GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

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altojack said:
Has the judge granted for Jake to attend Court on 22 December? Could he say no. I don't get what good it would be having Jake there as he can't be questioned by G4 defence team, can he?


Sorry if the above sounds stupid but I've still not got to grips with law over there. Here in UK it wouldn't be permitted until trial.
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The subpoena was issued and it appears it was served and returned . The judge is not the only one that can issue/order a subpoena. The defense team is the one that is having JW come into court to testify on G4 behalf. There may be some wrangling over if he can or not, but so far there is nothing filed in the court. There may be some arguments the day of the hearing over testimony if nothing is filed before. I believe they can call a witness to a hearing under Criminal Rule 17. If allowed, the defense and prosecution can question him.
 
Covert Operative said:
The subpoena was issued and it appears it was served and returned . The judge is not the only one that can issue/order a subpoena. The defense team is the one that is having JW come into court to testify on G4 behalf. There may be some wrangling over if he can or not, but so far there is nothing filed in the court. There may be some arguments the day of the hearing over testimony if nothing is filed before. I believe they can call a witness to a hearing under Criminal Rule 17. If allowed, the defense and prosecution can question him.
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Thank you. Just seems strange to me that they, G4s Defense can question a codefendant before trial. Doesn't take much to befuddle my brain these days.
 
Niner said:
Actually per my notes:
6/26/19 Charges were dismissed without prejudice.

You probably know this - but I'll post anyway. :)

A case dismissed with prejudice is over and done with, once and for all, and can't be brought back to court. case dismissed without prejudice means the opposite. It's not dismissed forever. Involuntary dismissals happen when the judge decides the case can't go forward because of a legal reason.

So - she CAN be charged if the prosecutor wants to.
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Yes, I know this, just going by what the newspaper said.
 
altojack said:
Thank you. Just seems strange to me that they, G4s Defense can question a codefendant before trial. Doesn't take much to befuddle my brain these days.
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It is strange to me also. Since JW proffer is sealed there may be some arguments over him testifying before he is allowed to do so, it may be successful. It would seem JW will probably say G4 was involved in some way so I am not sure exactly how it could help them. It would seem having JW come to court would be something they would need to try, to give G4 the defense that would be required of them.
 
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Covert Operative said:
Thanks for that recap. You brought up an important point. Do you remember if it was said in a hearing or where that G4 is the only DNA that was not found at the scenes? They mentioned in court that his was not found but did not mention the others DNA that I can remember. AC implied in the statement of facts that AW was not at the scenes. If her DNA was at the scenes then JW and AW lied and it would mean AC accepted that lie knowing AW was there because they had her DNA there. That would definitely be a contradiction and an important detail.
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I failed to add that link, my apologies.
No DNA link in George Wagner IV's Rhoden murder case
 
Covert Operative said:
Thanks for that recap. You brought up an important point. Do you remember if it was said in a hearing or where that G4 is the only DNA that was not found at the scenes? They mentioned in court that his was not found but did not mention the others DNA that I can remember. AC implied in the statement of facts that AW was not at the scenes. If her DNA was at the scenes then JW and AW lied and it would mean AC accepted that lie knowing AW was there because they had her DNA there. That would definitely be a contradiction and an important detail.
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Going strictly from memory, I think the only person who specifically asked about DNA from one of the four accused was one GW4's attorneys. I believe it was at GW4's arraignment, or one of the very early hearings after the arraignment, and he specifically asked the judge if the prosecution had DNA from GW4 from any of the murder scenes. AC's response to the question was no, they had no DNA from GW4. I believe there's a link to the arraignment hearing in the media and timeline thread.

I don't recall AW's attorneys ever making an inquiry about her DNA, nor do I recall JW's or BW's attorneys inquiring about their DNA. But, again, this is strictly from memory so I may be mistaken.

JMO

ETA: Oops! While I was typing my post, RSD posted the link to the video I was referring to. I didn't see that post until after I uploaded my own post!
 
IType said:
Going strictly from memory, I think the only person who specifically asked about DNA from one of the four accused was one GW4's attorneys. I believe it was at GW4's arraignment, or one of the very early hearings after the arraignment, and he specifically asked the judge if the prosecution had DNA from GW4 from any of the murder scenes. AC's response to the question was no, they had no DNA from GW4. I believe there's a link to the arraignment hearing in the media and timeline thread.

I don't recall AW's attorneys ever making an inquiry about her DNA, nor do I recall JW's or BW's attorneys inquiring about their DNA. But, again, this is strictly from memory so I may be mistaken.

JMO
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That is what I remember also, but I thought I could have missed some details that had been mentioned about BW, JW, AW DNA .
The other 3 may have never asked because they knew there is DNA at the scenes but that surely would contradict AW not being at the scenes if so.
I believe if any of them had substantial DNA at the scenes there would have been an arrest much sooner.
 
