OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #71

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This is just my opinion, but there are links I am too tired to look up right now, since I was up for a few hours today. Anyway most of you have followed the hearings and read the motions and they have been posted here many times before. So JMO.

BBM

Jake put a newborn to nurse from the dead mother probably sealed George's fate.

You have more confidence than I do then. Unfortunately, as far as murder goes you are not your brother's keeper, so what Jake admits he did cannot be transferred to George and you can be certain the jury is not going to hold George accountable for Jake's admitted actions. According to Jake, George can't even testify to what Jake did since he wasn't there to see it.

We have lumped this case as the W4 for so many years it's hard to let it go and consider only the evidence that pertains to George.

But remember George is the only one on trial here. Forget Jake and Angie. They have pled guilty and been sentenced already. Jake is a sick pedophile abuser who after AC's opening, I am not convinced he did not act alone in this with Angie's help planning it. Angie is an enabler and abuser and evidently spies on her son's ex's and reports back to them.

Now we need to focus on the evidence against just George. This is a man on trial for his life. The jury owes him that. And you can bet they will only be focused on what George did and only the evidence against George. So far nothing. All the state admits it has is a size 10 1/2 or size 11 bloody shoe print. One at Chris's and one at Dana's I think. The first and last place a crime took place.

Have to listen to that opening again but if AC said George was inside Frankies then where is the bloody shoe print from there? Keep in mind people the only crime scene with blood on the floor to step in was Chris's. The others were shot in bed and not moved from where they were shot. Jake admits he shot Frankie and Hazel while George was not in the bedroom. Jake admits he shot Chris Jr, Hannah and Dana. Jake says George was guarding the door to Chris Jr's bedroom but did not shoot him and did not enter the bedroom so no blood to step in there either. Jake says Billy shot Kenny while George was up the highway as look out. No blood to step in there either.

I did an experiment today. I have nothing else to do right now so I had my oldest GS go to Walmart and buy a pair of size 10 1/2 and size 11 athletic shoes and a bottle of ketchup. When he got back I told him to smear that ketchup all over my varnished wood floor. Then I told him to put on the left shoe of the 10 1/2 and step in the ketchup. I then had him to hop over to the carpet and step down on it. Repeated with the left side size 11. Then I told him to wait until it dried most of the way and measure both. He did so with a jewelry tool I use to measure width of jewelry which has MM's instead of inches. They were 1/1008 mm off. Then I made him clean it all up. lol Not a precise experiment but gives you an idea. I wish I could ask hubby who worked homicide crime scenes how accurate my experiment is but that is not possible right now. Point is that is some very thin evidence. Try it yourself and see. Costs under 25.00 to do it.

As far as George going with Angie and Jake to buy a vehicle, that's not evidence and is a non starter for me. I have went with people to buy a vehicle and I have not killed anyone.

The two vehicles with one following close behind the other could have been Jake and Angie who have confessed to this crime.

Here's hoping the state has more, like video surveillance from one of those houses that captured a clear picture of George in one of those vehicles because they sure can't place him inside the crime scenes. Or surveillance from Chris or Kenny's outside cameras placing him at the scenes. The state has admitted they do not have George's DNA at any of the crime scenes. No forensics on George at all.

No wonder Nash smiled every time AC said "they" or them". I saw him look at George and smirk while the male EMT was testifying. The male EMT made no mention of a bloody foot print by Chris Jr's bedroom and Junk did not ask him to point any out on the crime scene photos like he did with the pacifier.


BTW I have not seen anywhere that there were any eye witnesses to this crime unless you are talking about Jake who we know is a liar and who none of us trust? Or Billy who has not said a word? Angie, according to her and Jake was home in bed asleep so could not have seen a thing.

At this point after hearing all the motions and watching all the hearings in George's case, just not seeing it folks.

I am hoping and praying but not sure my hopes and prayers are going to get a conviction on George.


JMO
I wholeheartedly agree the prosecution must seal the deal with hard evidence. We have seen too many times guilty folks walking free. For me, the opening was too detailed, instead of a simple to follow outline. No need to get into the weeds but im just a simply layman. We are in the infancy of the trial. I dont have a clue about any of the evidence other than whats been put out there. I get JWs and AWs testimony alone might not be enough but if the state has audio or physical evidence to corroborate their statements then who knows. This isnt a Los Angeles or Orlando jury. They wont be dazzled by buffoonery from the defense. Jmo
 
LOL ya'll can minimize his MJ OP all you want it doesn't make it true. <modsnip> He was entertaining a very lucrative deal with BW so obviously it wasn't just sick old people he was peddling to. He was making the big deals, I'm sorry ya'll mad, but that's my opinion.
I agree with you. In every single article or interview, the marijuana operation is described as commercial, extensive, massive, and growing in many buildings on the properties. This is a cash business. What happened to all the cash? Did the Wagners take the cash? This is money that can't be deposited into a bank account, but would be hidden somewhere on the property. With a large scale operation, they would be bringing in tens of thousands of dollars, if not hundreds of thousands.

