GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

[ColMustard]

No prob. Here is something from the April, 2021 search. Shows they found the 2 vehicles and 3 guns Jake led them to.

State's Supplemental Discovery, Filed Jun 21, 2021

DNA:
Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

Latent Prints:
Knife from Concrete 5/14/21

FWF

ATF Etrace:
1911
Glock
SKS

Ford-F 150 (67 images)
GMC Sierra
GMC Sierra Photos - Athens County (65 images)
GMC Sierra Photos - PCSO Impound (50 images)
Photos 4-21-21 (10 images)

Here is the page that mentions the concrete buckets. @Covert Operative has the other pages, they keep getting deleted!

There has been lots of speculation on why there is a knife and whose DNA and prints are on it. My view is I don't believe the knife was used to cut the victims. The Wagner's MO was using firearms as weapons not knives.

Yes alot of autopsy information is redacted but I do not believe it has anything to do with knives. Knives are up close and personal and time consuming. The Wagners were in too much of a hurry and too cowardly to use knives as weapons.

They didn't want to have to take time to threaten and subdue victims, they ambushed them asleep instead. They subdued Chris Sr with gun fire starting from the front porch is my belief. No time for knives.

I think the knife was used to cut down the trail cameras and to open cement buckets, stuff like that. Billy carried a leatherman's tool on him so would make sense they carried a knife as a tool. Leatherman is an American brand of multitools with knives.

Fact Sheet - eTrace: Internet-Based Firearms Tracing and Analysis | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

I'm guessing we don't have access to the photos mentioned? Particularly, the photos of the vehicles.

Now I'm wondering if each W male drove a separate vehicle to the crime scenes. On the list above there's an F-150 and GMC Sierra. Makes me wonder how the Ford Excursion fits into all this. Remember, LE made a trip to Kentucky and retrieved samples from the interior of the Excursion.

AW sold the Excursion some time after the murders (ad posted here), and a receipt to AW for leather repair on the interior surfaced (was posted here), dated after the murders.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm guessing we don't have access to the photos mentioned? Particularly, the photos of the vehicles.

Now I'm wondering if each W male drove a separate vehicle to the crime scenes. On the list above there's an F-150 and GMC Sierra. Makes me wonder how the Ford Excursion fits into all this. Remember, LE made a trip to Kentucky and retrieved samples from the interior of the Excursion.

AW sold the Excursion some time after the murders (ad posted here), and a receipt to AW for leather repair on the interior surfaced (was posted here), dated after the murders.

Hi. Haven't heard from you in quite awhile Col. Nice to hear from you. important court date for George in December.

I thought Jake said they used 2 vehicles, one bought for that night. I can't find anything on it right now. I know Jake specifically said 3 guns. The excursion was not necessarily used.

Interesting, they saw the excursion pull up to the Walmart and Angie get into the passenger side that same day she bought the 2 pairs of murder shoes. They said she was the owner of the excursion.

Probably repairing the leather to fix it up to sell it.

~ Scheiderer Bond Hearing ~

 

[CIA Team Member]

It surprised me that a casing or casings were found on the porch and a bullet under the house. It shows a more disorganized crime scene than I had thought. Disaster does come to mind.

I think Chris saw them coming which is why there is a casing or casings on the porch. He had floodlights that could show people in the cars driving up. I think the Wagner's walked up but that would still set off flood lights. Plus he had cameras mounted.

I am thinking differently about the timeline. The "Chris being more decomposed" statement made me think Chris was killed earlier and they hung around there waiting for Dana to get home from work, then Gary showed up.

But according to Jake's timeline they did everything from before midnight to after midnight and that sounds alot faster to me.

I now think Gary was already there in the house and Chris was more decomposed because he wasn't shot only in the head, but also in the torso and extremities.

So if not hanging around there waiting why move a body or bodies out of the living room? Why not leave them were they were. I think this has something to do with staging/tampering with the crime scene to help throw investigators off.

What surprises me the most is how careless they were at the scenes by leaving shell casings and footprints. It actually sounds very rushed to me, done alot quicker than
one would imagine.

