OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#38

[Charliegizmo49]

You’re right!

All MOO, of course. FW seems to me to be the type wanting the farm to exist forever, hence, a perpetual trust. It’s really a very popular instrument & it avoids putting future generations on “easy street, something many elderly wish to avoid.
A perpetual trust (if one is in place) affords FW the opportunity to control HER farm, even in death.

I’m not sure trusts can go on as perpetual anymore. The law changed about 7 years ago and now most if not all states have signed on to an Interstate Estate/Trust Compact. that’s the reason I’m not commenting. I don’t recall if Ohio agreed. Delaware did not at the time due to their affected corporation law.

And simply because I learned what was necessary for passage and fine tuning our Statutes to comply, I depended on real attorneys to draft and offer advice. I didn’t like the issue and thus can’t offer an opinion in an educated way so I remain quiet.

 

[rsd1200]

Ok. I heard the 911 call it was a short time prior to murders. I’ll see if I can find it



Myland. Do you know the Waggies?

Do you know them CG?

 

[Trudie]

I’m not sure trusts can go on as perpetual anymore. The law changed about 7 years ago and now most if not all states have signed on to an Interstate Estate/Trust Compact. that’s the reason I’m not commenting. I don’t recall if Ohio agreed. Delaware did not at the time due to their affected corporation law.

And simply because I learned what was necessary for passage and fine tuning our Statutes to comply, I depended on real attorneys to draft and offer advice. I didn’t like the issue and thus can’t offer an opinion in an educated way so I remain quiet.

SSRN site has an interesting article referencing OH laws/trusts. my attempts to link have not been successful. Sorry. In any case, IMO, it’s safe to assume FW has had adequate legal/financial advice throughout her life. Any attorney serving her would have been most remiss if he didn’t address estate planning.
I’m not offering advice, only my opinion.

 

[Trudie]

I also think AW was surrounded by boys and she wanted her grandaughter all to herself, not share with DR certainly.

I'm a little slow on this, can someone please tell me when the forged custody papers were done? Do you think it was their A plan-- try to steal her with false papers, and B plan was kill the family if papers didn't work?

Think maybe AW feels she did such a fine job raising & home schooling her boys she desired to repeat with another generation?

 

[Satchie]

She left him. She was having another man's baby. And even worse she was involved with another man and talking about marriage. He knew there was no way she was coming back to him. So just like thousands of other psycho ex-husband/boyfriends he decided if he couldn't have her no one could. It literally happens every day in this country seems like. The most dangerous time for a woman is the year after she leaves. He killed HR eight months after she left him.
JMO

Also, knowing young women, I think she probably had some strong opinions about her inlaws, that she didn't try to hide. The W's are so close, she would basically have been living with the other three while JW was away working all the time.

AW telling her how to take care of her baby, young girl who's never lived away from home, there was likely some combustion if HR wasn't as compliant as she initially appeared.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I know you asked Betty but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

I think that pipe dream of moving to Alaska played a big part in it. They watched a little too much of Life Below Zero and dreamed of moving to Alaska, living off the land, chopping their own wood and living free of any mortgages or utility bills. Living free and letting the land provide for them.

I think that dream was in place long before JW and HR split up. But it hit a snag when HR walked out. Maybe she didn't want to leave her own family for a 4000 mile trek to a "maybe we can make it". And she sure as heck wasn't going to let her daughter go without her.

And JW sure as heck wasn't going to leave HR behind to write him off forever and maybe marry another man. Like I said, if he couldn't have her no one could.

I think that dream of Alaska was how he sucked in his parents and his brother. "I am not going to Alaska without my daughter." So they all agreed the only solution was to kill HR. But they knew if they killed HR there was no where to run and nowhere to hide from CR1, FR and KR. So they had to kill them all.

But when they got to Alaska that dream turned to a nightmare because the one thing they didn't count on was how much work it is to live that Alaskan dream. And we have no proof any of them are workaholics or that they were even capable of holding down a job for longer than a few months.

JMO

Hey. In Kenai we lived in a very nice 2 story 4 bedroom cedar home. Until it burned.

Not all Alaskans live off the grid and remember every tv show except ALASKA STATE TROOPERS is embellished and a oil tanker full of drama added.

The Waggies lived in a trailer with a 1,500 sq foot add on. They got good paying work and had it easy. Gas heat, water and a pretty comfortable home.

I believe they found far to much scrutiny after they settled in and people didn’t welcome them as they normally would have. It takes people helping and yes teaching you what to do and what’s a waste of time.

We had that when we moved in 1980. They did not because LE was all over their every move.

Canada would have been a wiser choice because had they stopped, it is extremely rare for extradition to the US without prosecutors removing the death penalty. Canada refuses to extradite on about any charge with the death penalty attached.

New York has done it but I don’t recall other states who were successful. New York manipulated and brought new charges that had new death penalty consequences. Even in the very worst of crimes.

