OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

[ColMustard]

Jmo didn’t Jake say he was under cr truck when he fired first shot? Look up picture of the scene that morning. Jmo

IMO

That's right, so the silver Ford was Chris Sr's.

Haven't looked but I don't think the trajectories match up with the silver truck over in the driveway. moo

Edit: Or was Jake talking about the Chevy tow truck? Still doesn't line up.

 

[Myland]

I looked at other one too, but neither line up with gun expert. Jmo or the shot in door jam. Jmo and if George under murder truck what was he aiming at?

 

[Myland]

Does anyone remember when it was Jake testified to his location when he shot c? I know I heard it but can not find it. Jmo

 

[StrangeOne]

the most interesting testimony of the whole trial has been today for me, JW obsession with SW possibly being SA answers so many questions for me as to how easy he found killing HR SW mother and her family, he said he was consumed by these thoughts, and I have known people who have suffering horrendously with intrusive thoughts, to the extent they have been so debilitating that they have affected their whole life,

I think JW under the malign (I love to use that word when discussing AW) influence of AW grew up with a warped view of women and sex, IMO you were either *advertiser censored* or Madonna, AW saw herself as a Madonna obviously, he chose 2 inexperienced girls/women as his sexual partners, once SW was born AW was triggered due to her SA in the military and possibly SA as a child, they were surrounded by girls and women who had either been raped or had been sexually abused, and they both became obsessed that SW was also going to be a victim, they fed off each other with this obsession, JW compulsively had thoughts that she was going to be SA and only he could protect her,

IMO HR fate was sealed once she left JW and took her daughter away, he and AW from then on IMO became so fixated on protecting SW that killing 8 people didn't seem an extraordinary thing to do, anything would be done to protect SW and gain control of her so that only AW or JW would ever be allowed to look after her again,

JMO JW has sex with a child. She wasn't even 16 years old. His mother was also fixated on GW and JW sex life. It makes me wonder if there isn't something else going on there.

 

[Cool Cats]

Could be there were not matching shoes in GWIII’s size…

She bought sizes they didn't wear, but still, even then, she may not have found an "off" size to fit him. He is extremely tall and could have a shoe size that is so large it is hard to find his size in general. I have a son with such a large shoe size that many stores don't even have his size in the type of shoe he is looking for.

Billy Height 6'06"

 

[pittsburghgirl]

She bought sizes they didn't wear, but still, even then, she may not have found an "off" size to fit him. He is extremely tall and could have a shoe size that is so large it is hard to find his size in general. I have a son with such a large shoe size that many stores don't even have his size in the type of shoe he is looking for.

Billy Height 6'06"

I looked up average shoe size for men. 6'3" and taller--size 13-20. Yikes.

 

[Chingaling]

I viewed the 10 min video using Win-10/Chrome laptop and did not have any problems. That said -- you've not missed anything! The audio is bad-- what sounds like a creaking chair and paper shuffling with close caption text playing out on the screen. JMO

Thanks

 

[Cool Cats]

Does anyone remember when it was Jake testified to his location when he shot c? I know I heard it but can not find it. Jmo

During his Monday, October 24th testimony.

MSN

WAVERLY, Ohio (WXIX) - Jake Wagner testified for several hours Monday against his own brother as George Wagner IV’s murder trial in the Pike County massacre enters its seventh week.

Prosecutors showed Jake Wagner a picture of the front of Chris Rhoden Sr.’s trailer, the front porch. They asked him to point to where Chris Sr. was standing when Jake shot him.

Jake Wagner pointed to the right portion of the front door.

He testified that his father went into the trailer where Chris Rhoden Sr. was with his cousin, Gary Rhoden, and then Jake Wagner heard two gunshots.

 

[justtrish]

Jmo didn’t Jake say he was under cr truck when he fired first shot? Look up picture of the scene that morning. Jmo

Sorry, so many more posts than usual so hard to go back and find what I want.

I think there is some confusion, if not, please disregard.

Jake's plea deal is that if he testifies to the prosecution's satisfaction then all 4 Wagners get the DP removed. All 4 Wagners were offered this deal.

So if Jake testifies to the prosecution's satisfaction the prosecution will discuss removing George's Death Penalty Specifications. It was recently mentioned in court by the prosecution that they want this discussion done privately.

It doesn't matter that George and Billy did not take this plea offer, doesn't matter that they are going to trial. If Jake fulfills his plea agreement then the DP will be removed for both George and Billy. Period.

