OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

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the most interesting testimony of the whole trial has been today for me, JW obsession with SW possibly being SA answers so many questions for me as to how easy he found killing HR SW mother and her family, he said he was consumed by these thoughts, and I have known people who have suffering horrendously with intrusive thoughts, to the extent they have been so debilitating that they have affected their whole life,

I think JW under the malign (I love to use that word when discussing AW) influence of AW grew up with a warped view of women and sex, IMO you were either *advertiser censored* or Madonna, AW saw herself as a Madonna obviously, he chose 2 inexperienced girls/women as his sexual partners, once SW was born AW was triggered due to her SA in the military and possibly SA as a child, they were surrounded by girls and women who had either been raped or had been sexually abused, and they both became obsessed that SW was also going to be a victim, they fed off each other with this obsession, JW compulsively had thoughts that she was going to be SA and only he could protect her,

IMO HR fate was sealed once she left JW and took her daughter away, he and AW from then on IMO became so fixated on protecting SW that killing 8 people didn't seem an extraordinary thing to do, anything would be done to protect SW and gain control of her so that only AW or JW would ever be allowed to look after her again,
 
joe jones said:
the most interesting testimony of the whole trial has been today for me, JW obsession with SW possibly being SA answers so many questions for me as to how easy he found killing HR SW mother and her family, he said he was consumed by these thoughts, and I have known people who have suffering horrendously with intrusive thoughts, to the extent they have been so debilitating that they have affected their whole life,

I think JW under the malign (I love to use that word when discussing AW) influence of AW grew up with a warped view of women and sex, IMO you were either *advertiser censored* or Madonna, AW saw herself as a Madonna obviously, he chose 2 inexperienced girls/women as his sexual partners, once SW was born AW was triggered due to her SA in the military and possibly SA as a child, they were surrounded by girls and women who had either been raped or had been sexually abused, and they both became obsessed that SW was also going to be a victim, they fed off each other with this obsession, JW compulsively had thoughts that she was going to be SA and only he could protect her,

IMO HR fate was sealed once she left JW and took her daughter away, he and AW from then on IMO became so fixated on protecting SW that killing 8 people didn't seem an extraordinary thing to do, anything would be done to protect SW and gain control of her so that only AW or JW would ever be allowed to look after her again,
Click to expand...
Imagine if they all would have used that fear in a positive way. If they fought to change legislation or make it harder for predators to be around children. People with this much passion about a topic usually change the world for the better.. but instead we have this massacre.

It is a real concern, but it seems they felt every single person was suspect for molesting or touching or poisoning. I mean look at how they reacted to BCI at the border. They must have allowed Tabatha to be there and they gave the kids sleepy kool aid medicine.. WHAT? Seems everyone is out to get them and poison or molest their kids/grandchildren. WHY??

It's so far beyond a normal (as in how most parents would vet friends and places a child can go) concern. I think checking sex offender registries, talking to the parents of friends, not allowing sleepovers unless they know a family well, talking to the children about how they are allowed to not hug others or not be forced to be around someone they are uneasy about (age appropriate discussions of course). They just seemed to think every person other than the 4 of them and the grandmothers were somehow wanting to molest the kids. Either that was a literal fear they had or it was a way the realized they could control every detail of the kids lives by claiming that was happening. I can't figure out which it is. It's as if they felt Hannah May was going to just allow it to happen or again it was their claim so they could justify killing them all.

I still think Billy had other motives.
 
