GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #64

[Berrybell]

So what your saying is:

That if a bullet and even a casing match the Glock, and George's prints are on it, that still can't prove George used it that night. I would say it would be very strong circumstantial evidence.

Then add in CN's testimony about buying a Glock and being a Glock man. Then there is Jake's gun list on his phone listing the guns for each family member. If George is listed as owning a Glock that is strong circumstantial evidence, and so is CN's testimony - if he were to testify.

If Jake's prints are on the gun then maybe Nash will put it the way you describe, that Jake "borrowed" the Glock and used it himself. I don't think the Jury will buy it.
I think its obvious this was a 2 or 3 person crime, too much just for Jake to pull off alone.

Plus, there are 2 different sized shoe prints, It is not reasonable that Jake anticipated blood on the floor and brought a pair that fit George to leave "George's shoe Prints."

I agree with both of you CC and Covert. The prosecution will present tangible evidence and circumstantial evidence. The defense will attempt to chip away at all evidence one piece at time. I kinda of think of it this way, the prosecution will show the jury the forest and the defense will want them to only look at the trees individually.

 

[Covert Operative]

I added to that post after you quoted it that there are 2 different sized shoe prints and that it's not reasonable that Jake anticipated blood thus bringing along shoes that are George's size, to frame him.

Yes, maybe someone else wore those shoes but I would say G4 is the best guess from what we know. He could have been there but was not the one that used the Glock. It seems unlikely but possible. JW did know all the states evidence and what they could prove before his confession.

 

[Covert Operative]

Not listed on court Docket so I don't think there is one. Facebook would get it from the Docket so how did Facebook get their information? Weird.

Anyone know of GW having a motion hearing this afternoon ?
I seen it posted on a face book page for 1:30 pm today , never noticed it before.

There is one on 9-13 at 1:30. Today is 8-13. Perhaps someone has their months mixed up that posted that.

 

[Cool Cats]

There is one on 9-13 at 1:30. Today is 8-13. Perhaps someone has their months mixed up that posted that.

I bet your right then Billy has his just 3 days later.

 

[Covert Operative]

The Glock and 1911 were listed specifically on the discovery. The SKS was also mentioned as an etrace. Suppressors are not listed. Did they not find the suppressors also? Would the suppressors just be considered as part of the gun and not listed separately? From G4's statement - if they have the gun they have the silencer, it seems they would have been together in the same bucket.

Would the suppressors be in Bucket 1 that might not have been found?

 

[Cool Cats]

The Glock and 1911 were listed specifically on the discovery. The SKS was also mentioned as an etrace. Suppressors are not listed. Did they not find the suppressors also? Would the suppressors just be considered as part of the gun and not listed separately? From G4's statement - if they have the gun they have the silencer, it seems they would have been together in the same bucket.

Would the suppressors be in Bucket 1 that might not have been found?

G4's statement - "if they have the gun they have the silencer" could also mean the silencers were with the guns not necessarily attached to the guns. Sounds like they were in the same cement bucket as the guns.

Could you just one more time (I will bookmark it) post this bucket/cement/ guns etc..Discovery list? I'm having trouble following along without seeing the list. Can't find where it was previously posted. Thanks!

 

[Covert Operative]

G4's statement - "if they have the gun they have the silencer" could also mean the silencers were with the guns not necessarily attached to the guns. Sounds like they were in the same cement bucket as the guns.

Could you just one more time (I will bookmark it) post this bucket/cement/ guns etc..Discovery list? I'm having trouble following along without seeing the list. Can't find where it was previously posted. Thanks!

They are not listed separately on discovery so it makes it seem like they were not recovered. Since GR had one contact wound
(Muzzle stain) and FR had two contact wounds (soot from the shots to his head ) it seems that any victim's blood DNA would have the best chance of being on those suppressors. Do not think it would be a big deal if they do not have them but just wondering why they may not be listed.