I got the impression from some past posts that because George and Billy did not take the plea agreement, that if they are found guilty they could get the DP. Nope. The most Deering could give George is LWOP if he is found guilty of murder, same with Billy.

We have no idea if George or Billy could have gotten the plea deal Angela got. I do not think they could have gotten the plea Angie got because I believe - that the prosecution believes - that the 3 men were at the victim's homes that night. Angela got the 30 year deal - no parole no early release - only because the prosecution believes she stayed home on the night of the murders, did not go to any of the the victims's homes that night.

I even remember a recent post stating that Angie posted something (or used the phone) from Peterson Rd that night, just to make it look like they were all home that night. Again, so many posts I can't find this specific one.

I wonder when Billy's phone was moved back to FWF? He was living at FWF. I wonder why he didn't leave his phone all night at FWF where he lived? Seems more suspicious leaving it overnight at Peterson Rd.First time all 4 Wagner phones were together in 2016, so obviously he apparently he wasn't spending the night with Angela very often, if at all.

I could have swore the BCI agent going over phone records even said there was an incoming call to Billy from his mother that night. Maybe mom wondering where her son was since he wasn't home that night?

 

[Pru2U]

I don't think G3 would have wore them. He was supposed to be at Chris Srs that night. He had been in and out of his house many times. I think if anything his footprints there would be expected. I don't think any of them thought they needed tennis shoes because they might make bloody footprints. I think that was a big mistake on their part (whoever stepped in blood and tracked it around).

I really think we will hear about it soon. The defense hasn't brought it up so I suspect that is for a reason. If Billy has say a size 13 foot and those shoes don't go up to size 13 could be as simple as that. I don't see him agreeing to wear them anyway. Angela likely wasn't worried about Billy, she was worried about her boys.

I don’t know if it helps but I do have a partial copy of receipt. I think it was from a tweet. I don’t have any back-up as to where it came from so I can’t post it.

On the receipt, there are 3 pair of shoes

Pair 1 ended with sku #63
Pair 2 ended with sku #62
Pair 3 ended with sku #62
Pair 3 was voided sku #62

Pairs 2&3 are the last 2 items on receipt

She could have bought 3 pair then changed her mind last second
OR pair 2 could have rang up twice by accident.

IMHO, a 6.5-7 ft tall man (Billy) probably needs size 12 or larger. Big man like that needs a solid foundation. May be hard to find shoes that big at Walmart. If he had left one, it would be hard to deny a shoe print that big, wouldn’t it?

Jake did say BW didn’t wear a mask, didn’t he? BW needed to look normal at CR’s. Maybe he wore an old pair & burned them. When JW testified about about burning clothes & shoes, were BW’s things included? Did AC even ask? Sure would’ve been nice to hear the testimony.

 

[Cool Cats]

I could have swore the BCI agent going over phone records even said there was an incoming call to Billy from his mother that night. Maybe mom wondering where her son was since he wasn't home that night?

Well, it is possible that if/when FW called him, his phone was sitting at Peterson Rd.

Here’s who Wagners called day of Pike County massacre

His brother and mother are expected to testify against him soon

www.fox19.com

Witness says it was disturbing that Angela was looking up Facebook searches for Hanna. Even shows Angela was searching for Hanna's friends. "Find Friends." Fourth photo from left.

 

[justtrish]

I've been thinking and going down a rabbit hole, I figured I'd just throw it out there and it's just all my thoughts/opinion, not fact.

I keep thinking about Jake saying after he shot everywhere, he heard Billy shoot twice. That is such a discrepancy to the 9 times we know Chris Sr was shot.

I feel like from his testimony he is minimizing George's role and attempting to take all blame (maybe because he feels guilty it was his decision, he didn't want to back out and George said it wasn't a good idea). He doesn't say George isn't there, but he sorta glosses over where George was or what he was doing.

We know Frankie's house was close. If you were shooting 2 people at 11pm when many people are still awake, wouldn't you want a lookout for Frankie's house? Remember Jake said AFTER Chris and Gary were shot he went over to Frankie's, but the doors were locked. What if he went BEFORE Chris and Gary were shot. What if he walked over there and that is why he doesn't know where the shots came from that hit Chris Sr arm and the door. He doesn't know because he didn't shoot him, George did. He doesn't know how many shots Billy fired after that because he was over at Frankie's house either checking doors or actually killing them then.