So again I ask, what happened to the cash?

oops... imo...of course.
 
I agree with you. In every single article or interview, the marijuana operation is described as commercial, extensive, massive, and growing in many buildings on the properties. This is a cash business. What happened to all the cash? Did the Wagners take the cash? This is money that can't be deposited into a bank account, but would be hidden somewhere on the property. With a large scale operation, they would be bringing in tens of thousands of dollars, if not hundreds of thousands.

So again I ask, what happened to the cash?

oops... imo...of course.
I'd say off the top of my head, of course they took the cash...if they knew where it was stashed, they had CRSR's keys.
 
I think there was one active duty Pike Co deputy who testified via video today. Another was former Piketon PD who testified audio only.
It will be interesting to see how many BCI agents testify with camera and audio.

Even though BCI is behind on providing body-worn cameras, and Ohio still has not banned qualified immunity, I'm surprised that LE personnel have not formally adopted a standard given the court gives every witness the option of their court testimony audio recorded only, filmed, and photographed, or to opt-out. Seems they aren't even willing to comment on the subject.


 
JMO
Proceeds from a few MJ sales can absolutely be deposited in a safety deposit box at a bank. NO IRS reporting, no bank oversight other than accessing their vault.

No one outside of law enforcement knows the extent of the grow because nothing has been disclosed. No pictures, no nothing. Just someone's opinion. If there is any evidence whatsoever there was money in those rotted mobile homes i wanna see it. These same rumors were passed around
furiously on a now closed website. Unless there is proof otherwise this is nothing but hyperbole and folklore based off a perceived norm. IMO

MJ is cheaper than cigarettes. It is hardly the 70s cash cow it used to be.
 
I’m unfamiliar with this case so I’ll just drop theve here:





 
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Cheech and chong would have a field day with the flood of MJ. Up in smoke! Supply and demand. There is more supply in Seo than demand. The demand was at the time of the murders opoids and soon after heroine. Pot was and is candy or brownies!!! What it isnt is a motive to murder a bloodline. Absurd therories in my opinion.
 
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This is my opinion based on facts!

1. A family of 4 conspired to murder an entire bloodline of 8. Wagners vs Rhoden/gilley

2. 2 of the 4 wagner family members pled quilty

3. GWIv is claiming the Sgt Schultz defense, i know nothing!

4. The wags are a clan type stereotypical Appalachian family. They are nothing more than cold blooded murderers.

5. 2 of the 8 were nursing mothers and at least one positioned the deceased mother and child so the child could nurse.

6. Some are in the weeds wanting to blame it on a MJ grow even though all the evidence points toward a custody battle over a 3 yr old
 
Cheech and chong would have a field day with the flood of MJ. Up in smoke! Supply and demand. There is more supply in Seo than demand. The demand was at the time of the murders opoids and soon after heroine. Pot was and is candy or brownies!!! What it isnt is a motive to murder a bloodline. Absurd therories in my opinion.
Agree. Here’s a quote from Deputy Ball in the link to Springfield-News Sun from Imstilla grandma’s post above

“He testified that, while checking Chris Sr.’s property, he discovered an “extensive” marijuana grow operation in a garage, an out building and a semi trailer. Ball said marijuana grow operations aren’t unusual to come across in Pike County and that he’d seen bigger than the operation at Chris Sr.’s home.”

It wasn’t that big an operation. It wasn’t the reason for the murders. it’s a side issue, a distraction. JMO
 
Agree. Here’s a quote from Deputy Ball in the link to Springfield-News Sun from Imstilla grandma’s post above

“He testified that, while checking Chris Sr.’s property, he discovered an “extensive” marijuana grow operation in a garage, an out building and a semi trailer. Ball said marijuana grow operations aren’t unusual to come across in Pike County and that he’d seen bigger than the operation at Chris Sr.’s home.”

It wasn’t that big an operation. It wasn’t the reason for the murders. it’s a side issue, a distraction. JMO
But the.distractors.wanna make it something it isnt/wasnt. Why? This has been going on since 2016. The subtle victim blaming is infuriating. I didnt.know the Rs but I know folks intimately involved with them and their lifestyle.

The mj business is a red herring. Unless you have evidence otherwise the rabbit dog ur hunting with needs training. These distractors have been around since the murders. I will no longer.entertain their nonsense. They are on this site for a reason. They came out of the woodwork like roaches on a Sat night. Predictable. These distractions cant.produce because they will be exposed.