At George's trial I hope we get a clearer picture which I believe we will. I do believe we will see a trial because I do not believe the prosecution will give George the plea deal he wants, thus, he will stick to his scheduled trial in April 2022. (2 Cents)

Massacred Ohio family used video surveillance, survivors say | wkyc.com

Leonard Manley, the father of Dana Rhoden, said his former son-in-law had at least two video cameras mounted to a building near the entrance of his trailer. When motorists arrived at this driveway, a sensor would turn lights on.

“You could clearly see the cars and even the people inside," said Manley, sitting outside his home Tuesday about 85 miles east of Cincinnati.

He said he believed Christopher Rhoden Sr. kept the cameras on at all times but Manley did not know if authorities had video from those cameras. DeWine and investigators have chosen not to release details of their investigation, now nearly three weeks old.

Manley’s youngest daughter, Bobby Jo Manley, told The Enquirer that Kenneth Rhoden also had a video security system at his trailer about eight miles away. She said she knew they were there because she had cleaned his trailer on occasion.

It's my understanding Gary lived there so why are some implying he surprised them when he arrived? He would've NOT lived there in quite some time for some to state he surprised them by arriving; IDK

 

[Piffcat]

It's possible gary had recently arrived in response to the latest fight between Billy and cr. I'm sure he also helped cr w cars but b3 threatened to come back and kill them all. Gary was trusted by cr seems like a reasonable response

 

[Cool Cats]

It's possible gary had recently arrived in response to the latest fight between Billy and cr. I'm sure he also helped cr w cars but b3 threatened to come back and kill them all. Gary was trusted by cr seems like a reasonable response

Gary had been there several months before Billy pulled the gun on Chris, which happened only within a week of the murders.

Pike County: Death in the foothills

Their cousin, Gary, had been living and working alongside Chris Sr. for several months. Chris Sr. had worked to get Gary off of drugs and alcohol and had helped him repeatedly to stay clean and sober, said Gary’s stepmother, Ruth Rhoden.

“Chris got him off of all that stuff,” she said, adding that Gary often worked with Chris Sr. at Big Bear Lake.

That meant that paydays would come and Chris would hold back most of Gary’s pay to ensure he wouldn’t spend it on drugs. Instead of giving him the money, he would go shopping or run errands with his cousin.

“He was really, really good to Gary,” she said.

Other Acts #7
Defendant threatened Chris Sr with a gun within a week of the homicides.

Moderator Approved

 

[altojack]

It's my understanding Gary lived there so why are some implying he surprised them when he arrived? He would've NOT lived there in quite some time for some to state he surprised them by arriving; IDK

I wholeheartedly agree with you here. Wasn't Gary Living there getting help off whatever drugs he was or had been using. Chris Snr said he would look after him.

IMO Gary had a late night life style and the W s thought they'd be safe getting to Snr whilst he was alone. But what a shocker, Gary was home that night, before midnight.

 

[altojack]

I can understand the reason that Chris Snr was more decomposed partly because he was killed before midnight, quite some time before the others. He also suffered badly with so many shots to his body and extremities, but IMO he was badly cut with the knife that was found in one of the cement buckets.

I don't often disagree with @Cool Cats but about the knife, it wasn't for cutting wires or cables. JMO It was a weapon.

It was used by G4.
All my own opinion. The knife wounds weren't stabs to kill but cuts, slashes to torture him for what reason we're not sure. It could be the Ws wanted Chris to open the safe, wanted cash, we just don't know.

 

[Cool Cats]

It's my understanding Gary lived there so why are some implying he surprised them when he arrived? He would've NOT lived there in quite some time for some to state he surprised them by arriving; IDK

I think some people think Gary wasn't home when the Wagner Crime Family went there and then while they were there Gary came home when they weren't expecting him so it surprised them.

But I agree with you, they knew Gary lived with Chris and it should be no surprise to have him come home. I think they would have been surprised if he hadn't been there.

I believe this all happened real fast and Gary was there that night when they got there and was shot at the same time Chris was. I think Chris was more decomposed - not from being shot hours earlier - but because he was shot more times and in his torso and extremities, unlike the others.