There seems to be a large gap in time from then to when we see those trucks going away from Union hill road and then back to it.. then away again and back. I think they were at Chris Sr trying to get into his safe. They covered the bodies because they didn't want to look at them while they were searching for what they wanted.

Just some random things I was pondering over today.

 

[Betty P]

I've been thinking and going down a rabbit hole, I figured I'd just throw it out there and it's just all my thoughts/opinion, not fact.

I keep thinking about Jake saying after he shot everywhere, he heard Billy shoot twice. That is such a discrepancy to the 9 times we know Chris Sr was shot.

I feel like from his testimony he is minimizing George's role and attempting to take all blame (maybe because he feels guilty it was his decision, he didn't want to back out and George said it wasn't a good idea). He doesn't say George isn't there, but he sorta glosses over where George was or what he was doing.

We know Frankie's house was close. If you were shooting 2 people at 11pm when many people are still awake, wouldn't you want a lookout for Frankie's house? Remember Jake said AFTER Chris and Gary were shot he went over to Frankie's, but the doors were locked. What if he went BEFORE Chris and Gary were shot. What if he walked over there and that is why he doesn't know where the shots came from that hit Chris Sr arm and the door. He doesn't know because he didn't shoot him, George did. He doesn't know how many shots Billy fired after that because he was over at Frankie's house either checking doors or actually killing them then.

There seems to be a large gap in time from then to when we see those trucks going away from Union hill road and then back to it.. then away again and back. I think they were at Chris Sr trying to get into his safe. They covered the bodies because they didn't want to look at them while they were searching for what they wanted.

Just some random things I was pondering over today.

Very good reasoning. I agree with all of it.

 

[MCDRAW]

I'll add to my last thought that this motive is so bizarre that I think this is why we had to really hear all the details about people closer to this family knowing how things were. How they were together as a unit, how they all protected the kids, how the past accusations over poisoning and touching the kids happened, what the fallout of those accusations were.. this family was serious about these kids and any perceived by them (key words here) infraction having to do with the kids. EXTREME overreaction each time. I mean they went to the ER to test the kids for drugs after BCI was with them, they chased Tabatha out by Angela going to get her gun, Beth was so scared she went into Walmart and went out the back to a car. It just think it shows that whatever they were doing in that home, scared the crap out of those that left and the only person that stood up to them was Hannah May and her family is gone now. If we didn't hear the other stories, it would be harder to believe 8 people died because a child could possibly be molested at some point in the future.

But really was the motive about a SA that MIGHT happen or was it about control? I think underneath it all, it was really about control. AW may have worried about a SA but she wanted control of them all. JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

From Jake's testimony, appears they were taught crime pays since early childhood:


He told jurors that when he was 10 or 11 years old, his father, Billy Wagner, taught him how to pick locks, then showed him how to break into vending machines, and eventually steal cattle, vehicles and fuel from semi-trucks.

Parker also questioned Jake Wagner about his mother, Angela Wagner.

"Your mother would burn down houses for money?" Parker asked.

"I mean, yes" Jake Wagner answered.

He said one time the family built "a big nice house" using materials that were stolen.

Jake Wagner also said his mother would breed dogs and sell them as purebreds when they were not.

Jake Wagner admits he was raised a criminal, turned into cold-blooded killer

In Pike County on Friday, Jake Wagner admitted to it all.

www.wlwt.com

Published: Oct. 28, 2022 at 1:15 AM PDT|Updated: 8 hours ago


WAVERLY, Ohio (WXIX) - Jake Wagner grew up learning to be a criminal at home from his dad.

Billy Wagner “gave me the basics” how to pick locks when he was as young as 10 years old. “I was taught how to steal trucks. I was very good.”

He also excelled at fires, setting his family’s garage ablaze the first time they set their house ablaze for the insurance money. They burned their home down twice, he said on the stand Friday.
“I was 10 or 11,” he recalled.

The second time they burned their house down, he said, they filled a crock pot with chicken, put it on a propane stove and it spilled over, igniting in flames.

He said they made sure Chris Rhoden Sr. was there as a witness. He was the one who called 911.