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Covert Operative said:
That is what I remember also, but I thought I could have missed some details that had been mentioned about BW, JW, AW DNA .
The other 3 may have never asked because they knew there is DNA at the scenes but that surely would contradict AW not being at the scenes if so.
I believe if any of them had substantial DNA at the scenes there would have been an arrest much sooner.
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Maybe AW's attorney never inquired because AW said she wasn't there, so there was no need to question it. Just a thought.

As for JW and BW, my best guess is their attorneys pulled the old "don't ask, don't tell" dodge.

All JMO
 
Covert Operative said:
Yes I have seen that article. Thank you for that. I was wondering if there is an article that states that AW, JW and BW DNA was at the scenes. That article was only about G4 case. If you do not remember its no big deal. I just thought I had missed some information. Thanks
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Don't have that on hand, I think that was kept close to vest, iirc it was kind of a big deal when it was let out that GW4's dna was not found at any of the crime scenes. It would not be as likely for him to have visited any of the homes previously either. JW's dna would be found if for no other reason than dropping S off or picking her up. GW3's could be found from previously being at CR1's. They didn't get all the shell casings either. DNA and fingerprints could be retrieved from them, and matched. JW and AW know this. GW4 knows his is not there. GW3, imo, just wants his day in court b/c he's got nothing to lose. LWOP if his son testifies honestly, or DP. If it's DP, it will be tied up in appeals for probably decades.
 
rsd1200 said:
Don't have that on hand, I think that was kept close to vest, iirc it was kind of a big deal when it was let out that GW4's dna was not found at any of the crime scenes. It would not be as likely for him to have visited any of the homes previously either. JW's dna would be found if for no other reason than dropping S off or picking her up. GW3's could be found from previously being at CR1's. They didn't get all the shell casings either. DNA and fingerprints could be retrieved from them, and matched. JW and AW know this. GW4 knows his is not there. GW3, imo, just wants his day in court b/c he's got nothing to lose. LWOP if his son testifies honestly, or DP. If it's DP, it will be tied up in appeals for probably decades.
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Gotcha, Thanks.
 
IType said:
Maybe AW's attorney never inquired because AW said she wasn't there, so there was no need to question it. Just a thought.

As for JW and BW, my best guess is their attorneys pulled the old "don't ask, don't tell" dodge.

All JMO
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Yes that is what I was wondering. Her post said that G4 was the only one with no DNA at the scene which is what caught my eye and why I asked about it. I was trying to figure out how AW had DNA at the scene that tied her to the murders.
 
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Interesting all 4 Wagners - including George - have DNA listed in their June 26, 2019 Supplemental Discoveries.

It came out at George's Bond Hearing that there were no fingerprints or DNA for him but evidently, just like with the knife, this case does show enough DNA to be in Discovery.

Pike County Common Pleas Court
  • 2018CR000156 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, ANGELA JO
  • 2018CR000154 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, EDWARD JACOB
  • 2018CR000157 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON
 

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Cool Cats said:
Interesting all 4 Wagners - including George - have DNA listed in their June 26, 2019 Supplemental Discoveries.

It came out at George's Bond Hearing that there were no fingerprints or DNA for him but evidently, just like with the knife, this case does show enough DNA to be in Discovery.

Pike County Common Pleas Court
  • 2018CR000156 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, ANGELA JO
  • 2018CR000154 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, EDWARD JACOB
  • 2018CR000157 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON
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I would imagine they got samples and tested their DNA. I believe that would be a standard procedure in a murder case.
 
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Covert Operative said:
I would imagine they took and tested their DNA. I believe that would be a standard procedure in a murder case.
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Not taken after arrests. From May 18, 2017. From searches.

May 12, 2017---LE conducts searches on the Peterson Road property and Flying W Farms and a car lot where the Wagner's were storing trailers.
May 13, 2017---Angela audio interview
May 16, 2017---Angela audio interview
May 17, 2017--- Jake audio interview

May 18, 2017---DNA LAB

May 21, 2017---Angela, Gw3, and GW4 all give audio interviews. Angela also gives a partial video interview.
 
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Cool Cats said:
Not taken after arrests. From May 18, 2017. From searches.
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I know what the dates are. That was right around the time they moved. They also could have retrieved items that belonged to each of them and tested them for DNA. I bet they were suspects long before they were announced as persons of interest.
 
Cool Cats said:
Interesting all 4 Wagners - including George - have DNA listed in their June 26, 2019 Supplemental Discoveries.

It came out at George's Bond Hearing that there were no fingerprints or DNA for him but evidently, just like with the knife, this case does show enough DNA to be in Discovery.

Pike County Common Pleas Court
  • 2018CR000156 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, ANGELA JO
  • 2018CR000154 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, EDWARD JACOB
  • 2018CR000157 STATE OF OHIO -vs- WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON
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The discoveries are the same for each , could that be because they each were charged the same crimes before the plea deals ?
 
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