OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[Caylee Advocate]

I think every detail will be released at trial. The injuries and complete lack of regard for human life on behalf of the murderers is going to be a very strong angle for the prosecution. I’m sad that the surviving family will have to see all of this and relive all of this again.

There has to be a reason so much was redacted in those autopsies. I can’t put my finger on it but I’m assuming it’s something that is relative to a successful prosecution. IMO, I do feel that there’s a lot that we don’t know and we will probably be stunned when details are released.

Sadly, I agree.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

So do you think the killers took some kind of sick trophy before they left that night?

I’ve honestly never thought about that. It is widely known that a lot of murderers do keep trophy’s of their killings and again that comes back to the psychological aspect.

I’m not sure what I think. I think the bullet wounds and certain aspects of the condition of the victims has something to do with the extensive redaction. I also believe there was intentional over redaction in a sense to cause confusion. Some things that are redacted are easy to tell that it’s simple notations of that specific anatomical site being WNL (within normal limits).

Things that stuck out to me in the autopsies were HMR having a foam cap on her mouth as well as an ovarian artery embolism that was present before death. Both of those notations are concerning to me.

I still do no understand why CR1 was more decomposed than the other 7 victims. I also find it interesting that both HHG and KR has gunshot
wounds to the eye. As far as we know, they are the only two who were shot in the eye.

I’m rambling, I apologize. I could go on and on about different aspects that leave me puzzled. As always, all JMO.

 

[rootbeer]

I don't know but Dr Google says that is in the correct weight range.

This is in response to Puzzle8

 

[Puzzles8]

I’ve honestly never thought about that. It is widely known that a lot of murderers do keep trophy’s of their killings and again that comes back to the psychological aspect.

I’m not sure what I think. I think the bullet wounds and certain aspects of the condition of the victims has something to do with the extensive redaction. I also believe there was intentional over redaction in a sense to cause confusion. Some things that are redacted are easy to tell that it’s simple notations of that specific anatomical site being WNL (within normal limits).

Things that stuck out to me in the autopsies were HMR having a foam cap on her mouth as well as an ovarian artery embolism that was present before death. Both of those notations are concerning to me.

I still do no understand why CR1 was more decomposed than the other 7 victims. I also find it interesting that both HHG and KR has gunshot
wounds to the eye. As far as we know, they are the only two who were shot in the eye.

I’m rambling, I apologize. I could go on and on about different aspects that leave me puzzled. As always, all JMO.

Thank you for reminding me of the review reporters were allowed to do of the preliminary autopsy reports, I went back and read some articles (9/19/2018).
I had not noticed the "foam cap on HMR's lips" or HMR's "ovarian artery embolism". What do you make of that? Good catch!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I’ve honestly never thought about that. It is widely known that a lot of murderers do keep trophy’s of their killings and again that comes back to the psychological aspect.

I’m not sure what I think. I think the bullet wounds and certain aspects of the condition of the victims has something to do with the extensive redaction. I also believe there was intentional over redaction in a sense to cause confusion. Some things that are redacted are easy to tell that it’s simple notations of that specific anatomical site being WNL (within normal limits).

Things that stuck out to me in the autopsies were HMR having a foam cap on her mouth as well as an ovarian artery embolism that was present before death. Both of those notations are concerning to me.

I still do no understand why CR1 was more decomposed than the other 7 victims. I also find it interesting that both HHG and KR has gunshot
wounds to the eye. As far as we know, they are the only two who were shot in the eye.

I’m rambling, I apologize. I could go on and on about different aspects that leave me puzzled. As always, all JMO.

IMO Why does Jake smile so much during his pretrial, it’s like he is making fun of the survivors families letting them know he killed their family and rubbing it in on the prosecution attorneys because he wearing street clothes before the court granted to him?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

IMO Why does Jake smile so much during his pretrial, it’s like he is making fun of the survivors families letting them know he killed their family and rubbing it in on the prosecution attorneys because he wearing street clothes before the court granted to him?

Probably because he can. He comes off to me as someone who does things just because he can, ya know? Like smile while facing 23 counts, participate in the murder of 8 people, lie in media interviews, forge custody documents to try and steal a child. IMO he’s some kind of path-sociopath or psychopath. I dont know which. JMO.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Thank you for reminding me of the review reporters were allowed to do of the preliminary autopsy reports, I went back and read some articles (9/19/2018).
I had not noticed the "foam cap on HMR's lips" or HMR's "ovarian artery embolism". What do you make of that? Good catch!

Those are noted in the actual autopsies. Page 46 and 49. https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

I have to put some thought into my reply on what I think of those two notations. I’ll get back to you tomorrow with my thoughts. Have a nice evening.

 

[ilovepierre]

Thank you ALWAYS for your compassion for the victims and attention to details. (It has not gone unnoticed or unappreciated by many!) To me, if I had recent Hernia surgery, I would expect my toxicology to come back positive for opioids, not because I was an addict, but because it was prescribed by my physician as a part of my post surgical event. Speaking of which, despite my misgivings of opioid abuse, having gone through labor I am not adverse to screaming, "Bring me the best drugs you've got in this place!"