I'll add to my last thought that this motive is so bizarre that I think this is why we had to really hear all the details about people closer to this family knowing how things were. How they were together as a unit, how they all protected the kids, how the past accusations over poisoning and touching the kids happened, what the fallout of those accusations were.. this family was serious about these kids and any perceived by them (key words here) infraction having to do with the kids. EXTREME overreaction each time. I mean they went to the ER to test the kids for drugs after BCI was with them, they chased Tabatha out by Angela going to get her gun, Beth was so scared she went into Walmart and went out the back to a car. It just think it shows that whatever they were doing in that home, scared the crap out of those that left and the only person that stood up to them was Hannah May and her family is gone now. If we didn't hear the other stories, it would be harder to believe 8 people died because a child could possibly be molested at some point in the future.
 
joe jones said:
the most interesting testimony of the whole trial has been today for me, JW obsession with SW possibly being SA answers so many questions for me as to how easy he found killing HR SW mother and her family, he said he was consumed by these thoughts, and I have known people who have suffering horrendously with intrusive thoughts, to the extent they have been so debilitating that they have affected their whole life,

I think JW under the malign (I love to use that word when discussing AW) influence of AW grew up with a warped view of women and sex, IMO you were either *advertiser censored* or Madonna, AW saw herself as a Madonna obviously, he chose 2 inexperienced girls/women as his sexual partners, once SW was born AW was triggered due to her SA in the military and possibly SA as a child, they were surrounded by girls and women who had either been raped or had been sexually abused, and they both became obsessed that SW was also going to be a victim, they fed off each other with this obsession, JW compulsively had thoughts that she was going to be SA and only he could protect her,

IMO HR fate was sealed once she left JW and took her daughter away, he and AW from then on IMO became so fixated on protecting SW that killing 8 people didn't seem an extraordinary thing to do, anything would be done to protect SW and gain control of her so that only AW or JW would ever be allowed to look after her again,
Click to expand...

I think Jake was a bit OCD when it came to his daughter. I doubt there was any risk of SA, I think he gave that as an excuse to justify his obsession with keeping control of her. Its not unusual in some parents who can't deal with a divorce or split. The children become the proxy and the weapon in one parent's fight to punish the other or make them come back. It's sad, but not unusual.

Agree about Jake's perception of women in the Madonna/"Girl" dichotomy.

Having the second child with another young man and starting a new relationship is always trouble for violent, abusive ex-partners/husbands. In DV, it's a very dangerous period, as this turned out to be. The big difference here is that Jake talked his family into helping him do it. They killed other family members, in a way, to cover up the motive and get revenge for other perceived injustices, jealousies, etc.

<modsnip: no indication of drug use>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
justtrish said:
I'll add to my last thought that this motive is so bizarre that I think this is why we had to really hear all the details about people closer to this family knowing how things were. How they were together as a unit, how they all protected the kids, how the past accusations over poisoning and touching the kids happened, what the fallout of those accusations were.. this family was serious about these kids and any perceived by them (key words here) infraction having to do with the kids. EXTREME overreaction each time. I mean they went to the ER to test the kids for drugs after BCI was with them, they chased Tabatha out by Angela going to get her gun, Beth was so scared she went into Walmart and went out the back to a car. It just think it shows that whatever they were doing in that home, scared the crap out of those that left and the only person that stood up to them was Hannah May and her family is gone now. If we didn't hear the other stories, it would be harder to believe 8 people died because a child could possibly be molested at some point in the future.
Click to expand...

Well said!

And thanks Arielalane for posting those!
 
justtrish said:
Imagine if they all would have used that fear in a positive way. If they fought to change legislation or make it harder for predators to be around children. People with this much passion about a topic usually change the world for the better.. but instead we have this massacre.

It is a real concern, but it seems they felt every single person was suspect for molesting or touching or poisoning. I mean look at how they reacted to BCI at the border. They must have allowed Tabatha to be there and they gave the kids sleepy kool aid medicine.. WHAT? Seems everyone is out to get them and poison or molest their kids/grandchildren. WHY??

It's so far beyond a normal (as in how most parents would vet friends and places a child can go) concern. I think checking sex offender registries, talking to the parents of friends, not allowing sleepovers unless they know a family well, talking to the children about how they are allowed to not hug others or not be forced to be around someone they are uneasy about (age appropriate discussions of course). They just seemed to think every person other than the 4 of them and the grandmothers were somehow wanting to molest the kids. Either that was a literal fear they had or it was a way the realized they could control every detail of the kids lives by claiming that was happening. I can't figure out which it is. It's as if they felt Hannah May was going to just allow it to happen or again it was their claim so they could justify killing them all.