Jmo
 
Even though BCI is behind on providing body-worn cameras, and Ohio still has not banned qualified immunity, I'm surprised that LE personnel have not formally adopted a standard given the court gives every witness the option of their court testimony audio recorded only, filmed, and photographed, or to opt-out. Seems they aren't even willing to comment on the subject.



Ohio is different, I'll say. They do what they want, there's not a lot of public accountability or transparency. Have lived here 20+ years. You really notice it if you're not native to the state. It's probably similar for natives who have spent time living elsewhere.

Like many states, though, local LE in more remote/rural areas follow their own rules on these things with only light oversight. This area (Appalachian Ohio) has also struggled for quite some time with economic upheaval and a terrible time with the opioid crisis.

We'll see if the trend continues with BCI (Ohio's Bureau of Criminal Investigation). BCI agents have already testified in pre-trial hearings, they oversaw most of the investigation.
 
This is just my opinion, but there are links I am too tired to look up right now, since I was up for a few hours today. Anyway most of you have followed the hearings and read the motions and they have been posted here many times before. So JMO.

BBM

Jake put a newborn to nurse from the dead mother probably sealed George's fate.

You have more confidence than I do then. Unfortunately, as far as murder goes you are not your brother's keeper, so what Jake admits he did cannot be transferred to George and you can be certain the jury is not going to hold George accountable for Jake's admitted actions. According to Jake, George can't even testify to what Jake did since he wasn't there to see it.

We have lumped this case as the W4 for so many years it's hard to let it go and consider only the evidence that pertains to George.

But remember George is the only one on trial here. Forget Jake and Angie. They have pled guilty and been sentenced already. Jake is a sick pedophile abuser who after AC's opening, I am not convinced he did not act alone in this with Angie's help planning it. Angie is an enabler and abuser and evidently spies on her son's ex's and reports back to them.

Now we need to focus on the evidence against just George. This is a man on trial for his life. The jury owes him that. And you can bet they will only be focused on what George did and only the evidence against George. So far nothing. All the state admits it has is a size 10 1/2 or size 11 bloody shoe print. One at Chris's and one at Dana's I think. The first and last place a crime took place.

Have to listen to that opening again but if AC said George was inside Frankies then where is the bloody shoe print from there? Keep in mind people the only crime scene with blood on the floor to step in was Chris's. The others were shot in bed and not moved from where they were shot. Jake admits he shot Frankie and Hazel while George was not in the bedroom. Jake admits he shot Chris Jr, Hannah and Dana. Jake says George was guarding the door to Chris Jr's bedroom but did not shoot him and did not enter the bedroom so no blood to step in there either. Jake says Billy shot Kenny while George was up the highway as look out. No blood to step in there either.

I did an experiment today. I have nothing else to do right now so I had my oldest GS go to Walmart and buy a pair of size 10 1/2 and size 11 athletic shoes and a bottle of ketchup. When he got back I told him to smear that ketchup all over my varnished wood floor. Then I told him to put on the left shoe of the 10 1/2 and step in the ketchup. I then had him to hop over to the carpet and step down on it. Repeated with the left side size 11. Then I told him to wait until it dried most of the way and measure both. He did so with a jewelry tool I use to measure width of jewelry which has MM's instead of inches. They were 1/1008 mm off. Then I made him clean it all up. lol Not a precise experiment but gives you an idea. I wish I could ask hubby who worked homicide crime scenes how accurate my experiment is but that is not possible right now. Point is that is some very thin evidence. Try it yourself and see. Costs under 25.00 to do it.

As far as George going with Angie and Jake to buy a vehicle, that's not evidence and is a non starter for me. I have went with people to buy a vehicle and I have not killed anyone.

The two vehicles with one following close behind the other could have been Jake and Angie who have confessed to this crime.

Here's hoping the state has more, like video surveillance from one of those houses that captured a clear picture of George in one of those vehicles because they sure can't place him inside the crime scenes. Or surveillance from Chris or Kenny's outside cameras placing him at the scenes. The state has admitted they do not have George's DNA at any of the crime scenes. No forensics on George at all.

No wonder Nash smiled every time AC said "they" or them". I saw him look at George and smirk while the male EMT was testifying. The male EMT made no mention of a bloody foot print by Chris Jr's bedroom and Junk did not ask him to point any out on the crime scene photos like he did with the pacifier.


BTW I have not seen anywhere that there were any eye witnesses to this crime unless you are talking about Jake who we know is a liar and who none of us trust? Or Billy who has not said a word? Angie, according to her and Jake was home in bed asleep so could not have seen a thing.

At this point after hearing all the motions and watching all the hearings in George's case, just not seeing it folks.

I am hoping and praying but not sure my hopes and prayers are going to get a conviction on George.