• Clarence “Frankie” Rhoden (age 20): Three (head). Two were “contact wounds” as indicated by soot from the gun on his skull.
  Pike County massacre: Rhoden family members shot in head at point-blank range, report shows (wcpo.com)

 

[Cool Cats]

They are not listed separately on discovery so it makes it seem like they were not recovered. Since GR had one contact wound
(Muzzle stain) and FR had two contact wounds (soot from the shots to his head ) it seems that any victim's blood DNA would have the best chance of being on those suppressors. Do not think it would be a big deal if they do not have them but just wondering why they may not be listed.

• Clarence “Frankie” Rhoden (age 20): Three (head). Two were “contact wounds” as indicated by soot from the gun on his skull.
  Pike County massacre: Rhoden family members shot in head at point-blank range, report shows (wcpo.com)

I am happy you posted this for me (Discovery). Now I can understand what everyone is talking about! I'm going to go over it. As for blood, I bet blood that people can't see is
on those guns and was on the killers.

I think luminol will show tiny spots of blood, really have to use bleach to be sure to get all the blood off.

 

[Covert Operative]

I am happy you posted this for me (Discovery). Now I can understand what everyone is talking about! I'm going to go over it. As for blood, I bet blood that people can't see is
on those guns and was on the killers.

I think luminol will show tiny spots of blood, really have to use bleach to be sure to get all the blood off.

Yes they could have soaked them in bleach themselves before putting into the cement. Not sure they would have taken the time but they may have.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes they could have soaked them in bleach themselves before putting into the cement. Not sure they would have taken the time but they may have.

They didn't take the time to:

1.) Wipe up footprints
2.) Get rid of silencer some place other than their well
3.) Pick up shell casings at the scenes
4.) Hide the tub of important papers (custody documents and receipt)
5.) Get rid of Jake's phone and Angie's laptop
6.) Buy guns different from the ones they were using at home

7.) Drive out of town and pay cash in small stores instead of leaving a digital trail of purchases on line.

8.) Shop around in thrift stores for shoes instead of WalMart

9.) Wait to talk in person instead of in homes, their truck, or on phone, to keep from being recorded

10.) Wait longer that a few days to try to get custody

 

[Covert Operative]

They didn't take the time to:

1.) Wipe up footprints
2.) Get rid of silencer some place other than their well
3.) Pick up shell casings at the scenes
4.) Hide the tub of important papers (custody documents and receipt)
5.) Get rid of Jake's phone and Angie's laptop
6.) Buy guns different from the ones they were using at home
7.) Drive out of town and pay cash in small stores instead of leaving a digital trail of purchases on line.

8.) Shop around in thrift stores for shoes instead of WalMart

9.) Wait to talk in person instead of in homes, their truck, or on phone, to keep from being recorded

10.) Wait longer that a few days to try to get custody

When you do not think you are going to be caught and/or you are not a smart criminal, probably would not do all that. I can see at the scenes they may not could have taken time to do any cleaning or picking up. It does seem like some of the other things would have been thought of, looking at it with hindsight.

G4 told him he needed to get rid of that phone, I guess G4 is the smarter criminal out of the 4 but JW would not listen to him.

I am surprised they could hide those buckets and they would not be found but there are cases where bodies are overlooked that were there the whole time, so it's probably not that unusual.

Criminals make mistakes or they would never be caught.

 

[Cool Cats]

When you do not think you are going to be caught and/or you are not a smart criminal, probably would not do all that. I can see at the scenes they may not could have taken time to do any cleaning or picking up. It does seem like some of the other things would have been thought of, looking at it with hindsight.

G4 told him he needed to get rid of that phone, I guess G4 is the smarter criminal out of the 4 but JW would not listen to him.

I am surprised they could hide those buckets and they would not be found but there are cases where bodies are overlooked that were there the whole time, so it's probably not that unusual.

Criminals make mistakes or they would never be caught.

Before the murders they underestimated:

Fake custody documents, shoe receipt, fighting over custody, domestic abuse, stalking, sharing the home layouts, custody spread sheet, illegal surveillance, numerous screen shots of private conversations showing computer hacking, cell tower records, Boondock Saints movie, gun list on phone, gun photo on phone, being known as a Glock man, buying a Glock off facebook and shooting all over their property that left all those buried 22 shell casings....