I still think Billy had other motives.
Click to expand...
I think Jake is just a typical domestic abuser who wanted to control the mother of his child, and how wanted to follow his mother's directives to have Sophia under Wagner control. None of the people he thinks might molest Sophia have any history of molestation. And of course, Hanna was living with her mother at the time of the murder and there were no boyfriends living there. I'm quite sure the Wagners were weird on the subject of molestation but given the grooming that went on with Hanna and Tabitha, and the weirdness of Angela kicking George's wife out of their bedroom and sleeping with the grandkids, that comes across to me at least as a projection of their own tendencies onto Hanna.

I agree that Billy--and maybe George--has other motives.
 
Well now we know why BCI has so many recordings (Bond Hearing) of George making fun of Jake's religion. According to trial testimony Jake was telling George all the time that George was going to hell.

Then Jake sees that his wife looked up witches on her phone and he thinks negatively of her for that, as if she is into that or something.

But it is fine to murder 8 people. Never heard of this type of religion.

I keep wondering if the jury will find Jake believable or think he is just a liar. It seems like the jury will need to believe Jake to convict George.
 
justtrish said:
Imagine if they all would have used that fear in a positive way. If they fought to change legislation or make it harder for predators to be around children. People with this much passion about a topic usually change the world for the better.. but instead we have this massacre.

It is a real concern, but it seems they felt every single person was suspect for molesting or touching or poisoning. I mean look at how they reacted to BCI at the border. They must have allowed Tabatha to be there and they gave the kids sleepy kool aid medicine.. WHAT? Seems everyone is out to get them and poison or molest their kids/grandchildren. WHY??

It's so far beyond a normal (as in how most parents would vet friends and places a child can go) concern. I think checking sex offender registries, talking to the parents of friends, not allowing sleepovers unless they know a family well, talking to the children about how they are allowed to not hug others or not be forced to be around someone they are uneasy about (age appropriate discussions of course). They just seemed to think every person other than the 4 of them and the grandmothers were somehow wanting to molest the kids. Either that was a literal fear they had or it was a way the realized they could control every detail of the kids lives by claiming that was happening. I can't figure out which it is. It's as if they felt Hannah May was going to just allow it to happen or again it was their claim so they could justify killing them all.

I still think Billy had other motives.
Click to expand...

So very true.

Years ago I had a summer internship in a small rural community and I'll never forget my neighbor and the way she spoke to her grandchildren whom she cared for.

Two granddaughters about the ages 3 and 5 would get dropped off at the curb and the very first question she would lead with was "why are you late... was somebody touching your privates, tell grandma if that's why you are late..."

This happened every time that I witnessed their arrival and doubt it was different when I wasn't there. IMO, it was just a matter of when one or both would say YES, that's why we are late!

IMO, this is also true of Sophia telling Jake that EA molested her (and later recanted)-- this killer clan conditioned this child with such thoughts since birth. MOO
 
The post I made earlier was just FYI, not gospel or carved in stone. I myself just ran across PL&A and thought I'd throw that out there. I made no claims and didn't expect it to be dissected. I just saw Anjanette Levy on L&C describe today in court and she says she "is taking notes constantly." Basically that is what Big E does, he takes notes while in the courtroom. I have no idea who he is or what his background is but Levy uses him too when she can't be there herself.
 
So looks like re direct lasted about 1 hour 15 minutes, then AC sat down and defense guy is it Parker? Walks up to Jake and is talking with his hands and pointing everywhere for about 1 minute then sits back down, then AC stands up and must be asking a few things because it's about 1 minute and then they are done for the day. I would love to know what those last questions were.
 
and a few interesting bits from JW, he says BW asked him to shoot him after he came out of CRsr, and he said CRsr had a why expression on his face,

and JW really doesn't like his daddy, he was asking for the moon on a stick with some of his requests when he made his proffer, but one thing he did ask was the charges to be dropped against AW and GW but not BW,
 
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