JMO
I do understand your concerns, but my thoughts are that the prosecution believes George's own words will condemn him in terms of showing his level of planning, involvement and the cover-up. We haven't yet heard what he had to say in that family meeting/meetings but iirc, it has been said that he was very vocal. I'm quite anxious for that to come out. JMO
 
I wholeheartedly agree the prosecution must seal the deal with hard evidence. We have seen too many times guilty folks walking free. For me, the opening was too detailed, instead of a simple to follow outline. No need to get into the weeds but im just a simply layman. We are in the infancy of the trial. I dont have a clue about any of the evidence other than whats been put out there. I get JWs and AWs testimony alone might not be enough but if the state has audio or physical evidence to corroborate their statements then who knows. This isnt a Los Angeles or Orlando jury. They wont be dazzled by buffoonery from the defense. Jmo
"I get JWs and AWs testimony alone might not be enough but if the state has audio or physical evidence to corroborate their statements then who knows. Jmo"

JMO, I think the state does have this, particularly audio, in George's own words. I'm am most anxious to hear that.
 
MO
There has to be a reason for LE opting out.
It could be a different reason for each LE, but there has to be a reason.
MO
i think its just the way the issue was presented to them. if your leo being cross examined by an attorney like g4s it could could become adversarial. we know cops dont like being filmed already......

i doubt many would have requested this on their own idea. but when u give someone the option up front and a choice to avoid a potentially embarrasing situation on tv of course they will say opt out. its a domino effect once one cop opts out the rest feel they should do. it should not be allowed. theyre actually being paid for the court appearance!! and it feeds into our cover up conspiracy conversation which idiots continue to bring up.

theres no danger element here for the leo like their could be for the witnesses. as far as JW and AW "privacy" that continues to boggle my mind. i really think deering has a political connection to fw/her supporters in the county. ive gone into detail on this before as far as farm subsidy fraud etc. the defference shown to fw, who remember was initially indicted, is ridiculous .
 
So what are y'alls thoughts on: GW was not supposed to go but did

Would just 2 people be able (or plan) to do all that killing at different places?

What would his assignment have been if not to kill?
i feel it its a complete fabrication. the plan as described he was an integral part of- he was supposed to fire the first shot!! they modified the truck that g4 obtained to fit jake and george in the false bottoms. he bought a night scope and a mask. bout the 40 glock for billy. im thinking hes also the one who figured out the cell phone jammers because he named his kid after a character in world of warcraft, so he must be technically proficient. the wagners were terrified of crsr, they were too scared to try and kill him in his sleep! pure intimidation especially after the whooping he put on billy and took his gun. no way jake and billy would have went alone. g4 was the deciding factor in my opinion, crsr may have survived against jake and billy alone.
 
REFRESHER ON THE COURTS RESPONSE TO MOTION FOR MEDIA ACCESS AND SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF MOTION DATED 9/9/22:

COVERAGE OF WITNESSES:


The Court's denial of permitting Media to record witnesses that have "opted out" of being video recorded or photographed, and specifically permit the recording of testimony by defendants AW and JW [presumably, even if they object], denial by the Court was a matter of law pursuant to Sup R. 12(C):

Ohio Supreme Court R. 12(C) is clear that the Court may not permit the filming, videoing, recording, or making of photographs of any victim or witness who objects.

In further clarification, the Ohio Supreme Court stated "It seems clear that a defendant is a "witness" when he is testifying."

The Court further provided that a gag order was never issued here nor is this a case in which proceedings were closed to the media. The Court has reserved a section inside the courtroom for MEDIA ONLY to facilitate media informing the public.

From the decison:


View attachment 366241
Another thank you for this information.

I watched (what I think was) a local (or nearby) news clip via YouTube and while the reporters were discussing witness the opt outs, they never mentioned this. They only mentioned the judges ruling. They also mentioned reporters will "have to report the old fashioned way, taking notes with pen and paper". The result, I think, is we're seeing that kind of reporting is a dying craft.

Thanks again.
 
Ohio is different, I'll say. They do what they want, there's not a lot of public accountability or transparency. Have lived here 20+ years. You really notice it if you're not native to the state. It's probably similar for natives who have spent time living elsewhere.

Like many states, though, local LE in more remote/rural areas follow their own rules on these things with only light oversight. This area (Appalachian Ohio) has also struggled for quite some time with economic upheaval and a terrible time with the opioid crisis.

We'll see if the trend continues with BCI (Ohio's Bureau of Criminal Investigation). BCI agents have already testified in pre-trial hearings, they oversaw most of the investigation.
Precisely!! The pill mills and wholesale heroin distributors were and are the cash cows. No one cares and.no one has the resources to worry about MJ, growers and distributors, IMO. Dime A Dozen!!
 
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