 

[Trudie]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

I think, even with the 4 W's in jail and safely locked up, it would still take some people an awful lot of courage to go to LE. I'd have to give it some real serious thought myself but I would probably eventually go to LE with any information I had. Theoretically, there should be 2 other witnesses to JW's threat... the 3d being Hanna, already murdered.

Anyone “going to LE” would meet with much higher up LE than the locals & any meetings would be held miles away, in an obscure setting. Most likely, a hotel room.

Wonder how many trips the W 4 made past the local SO, to see the vehicles in the parking lot? If they did see a vehicle belonging to anyone they knew, that person is lucky to be alive.

 

[Trudie]

The trailer wasn't purchased by CRSR as new, nor did it get delivered. It had been on that property for a few years. Chris's sister, (Brenda's) in-laws used to own it.. Weisel's.

Yea, I forgot this part. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Do you know them CG?

No. I now go back and forth after calling Kenai home for 35 years.

It’s my personal belief to avoid anyone even close to alledged murders. I am most likely to be on the fact finding side and more apt to also be making certain Ann investigators are protected and have adequate personal and professional resources so they can do their jobs.

As Sheriff Reader said and this is Not verbatim.

Yes I was concerned about retribution, I had seen their work, and I know what they are capable of.

I had helped on a case when first arriving in Alaska. Scared the _____ out of me.

Eight people murdered and the only man charged walked.

In that case a group helped ship food, volunteers and portable facilities into Craig. It was a VERY VERY small community at the time. I’ve also helped to obtain funding and in the construction of domestic shelters for men and women.

So if we are defending my possible bias here, I help where it’s needed. And yes I’ve helped those convicted.

36 years later, still no conviction in Alaska mass murder

Interesting reading. And his family paid a very competent attorney to defend him It’s a very good read.

 

[Trudie]

Hey. In Kenai we lived in a very nice 2 story 4 bedroom cedar home. Until it burned.

Not all Alaskans live off the grid and remember every tv show except ALASKA STATE TROOPERS is embellished and a oil tanker full of drama added.

The Waggies lived in a trailer with a 1,500 sq foot add on. They got good paying work and had it easy. Gas heat, water and a pretty comfortable home.

I believe they found far to much scrutiny after they settled in and people didn’t welcome them as they normally would have. It takes people helping and yes teaching you what to do and what’s a waste of time.

We had that when we moved in 1980. They did not because LE was all over their every move.

Canada would have been a wiser choice because had they stopped, it is extremely rare for extradition to the US without prosecutors removing the death penalty. Canada refuses to extradite on about any charge with the death penalty attached.

New York has done it but I don’t recall other states who were successful. New York manipulated and brought new charges that had new death penalty consequences. Even in the very worst of crimes.

I used to enjoy a real estate program based in Alaska. The houses were homes similar to anywhere USA. The scenery, however, was not. Beautiful beyond belief.

 

[rsd1200]

Anyone “going to LE” would meet with much higher up LE than the locals & any meetings would be held miles away, in an obscure setting. Most likely, a hotel room.

Wonder how many trips the W 4 made past the local SO, to see the vehicles in the parking lot? If they did see a vehicle belonging to anyone they knew, that person is lucky to be alive.

Bbm
Not necessarily. I called the tip line when I contacted LE about something re; the Ws. If I'd been living within a stone's throw, with a family, I might have wrestled more about that call.

 

[Satchie]

RW, IMO, had good reason to act as an informant. Her father has passed, her mother is elderly. There’s a sizable estate at risk. Even with a trust, at some point in time, it would need to be disbursed to heirs. Assuming it’s left to the three kids of FW, civil suits would be placed against Billy’s share, creating a huge mess for R & BW.
I’m guessing the trust has been amended to exclude BW.

It could also be that the initial reaction, that it was unthinkable, impossible, faded and was replaced with thoughts that it was possible. A suspicious person is going to be alert to any clues and comments.

Especially with the W's coming back from Alaska, likely pretty stressed and slowly cracking under the pressure of fear they might be caught, FW being called before the grand jury, a family member or trusted friend might have gone to police, and agreed to wear a wire while they encouraged the others to confide in them. Wouldn't be the first time that happened.

 

[Trudie]

IMO, I think at least one of the W's will take a plea deal.

I think so too, if an offer is extended. And, a plea would certainly benefit the state.
Either way, if guilty, it’s a death sentence. LWOP might give them a few more years existence.
Ahhh, how nice it’d be too see the expressions of the 4 once they are advised of the evidence against them.
I’m curious if they are meeting with their respective legal team on a daily basis or if it’s too early in the game.

 

[Trudie]

Bbm
Not necessarily. I called the tip line when I contacted LE about something re; the Ws. If I'd been living within a stone's throw, with a family, I might have wrestled more about that call.