In other highlights of Jake Wagner’s testimony earlier Friday:

• He said he was home-schooled by their mother, Angela Wagner. She was supposed to administer their tests, but Jake said his mother filled out his test papers for social studies, history, English and psychology. “I wasn’t doing that crap. I didn’t need it. I was a truck driver and farmer. I didn’t need those things.”
• George Wagner’s attorney on cross got Jake Wagner to admit he can’t remember everything: “My memory is like a jigsaw puzzle with a few extra pieces.”
• Billy Wagner, didn’t believe in going to doctors. When Jake was hurt as a teenager, his father would “use duct tape and black electric tape to mend the wounds.”
• He said his dad sold a trailer full of stolen items for $100,000 in Mexico. When he came home, he brought a suitcase full of $100,000 in cash and gave it to his son to count. He bought Jake Wagner a custom pickup truck that cost $60,000.
• When the Wagners burned down two of their homes for insurance money, did they bury any money there? Jake said no. But: “We did bury money in Mexico.”

‘I was very good’ Jake Wagner says he grew up learning to be a criminal from his dad

The trial will begin its eighth week on Monday at 9 a.m.

www.fox19.com

Jake IMO is a horrible story teller. I'd say AW would have been super pizzed if Billy came home with that amount of money and spent over half of it on Jake. How dare he! I wonder if anyone has found that buried money in Mexico yet? LMAO.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Those "UGLY SHOES" as the Wags called them go up to a size 14 W in men's according to the Walmart site, and yep they are indeed ugly. Link saying Robot or Human? takes you to the page.

Robot or human?

 

[PrairieWind]

^^bbm
Wasn't that statement made by AC in her opening that both defendants (charged with 8 counts of murder) going to trial were each offered life as opposed to potential death penalties? IMO, I'd say that's a real offer!

I don't. He wont get death. Even if he does, it will never be carried out and he knows that.

 

[rsd1200]

I however think differently, you have to believe JW in order to convict, and in the jury instructions the Judge will read and by which the jury has to follow, he will give them an instruction about JW struck a deal for his testimony, and he has gained something in exchange for his testimony, and you (the jury) can consider this fact when weighing up JW testimony,

the defense appears to have moved from their original position in opening that GW wasn't there, I am very confused by this, as you rightly point out just being at the scenes would lead one to think GW could be convicted of one of the underlying felonies and that would lead to him being G of aggravated murder,

and by just being there he could be said to be a part of the conspiracy, so I am very confused as to the defenses position now,

IANAL so I do not know if there is anything that could be argued by the defense that allows for a person to go along to protect somebody, I highly doubt it,

I will watch (don't all laugh in the cheap seats) and wait to see what their next move is

If G4 so much as made a phone call, for JW, or loaned him his sks rifle, allowed him to make a purchase on his credit card, knowing what JW was planning to do, with the info/firearm, or the use of the cc, then G4 would still be in the same predicament.

He can't say he just went along as a bodyguard of sorts. If he truly murdered no one, and he was there, simply to aid JW as a lookout, at DR's, and bodyguard in case Dad decided to just kill JW too, then he was basically a lookout for JW. He's as guilty as JW in that scenario, for sure. That's the way I understood it, at least. (I can't find my link, at the moment, so it's JM2¢ for now.)

 

[rsd1200]

Yeah I tried that, it throws my computer into fits and the video won't play. Was hoping there was an alternative to SVG.

That's the only copy I've found so far. I got no warnings nor computer issues out of it but it was not willing to mesh with my browser. It ran fine on SeaMonkey. If I run across it in a different/better format, I'll point you in its direction!

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I don’t know if it helps but I do have a partial copy of receipt. I think it was from a tweet. I don’t have any back-up as to where it came from so I can’t post it.

On the receipt, there are 3 pair of shoes

Pair 1 ended with sku #63
Pair 2 ended with sku #62
Pair 3 ended with sku #62
Pair 3 was voided sku #62

Pairs 2&3 are the last 2 items on receipt

She could have bought 3 pair then changed her mind last second
OR pair 2 could have rang up twice by accident.

IMHO, a 6.5-7 ft tall man (Billy) probably needs size 12 or larger. Big man like that needs a solid foundation. May be hard to find shoes that big at Walmart. If he had left one, it would be hard to deny a shoe print that big, wouldn’t it?

Jake did say BW didn’t wear a mask, didn’t he? BW needed to look normal at CR’s. Maybe he wore an old pair & burned them. When JW testified about about burning clothes & shoes, were BW’s things included? Did AC even ask? Sure would’ve been nice to hear the testimony.

If Angela is still to testify, maybe that's when we learn about Billy's shoes. It's possible that AC is saving that Information for Billy's trial.