So I just don't think they were sitting around there for a while and then Gary walks in. It took place before and after midnight, a short time span it sounds like. Plus, Gary was working during the day and likely didn't go out and party with Chris holding his money...2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

I can understand the reason that Chris Snr was more decomposed partly because he was killed before midnight, quite some time before the others. He also suffered badly with so many shots to his body and extremities, but IMO he was badly cut with the knife that was found in one of the cement buckets.

I don't often disagree with @Cool Cats but about the knife, it wasn't for cutting wires or cables. JMO It was a weapon.

It was used by G4.
All my own opinion. The knife wounds weren't stabs to kill but cuts, slashes to torture him for what reason we're not sure. It could be the Ws wanted Chris to open the safe, wanted cash, we just don't know.

With a casing on the porch, bullet under the house, and others in the living room, it doesn't seem that they took any time to torture him with a knife.

BJM did think he looked beaten but that would be with fists not a knife. She didn't say he was cut up or anything like that.

Shooting him and beating him was enough to try to get him to give out a combination if that is what they wanted.

But then @Johnny B Bad did say that there was no reason to put the knife in cement if it wasn't used to cut someone.

I just can't see the reason for the Wagners to shoot 33 times, counting bullet under house, and maybe beat Chris, but then on top of that start cutting someone.

It isn't fitting the Wagner's MO for that night.

Hummm....

 

[Piffcat]

You have to understand that when something like this happens family survivors need to be painted in a positive light. Both for emotional reasons and justice. Without getting into toc specifics imo this was the case with several naratives- cr and Dr's reconciliation, Gary's activities and living situation. I'm not saying they are outright fabrications, more like embellishment. Dewine himself called crsr trailer a shell. I'm sure Gary stayed their plenty but it was not his permanent residence. On this most recent stay i believe he arrived that week. The wagners surveillance was technology and physical eyes on type. Someone without a phone or vehicle would be able to slip under the radar so to speak... <modsnip - discussing someone not named a POI>

 

[altojack]

With a casing on the porch, bullet under the house, and others in the living room, it doesn't seem that they took any time to torture him with a knife.

BJM did think he looked beaten but that would be with fists not a knife. She didn't say he was cut up or anything like that.

Shooting him and beating him was enough to try to get him to give out a combination if that is what they wanted.

But then @Johnny B Bad did say that there was no reason to put the knife in cement if it wasn't used to cut someone.

I just can't see the reason for the Wagners to shoot 33 times, counting bullet under house, and maybe beat Chris, but then on top of that start cutting someone.

It isn't fitting the Wagner's MO for that night.

Hummm....

I see where your at with this but remember BJM saw the bodies one on top of the other and didn't they have something covering them. I don't think BJM would have taken time to scrutinise the injuries, I know I wouldn't, I'd be out the door and make the call.

Nice to be able to have differing opinions though. We will find out in time.

G4 didn't shoot anyone, he didn't kill anyone. No, he didn't shoot, he taunted with a knife.

 

[Cool Cats]

You have to understand that when something like this happens family survivors need to be painted in a positive light. Both for emotional reasons and justice. Without getting into toc specifics imo this was the case with several naratives- cr and Dr's reconciliation, Gary's activities and living situation. I'm not saying they are outright fabrications, more like embellishment. Dewine himself called crsr trailer a shell. I'm sure Gary stayed their plenty but it was not his permanent residence. On this most recent stay i believe he arrived that week. The wagners surveillance was technology and physical eyes on type. Someone without a phone or vehicle would be able to slip under the radar so to speak... <modsnip - discussing someone not named a POI>

DeWine never called the trailer a shell.

LINK?

LM remarked about the roof needing repair not the whole place being run down. No one had a reason to embellish that Dana and Chris were reconciling, Chris lived in the trailer and Gary was with him several months right before the murders.

