your saying is:

That if a bullet and even a casing match the Glock, and George's prints are on it, that still can't prove George used it that night. I would say it would be very strong circumstantial evidence.

Then add in CN's testimony about buying a Glock and being a Glock man. Then there is Jake's gun list on his phone listing the guns for each family member. If George is listed as owning a Glock that is strong circumstantial evidence, and so is CN's testimony - if he were to testify.

If Jake's prints are on the gun then maybe Nash will put it the way you describe, that Jake "borrowed" the Glock and used it himself. I don't think the Jury will buy it.
I think its obvious this was a 2 or 3 person crime, too much just for Jake to pull off alone.

Plus, there are 2 different sized shoe prints, It is not reasonable that Jake anticipated blood on the floor and brought a pair that fit George to leave "George's shoe Prints."

 

[Berrybell]

Wow! I never thought. Thanks for pointing this out. You could be right.

I am guessing that they didn't do that to the gun barrels because it was night, dark, and I believe they hurried over to FWF to get rid of the guns and mix the cement.
A drill they would need for speed but it creates noise.

So with the time crunch, being dark, driving to FWF, drill makes noise, etc...
I think they didn't alter the gun barrels. Also, I think that had they used tools on the gun barrels there would have been tools in the buckets of which I don't see in the
Discovery.

A battery operated hand drill is very mobile and easy to use, they are also not that loud I wouldn't be suspicious of my neighbor using a drill it literally takes seconds to run a drill down the barrel of gun. You wouldn't need to dispose of the drill only wipe it off, any metal shavings from the barrel would be easy clean off or a drill.

 

[Covert Operative]

So what your saying is:

That if a bullet and even a casing match the Glock, and George's prints are on it, that still can't prove George used it that night. I would say it would be very strong circumstantial evidence.

Then add in CN's testimony about buying a Glock and being a Glock man. Then there is Jake's gun list on his phone listing the guns for each family member. If George is listed as owning a Glock that is strong circumstantial evidence, and so is CN's testimony - if he were to testify.

If Jake's prints are on the gun then maybe Nash will put it the way you describe, that Jake "borrowed" the Glock and used it himself. I don't think the Jury will buy it.
I think its obvious this was a 2 or 3 person crime, too much just for Jake to pull off alone.

It would be strong circumstantial, I agree. They may have other evidence now that shows G4 used that gun and they may have JW saying he did or did not.

 

[Cool Cats]

A battery operated hand drill is very mobile and easy to use, they are also not that loud I wouldn't be suspicious of my neighbor using a drill it literally takes seconds to run a drill down the barrel of gun. You wouldn't need to dispose of the drill only wipe it off, any metal shavings from the barrel would be easy clean off or a drill.

Thanks! I'm thinking of noisy ones but evidently some are quieter.

 

[LMDlong]

Anyone know of GW having a motion hearing this afternoon ?
I seen it posted on a face book page for 1:30 pm today , never noticed it before.

 

[Cool Cats]

It would be strong circumstantial, I agree. They may have other evidence now that shows G4 used that gun and they may have JW saying he did or did not.

I added to that post after you quoted it that there are 2 different sized shoe prints and that it's not reasonable that Jake anticipated blood thus bringing along shoes that are George's size, to frame him.

 

[Cool Cats]

Anyone know of GW having a motion hearing this afternoon ?
I seen it posted on a face book page for 1:30 pm today , never noticed it before.

Not listed on court Docket so I don't think there is one. Facebook would get it from the Docket so how did Facebook get their information? Weird.