Do we know for a fact that GR had hernia surgery or is it just speculation/assumption based off of the autopsy report? Also, if he did have hernia repair surgery, was it recent enough that any opiates he may have been prescribed were still in his system? Most opiates are only detectable (in the blood) for up to 4 days. That's according to this link: How Long Do Opiates Stay in Your System? Hydrocodone, Morphine, Heroin

JMO and IMO

Edit: not sure why herioin is mentioned in the link since it's not a prescribed opiate....but oh well.

 

[Puzzles8]

Do we know for a fact that GR had hernia surgery or is it just speculation/assumption based off of the autopsy report? Also, if he did have hernia repair surgery, was it recent enough that any opiates he may have been prescribed were still in his system? Most opiates are only detectable (in the blood) for up to 4 days. That's according to this link: How Long Do Opiates Stay in Your System? Hydrocodone, Morphine, Heroin

JMO and IMO

Edit: not sure why herioin is mentioned in the link since it's not a prescribed opiate....but oh well.

It was CRsr (1) that had the internal stitches/mesh(from autopsy reports). We do not know for what purpose or when the stitches/mesh were put in.
Best guess is that they are consistent with hernia surgery.

7 of the toxicology tests came back on 5/20/2016. The 8th (GR's) came back 6/14/2016. We speculated that the extra time might have been needed to test for opioids (either prescribed or heroin).
Hope this helps.

 

[ilovepierre]

It was CRsr (1) that had the internal stitches/mesh(from autopsy reports). We do not know for what purpose or when the stitches/mesh were put in.
Best guess is that they are consistent with hernia surgery.

7 of the toxicology tests came back on 5/20/2016. The 8th (GR's) came back 6/14/2016. We speculated that the extra time might have been needed to test for opioids.
Hope this helps.

Thanks
It's been a while since I looked at the autopsy reports, so I couldn't remember what was all in them. So many names and information to remember.

IMO

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Do we know for a fact that GR had hernia surgery or is it just speculation/assumption based off of the autopsy report? Also, if he did have hernia repair surgery, was it recent enough that any opiates he may have been prescribed were still in his system? Most opiates are only detectable (in the blood) for up to 4 days. That's according to this link: How Long Do Opiates Stay in Your System? Hydrocodone, Morphine, Heroin

JMO and IMO

Edit: not sure why herioin is mentioned in the link since it's not a prescribed opiate....but oh well.

Heroin is mentioned because it’s in the opioid family, whether prescribed or not.

I believe the hernia surgery is simply speculation. There had to be some sort of medical intervention in order for surgical material to be present but that doesn’t mean it was recent or that it was a hernia surgery. JMO.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

It was CRsr (1) that had the internal stitches/mesh(from autopsy reports). We do not know for what purpose or when the stitches/mesh were put in.
Best guess is that they are consistent with hernia surgery.

7 of the toxicology tests came back on 5/20/2016. The 8th (GR's) came back 6/14/2016. We speculated that the extra time might have been needed to test for opioids (either prescribed or heroin).
Hope this helps.

JMO, but I have surgical mesh and it’s in no way related to hernia surgery. It was placed after a surgery to help prevent scar tissue.

 

[rsd1200]

I guess I got lucky with a good fit. I slip off my inside shoes and put on my barn boots any time I go outside when it's this muddy. I live near the river so that's pretty much of the time in the winter. Impossible to till the ground like this.

Good thing about barn boots, they defect snake bites. Probably not as good as Kevlar but you should have seen the size of the copperhead that popped the side of my boot.

So I wear them outside after that. With one kidney can't take chances.

They will leave blisters if you don't wear socks. But other than the time I left out socks I haven't gotten a blister. My current pair is a little uncomfortable where the dog chewed the top, but they don't slow me down. .

So point being if they wore barn boots I think they could have maneuvered around effectively to do the crimes.

Does it say they were all the same size? It's not inconceivable 4 related adults wore a similar size, at least the related guys. My menfolk all wear about the same size. But maybe not me. Maybe AW already had some. If so why 4 pair? Another killer, although they seem sure it's the Fearsome Foursome.

Where does it come from JM wore the same type shoe, or is this speculation that Ws were trying to frame JM by footgear?

BBM
I've speculated that the Ws may have purchased the "specific" shoes from walmart so that the sizes and tread would blend in with the same shoes that the R's and HHG's wore. It's entirely possible, though, that they were trying to frame someone else. DeWine did say, loosely quoting, that they went to great lengths to avoid capture.

I keep a pair of Muck Boots by the door. Comfortable and all-weather. We mostly just have rat snakes around our place but there are rattlesnakes, and copperheads, in parts of the state. Good thing you had yours on that day!

 

[Puzzles8]

I don't know but Dr Google says that is in the correct weight range.