Easy just to speculate and not believe a relative who is quoted but the narrative is out there plain and simple.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

You have to understand that when something like this happens family survivors need to be painted in a positive light. Both for emotional reasons and justice. Without getting into toc specifics imo this was the case with several naratives- cr and Dr's reconciliation, Gary's activities and living situation. I'm not saying they are outright fabrications, more like embellishment. Dewine himself called crsr trailer a shell. I'm sure Gary stayed their plenty but it was not his permanent residence. On this most recent stay i believe he arrived that week. The wagners surveillance was technology and physical eyes on type. Someone without a phone or vehicle would be able to slip under the radar so to speak... <modsnip - discussing someone not named a POI>

Why would the surviving family members need to "be painted in a positive light"? IMO there wasn't any embellishment, (nor did there need to be) concerning Dana and Chris and their *working on* getting back together.

As for Gary, I have seen a lot of shade being thrown at him, but since he is no longer here to defend himself, as far as I'm concerned...it's gossip with no facts to back it up. All JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

DeWine never called the trailer a shell.

LINK?

LM remarked about the roof needing repair not the whole place being run down. No one had a reason to embellish that Dana and Chris were reconciling, Chris lived in the trailer and Gary was with him several months right before the murders.

Easy just to speculate and not believe a relative who is quoted but the narrative is out there plain and simple.

Agree, and besides, does it really matter how they lived? For me, it doesn't.

 

[Berrybell]

You have misunderstood what I am saying. I'll try to clarify.

First, I am not speaking of GW4's child now. I am referring to motion 73 in GW4's case claiming he did not shoot and kill anyone. IMO, GW4 is trying to get a deal similar to AW's so that 30 years down the road he could try to have a relationship with his son, if and only if his son (as an adult) would allow it.

No one on this Earth knows what GW4's son--or JW's daughter, for that matter--will want to do in reference to having or not having a relationship with his father when said child becomes an adult. When those two youngsters become adults, they will make their own choices. They may want absolutely nothing to do with their fathers. Or, it's possible they may want to make contact with their fathers at some point just to tell them what monsters they are and how their lives were ruined by these murderous acts. They may want to have some correspondence with their fathers but not ever see them face to face. It is impossible for us, or anyone, to tell at this point what they will want once they become adults.

As for your comment regarding GW4's grandmother and the future of her farm, I said nothing about GW4's son running the farm or being involved in it in any fashion. My direct quote (BBM): "BUT GW4 would also be young enough to run his grandmother's farm. I think that is her main concern in all of this, not her love for GW4. She and her husband built this farm up and she wants to be sure someone will be there to run it after she and her daughter are gone. JMO"

I am not referring to FWF having cheap labor. I am referring to my opinion that FW is pushing GW4's attorneys to get him out of jail/prison as soon as possible in order to run her farm when she and her daughter can no longer do the job. If he would get a deal similar to his mother's, he would only be in his 50's when he got out, plenty young enough to still run things.

I was born into a multigenerational farm on both sides of my family. I understand all too well the natural hierarchy that comes along with proud farm owners. On my mom's side, my first cousin and his son are the 5th and 6th consecutive generation to farm our family's land. IMO, I feel very confident in stating that FW wants absolutely no one but a true Wagner to run her farm when she and her daughter can no longer run it.

Granted, she has grandchildren other than GW4 and JW. Hopefully GW4 will spend the rest of his life behind bars and his grandmother will have to find another solution. However, AW gave AC (loosely quoted here) information about other crimes committed by her (AW's) family (see media and timeline thread transcript of AC's comments for the exact wording). If any of that information incriminates the W family beyond BW, GW4 and JW, IMO it's possible there could be no farm left to run.

Just my opinion.

Perfectly said! I too come from a generational large farm/ranching family, the thought of a non-direct bloodline owning it sends them into a meltdown!

We don't know FWs love for her children or grandchildren it may not be our idea of love, but we honestly do not know. From news reports and interviews I do get the impression GW is a favorite. MOO

The children of JW & GW are the only ones who have a right to say what their relationship with their dad's will be once they are adults.