A call to a tip line is much less dangerous than driving to a small town SO & having the entire town see you there.
An informant with potentially life saving info is going to be questioned at length, face to face.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I used to enjoy a real estate program based in Alaska. The houses were homes similar to anywhere USA. The scenery, however, was not. Beautiful beyond belief.

Beautiful yes. It still amazes me, after learning the hard way, the people who travel who can’t change a tire, who carry no water in the desert and who have no basic survival skills. Maybe no common sense.

Even AAA TAKES TIME to get to you in anemergency.

It took breaking down once between Kenai and Anchorage with small kids to learn a frightening lesson. After that I had one incident where I had to call a tow truck. I never put my life or my Children’s life in danger again.

 

[Trudie]

It could also be that the initial reaction, that it was unthinkable, impossible, faded and was replaced with thoughts that it was possible. A suspicious person is going to be alert to any clues and comments.

Especially with the W's coming back from Alaska, likely pretty stressed and slowly cracking under the pressure of fear they might be caught, FW being called before the grand jury, a family member or trusted friend might have gone to police, and agreed to wear a wire while they encouraged the others to confide in them. Wouldn't be the first time that happened.

Exactly, Satchie. As I stated, I don’t think FW knew of the murderous plot nor do I for one moment, or will I ever agree she would have condoned it. She’s too intelligent to think they would get away with slaying an entire family. Not to mention she’d have no assurance they’d successfully pull off their plan. They could have easily been killed, nothing was set in stone that any or all the Rs would be in bed, sleeping soundly. Things could have played out very differently.

I totally agree someone was “wired”, or used “record” feature on their phone. I also believe the informant was not a one time event. Rather, “Doe” was able to gather bits & pieces, from time to time, sharing with LE. But, w/o LE confirming the conversations, arrests could not be made.


And, of course idk if RW is the informant. However, if she is, she must have been mortified, as well as terrified, wondering if they’d dispose of her.

It’s not unreasonable to think R & FW had many private discussions regarding the future of the 4, the farm, their personal knowledge of the murders/cover up, etc.

In my family, we have things we simply don’t discuss in front of anyone. Since we’re not murderers, I can’t speak to what our post murder behavior might be, but it’s safe for me to say we wouldn’t be discussing it with anyone not intimately involved.

 

[rsd1200]

No. I now go back and forth after calling Kenai home for 35 years.

It’s my personal belief to avoid anyone even close to alledged murders. I am most likely to be on the fact finding side and more apt to also be making certain Ann investigators are protected and have adequate personal and professional resources so they can do their jobs.

As Sheriff Reader said and this is Not verbatim.

Yes I was concerned about retribution, I had seen their work, and I know what they are capable of.

I had helped on a case when first arriving in Alaska. Scared the _____ out of me.

Eight people murdered and the only man charged walked.

In that case a group helped ship food, volunteers and portable facilities into Craig. It was a VERY VERY small community at the time. I’ve also helped to obtain funding and in the construction of domestic shelters for men and women.

So if we are defending my possible bias here, I help where it’s needed. And yes I’ve helped those convicted.

36 years later, still no conviction in Alaska mass murder

Interesting reading. And his family paid a very competent attorney to defend him It’s a very good read.

Not asking about your bias. Asking if you know them. A lot of people are being asked if they know them, for some reason. You'd mentioned that AW has always had "dark thoughts but never acted on them", a few pages back. That sounded kinda like personal knowledge to me. J.s.

 

[rsd1200]

A call to a tip line is much less dangerous than driving to a small town SO & having the entire town see you there.
An informant with potentially life saving info is going to be questioned at length, face to face.

They didn't have FBI to whisk folks away from Piketon, who had tips. Y'all all writing books?

 

[rsd1200]

A call to a tip line is much less dangerous than driving to a small town SO & having the entire town see you there.
An informant with potentially life saving info is going to be questioned at length, face to face.

Note I said if I lived there, my feelings of even making the call may have been different.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I think so too, if an offer is extended. And, a plea would certainly benefit the state.
Either way, if guilty, it’s a death sentence. LWOP might give them a few more years existence.
Ahhh, how nice it’d be too see the expressions of the 4 once they are advised of the evidence against them.
I’m curious if they are meeting with their respective legal team on a daily basis or if it’s too early in the game.

I think although we may not know the specific evidence, LE and everyone involved have a good idea the evidence is overwhelming. I believe Reader and DEWine took their time, assembled the best team nationwide, and did every single thing to the letter of the law. I think the supporting facts to the primary evidence will have even more supporting evidence.

934 days is a lot of man hours. And I think at some point someone came forward that provided lead after lead. And LE followed each until they had every lead answered.

I believe LE WAS DETERMINED BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT GOING TO TOLERATE THE MAGNITUDE of hillbilly justice. And I don’t like the term. It’s the “Not in my community anymore”.

And IMO. There will be more crimes solved. Maybe not directly, but I think others might come forward with information re: other murders and unsolved serious crimes.