This is in response to Puzzle8

Thank you rootbeer!
To reply to an original post, click on the bottom right blue "reply" button and type away. Then hit "Post Reply" button.

 

[rsd1200]

When the bodies was first found James Manley was questioned by LE about when he first found Dana if he had walked up and around her body, there where footprints like his shoes but if you go back and check the news reports James said he could not go inside the mobile home afraid of what he might see, he couldn’t even go rescue Hanna’s little baby, the killers had to have some kind of shoes like James.

JM seems to be a quiet kinda fella. I don't think that I've read of JM actually making that statement to the press, but, I've seen what his wife, AM, stated;

"He could hear the baby crying and he backed up out of there," said his wife, April Manley, in a separate interview describing what her husband told her. "He didn't want to find his niece like that."

When she says "he backed up out of there", I took that to mean that JM, at the very least, had stepped across the threshold, and into DR's home.

Ohio massacre: 'I was not leaving those babies in there'

 

[rsd1200]

Also right lung is usually heavier, right lung has 3 lobes left 2 lobes- to make room for the heart. Former Nurse with memory issues but do remember that lol Hi guys been reading forever. Will post occasionally.

Hi rootbeer! Interesting info about the heart and lungs. Have you read anything in the redacted autopsies, that sorta sticks out, to you?

 

[rootbeer]

Hi rootbeer! Interesting info about the heart and lungs. Have you read anything in the redacted autopsies, that sorta sticks out, to you?

nothing more than what you guys have already stated. CR had what seems to be early heart blockages IMO and the question with HMR occluded artery, I am not sure if that is normal after giving birth or not. Foam cap on her lips I am assuming comes from getting shot and lung filling with fluid. IMO The reports are so heavily redacted it is hard to make any real informed guess. But I agree with an earlier person about CRsr have lots of real damage from gunshots. This happening is so unfair and evil. No one much less a family should have this happened to them, I am shocked, horrified, and heartsick for them. I'm so glad the Wagners were arrested!

 

[MittenScarpetta]

From what I’ve read about ovarian vein occlusions after birth, the diagnosis appears to be very rare. One source states this happens on 0.05% of vaginal births.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criog/2014/898342/

Symptoms include lower abdominal pain, a fever and leukocytosis (elevated white blood cell count)

Postpartum ovarian vein thrombosis. - PubMed - NCBI

HMR’s autopsy mentions that the entire ovarian vein was blocked. IMO, she wouldn’t have been feeling very well in the many hours/day before her death. While she already would have been feeling sore and fatigued from giving birth, these symptoms should have been exacerbated due to the OVT, along with a fever and her body trying to fight the OVT. As a woman who had given birth just 2.5 years prior with her first child, I’m unsure why HMR didn’t seek medical attention . Perhaps she thought her recovery was just a little tougher the second time around. I don’t know. I guess I just find it out of sorts, especially since an OVT seems to be a rare thing to happen.

 

[IceIce9]

From what I’ve read about ovarian vein occlusions after birth, the diagnosis appears to be very rare. One source states this happens on 0.05% of vaginal births.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/criog/2014/898342/

Symptoms include lower abdominal pain, a fever and leukocytosis (elevated white blood cell count)

Postpartum ovarian vein thrombosis. - PubMed - NCBI

HMR’s autopsy mentions that the entire ovarian vein was blocked. IMO, she wouldn’t have been feeling very well in the many hours/day before her death. While she already would have been feeling sore and fatigued from giving birth, these symptoms should have been exacerbated due to the OVT, along with a fever and her body trying to fight the OVT. As a woman who had given birth just 2.5 years prior with her first child, I’m unsure why HMR didn’t seek medical attention . Perhaps she thought her recovery was just a little tougher the second time around. I don’t know. I guess I just find it out of sorts, especially since an OVT seems to be a rare thing to happen.

I believe HR had a c-section and not a vaginal birth. Ovarian vein occlusion is more likely with c-section. Also if she had a c-section delivery of her first baby that would increase the risk as well.

 

[buttonbaby]

Probably because he can. He comes off to me as someone who does things just because he can, ya know? Like smile while facing 23 counts, participate in the murder of 8 people, lie in media interviews, forge custody documents to try and steal a child. IMO he’s some kind of path-sociopath or psychopath. I dont know which. JMO.

And, my apologies in advance, what the hell is wrong with his hair? Is that weird spot in the front the place where his one sick brain cell resides and misfires? I completely agree that he is some type of "path" too... those were some extremely bizarre smiles and smirks he was throwing off in the courtroom. When I went back and watched some parts of it again, the thought crossed my mind that all those expressions, as bizarre as they seemed, might be some kind of VERY skewed reaction to stress and anxiety. He's NEVER had to deal with it, as his Mommy has always come to the rescue for her baby boy. I went frame by frame at the end, and looked very, very closely at his hands... the same hands that once touched HR... the hands of a stone cold killer.

MOO, MOO, JMO.