 

[LMDlong]

I can understand the reason that Chris Snr was more decomposed partly because he was killed before midnight, quite some time before the others. He also suffered badly with so many shots to his body and extremities, but IMO he was badly cut with the knife that was found in one of the cement buckets.

I don't often disagree with @Cool Cats but about the knife, it wasn't for cutting wires or cables. JMO It was a weapon.

It was used by G4.
All my own opinion. The knife wounds weren't stabs to kill but cuts, slashes to torture him for what reason we're not sure. It could be the Ws wanted Chris to open the safe, wanted cash, we just don't know.

I am interested in knowing how they intended on busting whoever in the family out of jail if all were not arrested.

 

[Berrybell]

I am interested in knowing how they intended on busting whoever in the family out of jail if all were not arrested.

That would be interesting to know.

 

[Cool Cats]

I am interested in knowing how they intended on busting whoever in the family out of jail if all were not arrested.

I have always been interested in the psychology of the Wagners.

I believe the Wagners suffer from delusional thinking and as part of that delusions of grandeur.

Delusions, or false beliefs, comes in several types. Delusions of grandeur are one of the more common ones. It’s when you believe that you have more power, wealth, smarts, or other grand traits than is true.

Explaining Delusional Thinking

Delusional Thinking = Reasoning Deficit.

Delusions are fixed and false personal beliefs that are resistant to change in the light of conflicting evidence.

For example, when we are passionate about the superiority of our preferred political candidate, we tend to stick to the belief despite mounting counter-evidence/arguments.

In order to explain any delusion, we need to answer two questions. The first question is: What is it that brought the delusional idea to mind in the first place? The second question is: Why is this idea not rejected when so much evidence against its truth is available to the person?

System 1 - Effortless thought (intuitive) that produces quick and automatic answers to decision-making dilemmas.

System 2 - Slow, far more analytical, effortful, and conscious in its approach to the decision-making task.

Delusional reasoning can be described by an over-reliance on instinctive (rapid and non-reflective) thinking and an under-reliance on analytical thinking (deliberative, effortful). People with delusions are prone to making snap judgments and may form decisions quickly on the basis of little evidence.

System 2 in the intact mind is responsible for belief evaluation and formation. Belief evaluation involves System 2 inhibiting reflex reactions. Odd ideas occur to all of us but we prevent these from becoming odd beliefs by using our deliberative mind (System 2).

The tendency to fall back on System 1 thinking may stem from a depletion of cognitive resources brought on by distress, anxiety, and when we feel events are complex or beyond our control.

The Wagners were under severe stress and anxiety over having NO CONTROL - zero zilch - over BCI. "I want to smash Scheiderer's face in." George said this I believe out of the stress and anxiety of not being able to control him.

I believe the Wagners were relying on System 1 thinking and had delusions of grandeur, thus, they thought it possible to take revenge on authority figures and break each other out of jail.

 

[almond]

Regarding the night of the murders at Chris Sr's I still can't shake my idea of what happened. I believe I've been proven wrong on here too. I still see Chris Sr at Dana's with lil Chris and Hanna and the baby. Dana was at work and sr was at her house with his kids, being a father and grandfather. There was a newborn in the house and that requires some help for the mom. He got a call from Gary to come to the trailer. It was rather late in the evening and annoying but he still drove up there. I know I'm wrong but I have an active imagination. In fact, it was a dream I had the day we first heard of the massacre. Hopefully I'll get over it.

 

[Cool Cats]

Regarding the night of the murders at Chris Sr's I still can't shake my idea of what happened. I believe I've been proven wrong on here too. I still see Chris Sr at Dana's with lil Chris and Hanna and the baby. Dana was at work and sr was at her house with his kids, being a father and grandfather. There was a newborn in the house and that requires some help for the mom. He got a call from Gary to come to the trailer. It was rather late in the evening and annoying but he still drove up there. I know I'm wrong but I have an active imagination. In fact, it was a dream I had the day we first heard of the massacre. Hopefully I'll get over it.

I had a dream I was in a house listening to the Wagners talk. I panicked thinking I needed to get out before they see me. They were making plans for something. So weird. You never get over it completely.