All those purchases: Mask, night scope, bait nets to make brass catchers, bug detectors for counter surveillance, shoes, supplies to make silencers such as maglite flashlights, 10 Freeze plugs purchased at a local auto parts store paid for in cash, nuts, 1 quantity thread adapters/protectors for Colt Numarex 1911. And bought on March 27, 2016 are SKS magazines, SKS ammunition and AR 15 brass catcher.

 

[Dudly]

They are not listed separately on discovery so it makes it seem like they were not recovered. Since GR had one contact wound
(Muzzle stain) and FR had two contact wounds (soot from the shots to his head ) it seems that any victim's blood DNA would have the best chance of being on those suppressors. Do not think it would be a big deal if they do not have them but just wondering why they may not be listed.

• Clarence “Frankie” Rhoden (age 20): Three (head). Two were “contact wounds” as indicated by soot from the gun on his skull.
  Pike County massacre: Rhoden family members shot in head at point-blank range, report shows (wcpo.com)

If the suppressors were still attached to the guns, maybe the would be considered part of the gun and not listed separately. I don’t know how they do that.

 

[ohioexpat63]

Posting so I can follow along.

I do feel all the theories being discussed are very plausible and most likely more accurate than me wanting to believe the reality concerning the kids.

 

[Niner]

Anyone know of GW having a motion hearing this afternoon ?
I seen it posted on a face book page for 1:30 pm today , never noticed it before.

Nope -

GW4:

Hearings:
9/13/2021 01:30 PM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY D

04/04/2022 08:30 AM JURY TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...OV7B0Ptbu4MN-aqC4UR7mvnjbGGsulsLBjezj4gIa5r-Q

and GW

Hearings:
09/16/2021 11:00 AM HEARING ON MOTION DEERING, RANDY D
09/16/2021 11:00 AM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY D

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...OV7B0Ptbu4MN-we0pktr-QpWFGlVZjONbU2khHbCiDUkw



The 8/13 date might have come up with this from my notes:

the State should not expect any additional extensions of this deadline. It is ordered that date by which the State shall furnish the defendant with a copy of the recording of the proffer that the State conducted with co-defendant Jake Wagner is hereby extended to 8/13/21.

It's just a deadline date.

 

[IType]

It is hard to watch that interview. He was devastated at the loss of his son. Then he passed away not seeing justice prevail for his son.

I watched it again a couple days ago, and it is incredibly hard to watch. What a sorrowful burden he showed in his face that day and for years to follow, I'm sure. Such a shame he couldn't have been here on 4/22/2021 with the other Manley, Rhoden and Gilley parents. JMO

 

[ohioexpat63]

I watched it again a couple days ago, and it is incredibly hard to watch. What a sorrowful burden he showed in his face that day and for years to follow, I'm sure. Such a shame he couldn't have been here on 4/22/2021 with the other Manley, Rhoden and Gilley parents. JMO

He appeared so heartbroken but proud. He came across as hard, as if plenty more to say, but very reserved. I found him very typical of my fellow Appalachian, in my experiences in life.

 

[LMDlong]

There is one on 9-13 at 1:30. Today is 8-13. Perhaps someone has their months mixed up that posted that.

It is for next month. Got excited thought something might had been happening today . I found out it was the wrong date .

 

[Antimony]

`If they have recovered 4 buckets out of five, How would they know there were five and not just four?
Why is the "missing" bucket known as bucket #1 and not #5?

 

[Covert Operative]

`If they have recovered 4 buckets out of five, How would they know there were five and not just four?
Why is the "missing" bucket known as bucket #1 and not #5?

-Maybe JW told them there were 5. Could be in his proffer he called them in a certain order so they wanted to leave them in that order so it would match.
-They could not find bucket #1? Seems they may have drained the pond if not, but not sure if they would.
-Bucket 1 is on some discovery not filed in court yet?
- Puzzles said perhaps Bucket 1 goes with another crime and not this one, which could be.
-It's a typo.
Can you think of any other reasons?